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Old
12-30-2008, 06:22 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I was really impressed with him last year, but so far this year, I've only seen flashes of what he could do. He is still very young and I'm certainly not ready to give up on him, but I do think that he needs to be sent down to Hamilton to work on his game, on his confidence for a while.

Tonight again, he was directly responsible for the two goals against us by turning the puck over. Give the guy a chance to play major minutes in Hamilton and call him up in a couple of months.

My two cents.
I agree he would probably develop quicker if he saw more ice time, and he would get
that in Hamilton. But I don't blame him for his play as of late, hes been used inconsistently with different line mates and limited ice time, I think its hard to play well or break into the league when that happens. I would love to see him get solid
2nd line time but we just have way too many young guys viing for jobs. He reminds me of Grabovski. We never were able to show him any ice time and then when he finally gets it in Toronto he starts scoring.

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12-30-2008, 06:26 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I was really impressed with him last year, but so far this year, I've only seen flashes of what he could do. He is still very young and I'm certainly not ready to give up on him, but I do think that he needs to be sent down to Hamilton to work on his game, on his confidence for a while.

Tonight again, he was directly responsible for the two goals against us by turning the puck over. Give the guy a chance to play major minutes in Hamilton and call him up in a couple of months.

My two cents.
It's 2 things.

1-he hasn't taken a step forward from last year and he hasn't shown up every night(not playing with Koivu has hurt his stats a bit too)

2-some people had unrealistic expectations of him putting up 80-90 points, unless he has a meteoric rise he probably never reaches that level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
Agreed... Begin is pretty much useless when we talk about offensive skills that it hurts badly Sergei and Ben... They can't create anything with this headless chicken playing on their line...

I never I thought that I'm gonna say this one day, but I miss Christopher "Stone Hands" Higgins... At least, he's a little bit better than Begin...


Sergei is lucky he is still in the NHl with the poor effort he's given so far this year. He's gotten tons of opportunities with good linemates and on the PP and has not brought the effort needed.

Insulting Begin shows you are a puckbunny and don't appreciate guys that put it on the line every night for the team. If your precious little Sergei played with half the heart Begin does he'd have 2-3 times the points he has.

It's funny you call Higgins "stone hands" as his hands are as good as your favorite little player, put the pom poms away for a bit.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 12-30-2008 at 09:56 AM.
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12-30-2008, 07:41 AM
  #28
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Maybe S.Kostitsyn weighs down Begin a little bit. He wants to play a crash and bang game with th epuck staying in a tight area from the corners to th einner arc of the circles. Chipchura, BGL, TK, and Lapierre are all better suited to what this line wants to accomplish. Begib's experience's is actually needed to keep his younger linemates out of trouble.

Granted, SK's creativity gets stifled in this situation, but with the injuries and his rough start, there aren't better options. It's about what's best for the team not some kid's fantasy stats.

Tanguay's acquisition hurts him a bit, I think, you have a more experienced winger, who plays a similar game, perimeter playmaking, good skills, both guys play better when they go to the net, but Tanguay will have to play miserably for S.Kost to assume his minutes.

I think he'll be fine, allowing myself to sour on a player because someone has a schoolgirl crush on him would make me kind of pathetic wouldn't it ?

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12-30-2008, 08:57 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by VAN-HAB View Post
Sergei has nothing to learn in Hamilton, that is really stupid. He needs better players to play with, Maxwell is really bad, and Begin is not suited to play with Sergei.
Say what you want, but he wasn't playing any better when he took over his brother's spot on another line when Andrei was out. Let's call a spade a spade here folks, he hasn't played well overall this season.

But again, I insist in saying that he's still young and will/should develop into a heck of a hockey player, but he needs quality minutes in Hamilton for a while.

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12-30-2008, 09:13 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Say what you want, but he wasn't playing any better when he took over his brother's spot on another line when Andrei was out. Let's call a spade a spade here folks, he hasn't played well overall this season.

But again, I insist in saying that he's still young and will/should develop into a heck of a hockey player, but he needs quality minutes in Hamilton for a while.
I think that the process of how to get a player going depends on feel, and I don't think playing him 24 minutes in Hamilton would have the desired result. I won't try and give you anything concrete because I'd be making it up. I just don't think he has to learn anything other than how to make the most of the icetime he gets. Playing in Florida, he could easily play on a top line, play big minutes, produce more, but here he has to seize the opportunity.

I don't have a problem with his status right now. If he thinks he's too big to play with the likes of Begin, he needs the dose of humble pie that he's getting. Players become winners when they find ways to contribute regardless of their role and embrace what the team is doing.

I think that a line of Begin,Chipchura and young K. would be an effective short term line. Carbo likes the kid, he likes players that mix skill with some attitude, but realizes that it's a process. I think he's fine right now, let them go. Again, it's not about whether he deserves to play with Lang,Pleks or whoever, it isn't relevant to team success.

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12-30-2008, 09:15 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Dunlop View Post
It was Andrei and not sergei for the first goal..............
Edit:Sergei wasn't even on the ice
And you can easily argue that the second goal was more of Maxwell's fault.

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12-30-2008, 10:47 AM
  #32
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are you kidding? making fancy drop passes in your slot is a dumb move any way you cut it. Sergei has been making way too many dumb moves in the last 2 months, coupled with lack of production and he's definitely lucky to be in the NHL. When Higgins and Koivu are back the Habs would be crazy to keep him over D'Ago, a guy with better hands who drives the net as opposed to Sergei's overly fancy and error prone perimeter game.

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12-30-2008, 10:48 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Say what you want, but he wasn't playing any better when he took over his brother's spot on another line when Andrei was out. Let's call a spade a spade here folks, he hasn't played well overall this season.

But again, I insist in saying that he's still young and will/should develop into a heck of a hockey player, but he needs quality minutes in Hamilton for a while.
Has the kid done as well as folks expected this Year? No. No doubt about it

Has the team done as well offensively as we expected this year? No. No doubt about it.

Right now I see he is 8th in scoring on the team. 8th in goals. Great? no. Bad? no

I'm not sure what "opportunity" to play in his brothers spot really means, because until recently AK (who has only 4 more points in one less game) struggled too. And that opportunity was not long or recognizable.

Kovalev is our top scorer and just about every network has been done pieces on his lack of production. That is our top guy right now.

It's kind of hard to rack up points when nobody is scoring. We are at 13th in goals. Toronto is at 9th to put it in perspective.

The whole team is under-producing. If that was not the case I think this thread would not exist.

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12-30-2008, 11:23 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
Has the kid done as well as folks expected this Year? No. No doubt about it

Has the team done as well offensively as we expected this year? No. No doubt about it.

Right now I see he is 8th in scoring on the team. 8th in goals. Great? no. Bad? no

I'm not sure what "opportunity" to play in his brothers spot really means, because until recently AK (who has only 4 more points in one less game) struggled too. And that opportunity was not long or recognizable.

Kovalev is our top scorer and just about every network has been done pieces on his lack of production. That is our top guy right now.

It's kind of hard to rack up points when nobody is scoring. We are at 13th in goals. Toronto is at 9th to put it in perspective.

The whole team is under-producing. If that was not the case I think this thread would not exist.
The powerplay is the culprit here. The team is playing much better 5vs5 this year and there is no problem in lowering the GF total if the GA is reduced by a greater margin. Once (or if) the PP gets going again, the individual statistics will come.

Myself, I could care less how many goals we score as long as we win. Its a mistake to automatically relate goal-scoring to winning. ATL and TOR both score more goals than MTL so far this year but are in the bottom third of the league defensively.

Come playoffs if MTL is a team that plays well 5 on 5 with a good defensive game it will translate into more success than a highscoring team dependent on PP success which can dry up at the worst times (see MTL vs PHI last year).

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12-30-2008, 11:24 AM
  #35
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I think Komi needs to crack him again

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12-30-2008, 11:37 AM
  #36
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You guys are all missing the elephant in the room here...Sergei's play dropped off a cliff the second his big brother got a forearm shiver to the head...without any doubt that was the turning point in his season.

I don't know if he decided to play it a little safer, got a little scared or what...but if he was giving 100% at the beginning of the year, he started playing more like 80% after that hit.

It's obvious that his problems are completely mental, and he just needs to get back to that fearless style of play we've come to expect.

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12-30-2008, 11:46 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by yukoner View Post
You guys are all missing the elephant in the room here...Sergei's play dropped off a cliff the second his big brother got a forearm shiver to the head...without any doubt that was the turning point in his season.

I don't know if he decided to play it a little safer, got a little scared or what...but if he was giving 100% at the beginning of the year, he started playing more like 80% after that hit.

It's obvious that his problems are completely mental, and he just needs to get back to that fearless style of play we've come to expect.
This is the NHl not Dr. Phil. He can go work out his mental problems in hamilton.

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12-30-2008, 12:13 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I beg to differ. It looks as though it's a confidence issue and being a go-to guy in Hamilton for a month or two, playing 20 minutes a game, could do wonders for his game. Just look at D'Agostini.
You may certainly differ, I don't see it that way at all. I don't think Sergei is lacking in confidence at all -- he's never been a guy to get down on himself. He's just going through the rough patches young players do. He had a pretty good ride last year and played quite well, teamed up with the player on the team most likely to ease him into the league (Saku Koivu, who could make my Dad look like a star).

He hasn't been so protected this year, and expectations are high even though he didn't play a full year last year. He looked much better last year than Ryder, and that's really why he's on the team & Ryder is not. So he's just going through his paces. I think sending him down may actually do the harm and finally kill his confidence.

Like with Plekanec, the team just needs to let him play though this period and see how he's doing in March.

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12-30-2008, 12:17 PM
  #39
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hell i still haven't given up on latendresse. i still believe he's a 30 goal scorer...so for sure i haven't given up on Skost...

he's still very young and we've all seen his incredible vision. He just needs to work harder. Finishing the year in hamilton could be good for him.

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12-30-2008, 01:15 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Say what you want, but he wasn't playing any better when he took over his brother's spot on another line when Andrei was out. Let's call a spade a spade here folks, he hasn't played well overall this season.

But again, I insist in saying that he's still young and will/should develop into a heck of a hockey player, but he needs quality minutes in Hamilton for a while.
What are you talking about ?! He had 4 points in 3 games playing with them and he was probably the best player on that line. Remember last week when everybody wanted to throw PLekanec out of this town ?! And Kovalev was still in his big slump. Sergei took control over that line and played really good.

Clearly, people on this board has short memories...



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12-30-2008, 01:24 PM
  #41
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He's a kid. Sophmore slump. He'll figure it out...he's shown he can be a force as a kid on a stacked team in the playoffs. He will be a future core piece once Koivu, Kovalev etc leave town.

It is all in his head, he needs to keep things at a even keel and not ride too many highs or lows. That's what I have observed.

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12-30-2008, 01:44 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by JrHockeyFan View Post
Has the kid done as well as folks expected this Year? No. No doubt about it

Has the team done as well offensively as we expected this year? No. No doubt about it.

Right now I see he is 8th in scoring on the team. 8th in goals. Great? no. Bad? no

I'm not sure what "opportunity" to play in his brothers spot really means, because until recently AK (who has only 4 more points in one less game) struggled too. And that opportunity was not long or recognizable.

Kovalev is our top scorer and just about every network has been done pieces on his lack of production. That is our top guy right now.

It's kind of hard to rack up points when nobody is scoring. We are at 13th in goals. Toronto is at 9th to put it in perspective.

The whole team is under-producing. If that was not the case I think this thread would not exist.
8th in goals would be acceptable if the Habs were scoring goals at last season's rate. This season, it's not so hot, especially since Higgins has missed quite a few games and d'Agostini has played only a few.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yukoner View Post
You guys are all missing the elephant in the room here...Sergei's play dropped off a cliff the second his big brother got a forearm shiver to the head...without any doubt that was the turning point in his season.

I don't know if he decided to play it a little safer, got a little scared or what...but if he was giving 100% at the beginning of the year, he started playing more like 80% after that hit.

It's obvious that his problems are completely mental, and he just needs to get back to that fearless style of play we've come to expect.
I don't agree with your chronology and the link to Sauer's hit on Andrei. He started to tail off after the opening laugher against Toronto, which was his best game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heske_44 View Post
He's a kid. Sophmore slump. He'll figure it out...he's shown he can be a force as a kid on a stacked team in the playoffs. He will be a future core piece once Koivu, Kovalev etc leave town.

It is all in his head, he needs to keep things at a even keel and not ride too many highs or lows. That's what I have observed.

I agree he's having a sophomore slump and he has obvious talent. But I can't close my eyes to the fact that he isn't delivering what he promised. The predictions on this board of at least 60 points and as high as 80 were outlandish.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 12-30-2008 at 03:17 PM.
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12-30-2008, 03:50 PM
  #43
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I think that the process of how to get a player going depends on feel, and I don't think playing him 24 minutes in Hamilton would have the desired result. I won't try and give you anything concrete because I'd be making it up. I just don't think he has to learn anything other than how to make the most of the icetime he gets. Playing in Florida, he could easily play on a top line, play big minutes, produce more, but here he has to seize the opportunity.

I don't have a problem with his status right now. If he thinks he's too big to play with the likes of Begin, he needs the dose of humble pie that he's getting. Players become winners when they find ways to contribute regardless of their role and embrace what the team is doing.

I think that a line of Begin,Chipchura and young K. would be an effective short term line. Carbo likes the kid, he likes players that mix skill with some attitude, but realizes that it's a process. I think he's fine right now, let them go. Again, it's not about whether he deserves to play with Lang,Pleks or whoever, it isn't relevant to team success.
I do agree with most of your post, with the exception of the comment in bold. True that he doesn't have much to "learn" in Hamilton, but his problem is between the ears as we know that he has the necessary talent to succeed. What he doesn't have is confidence and that's where playing more minutes, more quality minutes would or could do wonders for him. I'm not talking about a permanent reassignment here, but a stint of 4-6 weeks would do him some good in my opinion.

We have the luxury of being able to do just that with him as he doesn't have to clear waivers. Unfortunately, the same can't be said of Latendresse as I also think that he could use the same refresher (and so does O'Byrne).

From reading some of your posts and from your nickname on this board, you seem like a "mature" person (age-wise), so you must recall that the Habs of old used to use this strategy to their advantage on a regular basis. They used to either recall some young guys, give them a taste of the 5 star hotels and first class flights, then send them back to use the experience as a motivation. They've also done the opposite in sending young players back down for the same reason. It's a good motivation tool.

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12-30-2008, 07:29 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
8th in goals would be acceptable if the Habs were scoring goals at last season's rate. This season, it's not so hot, especially since Higgins has missed quite a few games and d'Agostini has played only a few.
Well isn't that exactly the problem. Nobody is scoring a lot, so how is somebody going to build any respectable point totals? You can't pick one guy out of the bunch and say he isn't scoring when it is a team problem

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Originally Posted by Krautso View Post
The powerplay is the culprit here. The team is playing much better 5vs5 this year and there is no problem in lowering the GF total if the GA is reduced by a greater margin. Once (or if) the PP gets going again, the individual statistics will come.

Myself, I could care less how many goals we score as long as we win. Its a mistake to automatically relate goal-scoring to winning. ATL and TOR both score more goals than MTL so far this year but are in the bottom third of the league defensively.

Come playoffs if MTL is a team that plays well 5 on 5 with a good defensive game it will translate into more success than a highscoring team dependent on PP success which can dry up at the worst times (see MTL vs PHI last year).
This trend worries me because it reminds me of the past scoring troubles which equals win one lose one type results.

Winning tight games in a balancing act will get you so far. Maybe like 2nd round in the playoffs?

The defensive mentality is good. But the lack of goals is not.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 12-30-2008 at 07:34 PM.
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12-30-2008, 09:20 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I do agree with most of your post, with the exception of the comment in bold. True that he doesn't have much to "learn" in Hamilton, but his problem is between the ears as we know that he has the necessary talent to succeed. What he doesn't have is confidence and that's where playing more minutes, more quality minutes would or could do wonders for him. I'm not talking about a permanent reassignment here, but a stint of 4-6 weeks would do him some good in my opinion.

We have the luxury of being able to do just that with him as he doesn't have to clear waivers. Unfortunately, the same can't be said of Latendresse as I also think that he could use the same refresher (and so does O'Byrne).

From reading some of your posts and from your nickname on this board, you seem like a "mature" person (age-wise), so you must recall that the Habs of old used to use this strategy to their advantage on a regular basis. They used to either recall some young guys, give them a taste of the 5 star hotels and first class flights, then send them back to use the experience as a motivation. They've also done the opposite in sending young players back down for the same reason. It's a good motivation tool.
Just instinct, but I think they might not get the result they're looking for. The team has played well depsite some key guys being hurt, mainly due to guys working hard, TK, Lapierre,Lats,Begin, mixed with the talent of some of the others, SK has to buy into the get your nose dirty style of play. He doesn't have to grind it out, but he has to battle more. I guess how he practices really would tell us more. I think he's a Carbo favourite though and that won't hurt.

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12-31-2008, 12:03 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post

I agree he's having a sophomore slump and he has obvious talent. But I can't close my eyes to the fact that he isn't delivering what he promised. The predictions on this board of at least 60 points and as high as 80 were outlandish.
No def don't close your eyes, just recognize the situation and construct an alternative plan. In this case I guess more patience. Not directed at you just a general comment.

Personally I watched him quite a bit through his emergence the past couple of seasons and I had him pegged for 40-45 points this year. Essentially the same pace as last year but drawn out over the course of his first full season.

I do agree expectations were far too high. A lot of people just don't respect how difficult and what type of rare talent can put up 80 points as a 21 year old.

Andrei on the other hand I expected 75+ from. He's really been the disappointment between the two for me. He's started to pick it up as of late but before his first hit he wasn't doing a whole lot but he gets a bailout since Kovalev and Plekanec certainly were not playing any better.

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