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12/27/08: "Get the Artyuhkin Out of Here!" Panthers @ Lightning

View Poll Results: Tonights Winner:
PANTHERS 17 60.71%
lightning 11 39.29%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-28-2008, 06:27 PM
  #201
Laus723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick Cat View Post
He's just being realistic, comparing our team to one of those three is stretching fandom into fantasy.
...but...who...was...comparing...???


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Old
12-28-2008, 06:49 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by johano90 View Post
Not that I disagree with what you're saying but Vokoun doesn't have a NTC.
Umm, yes he does.

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12-28-2008, 06:55 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Laus723 View Post
...but...who...was...comparing...???

I swear, some of you would make excellent politicians if you could present yourself and speak as well as you type. Talk about a spin artist, clearly Laus723 was making a very legitimate point that even the best teams lose now and again. I read his post and you'd have to be off your rocker a bit to even suggest that that post directly compared the panthers to any of those teams.

These inferences some of us are drawing would possibly get you an A if you did that while analyzing some E.A. Poe or the like, but on a message board it's a little ridiculous and a stretch to say the least. Even the Boston Celtics lose games. Yes it's rough to lose to a team in Tampa's position, but as he justly stated, even the worst team statistically can beat the best teams, so obviously it can happen to this above-average (relative to other years), yet still middle-of-the-road panthers team.

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12-28-2008, 07:25 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by PanthersRule96 View Post
I swear, some of you would make excellent politicians if you could present yourself and speak as well as you type. Talk about a spin artist, clearly Laus723 was making a very legitimate point that even the best teams lose now and again. I read his post and you'd have to be off your rocker a bit to even suggest that that post directly compared the panthers to any of those teams.

These inferences some of us are drawing would possibly get you an A if you did that while analyzing some E.A. Poe or the like, but on a message board it's a little ridiculous and a stretch to say the least. Even the Boston Celtics lose games. Yes it's rough to lose to a team in Tampa's position, but as he justly stated, even the worst team statistically can beat the best teams, so obviously it can happen to this above-average (relative to other years), yet still middle-of-the-road panthers team.
Thanks PR, I'm glad it was easy for to see that comparisons had nothing to do with that post. Was simply stating that even the best teams lose to teams they souldn't, it isn't the end of the world.

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12-28-2008, 09:20 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by zeroG View Post
umm. gonna have to take issue with this one, mb

yes, welch did overplay a little and, perhaps given the *extreme* lack of backpressure (how long did it take for mclean and stillman to come back into the picture?), he should've been a bit more conservative and shaded inside but he really did a decent job staying with malone who, thanks the lack of aforementioned backpressure was able to pull off a silly outside-in move. did you see the huge gap there? i actually was admiring welch's blocking technique on the play. in any case, i'll agree that it most certainly was NOT vokoun's fault. he responded to the first shot as he had to. if that puck doesn't bounce back to malone though, it's a fanstastic play by welch and we move on. i think that is what malone was laughing about.
Eh, I disagree. Welch was way too aggressive on that stick check and gave up his angle on Malone and got beat fairly easily. Welch's momentum was going one way, and Malone simply spun around and went back the other way. That play should never happen in the NHL, ever. Once Welch went for the puck I knew he was going to get beat, it was really was a very poor defensive play. I think he fell and tried to block the shot because that's all he could do after getting so out of position. The backpressure from the forwards shouldn't even have been an issue, if Welch played that like a competent defenseman, the play likely would have resulted in nothing. Those are exactly the type of poor, risky defensive plays our blueline wasn't making before the Tampa games. It kind of showed Welch's inexperience I thought. I've liked how the guy has played for the most part this season, but he was brutal on that play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 39ontheline View Post
No you're right. Getting destroyed by the worst team in the nhl is a sign of progress. I want to learn more about this great system that allows the most shots in the NHL yet somehow thats a good thing because there arent a ton of "chances". Like I have been saying forever. If vokoun and anderson dont play well this team is garbage and everyone got to see that against the worst team in the NHL yesterday. It's not real hard to see what Anderson is if you actually watch him play. And guess what? He fails in shootouts with stunning regularity, which last I checked would kind of be a big problem if he was the full time starter.
It's pretty simple really, do you even watch the games? We clearly collapse around the goalie and allow a lot of perimeter shots. With our goalies the chances are extremely low that those low quality shots will result in goals. On our 9-2-3 streak, we didn't give up the slot too often and we cleared the majority of rebounds.

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Old
12-28-2008, 10:58 PM
  #206
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Eh, I disagree. Welch was way too aggressive on that stick check and gave up his angle on Malone and got beat fairly easily. Welch's momentum was going one way, and Malone simply spun around and went back the other way. That play should never happen in the NHL, ever. Once Welch went for the puck I knew he was going to get beat, it was really was a very poor defensive play. I think he fell and tried to block the shot because that's all he could do after getting so out of position. The backpressure from the forwards shouldn't even have been an issue, if Welch played that like a competent defenseman, the play likely would have resulted in nothing. Those are exactly the type of poor, risky defensive plays our blueline wasn't making before the Tampa games. It kind of showed Welch's inexperience I thought. I've liked how the guy has played for the most part this season, but he was brutal on that play.



It's pretty simple really, do you even watch the games? We clearly collapse around the goalie and allow a lot of perimeter shots. With our goalies the chances are extremely low that those low quality shots will result in goals. On our 9-2-3 streak, we didn't give up the slot too often and we cleared the majority of rebounds.
I like when people take a streak over the entire body of work then make excuses on why the entire body of work is a lot worse than the "streak". this system got them 16-14-5 record good for 10th in the east.

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Old
12-29-2008, 12:04 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by MisterBouw View Post
Eh, I disagree. Welch was way too aggressive on that stick check and gave up his angle on Malone and got beat fairly easily. Welch's momentum was going one way, and Malone simply spun around and went back the other way. That play should never happen in the NHL, ever. Once Welch went for the puck I knew he was going to get beat, it was really was a very poor defensive play. I think he fell and tried to block the shot because that's all he could do after getting so out of position. The backpressure from the forwards shouldn't even have been an issue, if Welch played that like a competent defenseman, the play likely would have resulted in nothing. Those are exactly the type of poor, risky defensive plays our blueline wasn't making before the Tampa games. It kind of showed Welch's inexperience I thought. I've liked how the guy has played for the most part this season, but he was brutal on that play.
well, i should hope there'd be some consensus around the fact he's playing better the last few games. on the play in question though (and in every trip up and down the ice in fact), backpressure is most certainly a concern. if the forwards are late in getting back, the attackers have what coaches most desperately want to take away - time and space.

in any case, i just watched the replay again several times. what happened is that welch was isolated and had to essentially defend a 2v1. zeds was coming back hard on the right wing but too late. mccabe had the right wing but welch was alone with the guy driving down the middle (vinny l?) and malone on the left wing. he moved to force the play outside and succeeded but then apparently felt he had to move out and pressure malone, about to shoot from the outside. that was probably a mistake, true. however, he did recover very well, forcing malone to curl and drag and blocking the shot. if that puck doesn't end up back on malone's stick, we all say "nice play" and move on.

bottom line, i think he did ok on the play. was probably overaggressive on the original fake but did recover and should have thwarted the play were it not for a fortunate rebound. imo, of course. i would look further back in the play and try to figure out why TB was able to transition so easily and attack our blue line with speed, time and space.

incidentally, from PDB:

Quote:
“Artyukhin ran (Michael) Frolik and (Tarnasky) answered the bell for us. You have to reward that kind of play.”
so that was what was behind the decision to play nasty over stewie last night. so laus was correct in his analysis. at least in terms of how coach viewed it.

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Old
12-29-2008, 09:05 AM
  #208
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New GDT up.

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