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Old
12-30-2008, 11:34 AM
  #51
Iwishihadacup
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Old
12-30-2008, 12:00 PM
  #52
Ozymandias
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
The guy is a rookie who showed some good jump, just what the TEAM needed at the time. Now, the reality, the grind of everyday playing has caught up.

It is his time to work through it. And...it's normal and OK.

If the TEAM needs him to develop more in Hamilton, so be it.

I repeat, WHAT THE TEAM NEEDS.

When Saku, Higgins, Laraque are back, they get their spots back simple. If they suck for long periods, they are sat down or traded. This is because the TEAM comes first.


Hero worship is for children.

Team first.

Don't we all know for whom that was meant....

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Old
12-30-2008, 12:19 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by kostitsyn1489 View Post
Hum, cause of what? He scored 4 goals in 4 games so he's better then Higgins who was on a scoring drought? What next, he keeps the pace he had in his last 8 games, which is the pace of a 20 goals scorer then he sturrgle to find the back of the net, a 20 goals scorer that is ona bad streak doesnt score often so we call up Danny Kristo hoping he scores 4 goals in 4 games so we can say he's better then D'ago?

Damn.
This has nothing to do with crowning a new king or anything. Right now, you have to look at the facts:

D'agostini
GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW S S%
13 6 2 8 1 4 0 0 1 39 15.4

Higgins
GP G A P +/- PIM PP SH GW S S%
21 5 4 9 4 6 0 1 1 52 9.6

Wich player would you rather have playing RIGHT NOW (if Higgins wasn't injured of course).

As much as I like Higgins (see my name), D'agostini has a better nose for the net, positions himself equally as well as Higgins and has unique and complementary style that adds to the depth of this team.

With that being said, Higgins has proven that he can also be a good hockey player, but I think that Matt can play the same role as Higgins and he will only get better with time. All that while being cheaper than Higgins.

And I haven't even started to talk about his wrist shot.

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Old
12-30-2008, 12:19 PM
  #54
Joe Cole
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Originally Posted by HIGGINS! View Post
D'agostini will stay.



The team is better with D'agostini than with Higgins I am afraid.


Then so be it. Trade Higgins.

The problem with everyone seems to be that they think player first, team second.

Take the names offf of the jersey.

Higgins, like any other player, is an asset. If you can trade an asset for a better asset, then you are ahead and you win.

The goal is to win (now and down the road), not to have a team of your favorite players.

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Old
12-30-2008, 12:21 PM
  #55
Pascal
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i agree, waive him. he's done.

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Old
12-30-2008, 12:22 PM
  #56
Boulette Cannon
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Don't we all know for whom that was meant....
Let me guess


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Old
12-30-2008, 12:26 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
i agree, waive him. he's done.
Yeah, definitely has no place on this team now that King D'agostini is here.

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12-30-2008, 12:41 PM
  #58
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Funny for a franchise that hasn't won a Stanley Cup since 1993 is trying to have a "What have you done for me lately?" attitude in terms of its players.

D'Agostini was on fire but has cooled off? AHL him. Oh but wait, Higgins is coming back. Higgins has been injured and scored a hat trick this year but cooled off after the hatty. He also seems to be a valuable commodity around the league, NO IDEA WHY THAT IS since we want to toss him away for a rookie, but thats cool, what has Higgins done for us lately? Posts. Ship him away.

A ****ing joke this fanbase can be sometimes. How about you go around the league and ask what other teams feel about Christopher Higgins. He's probably a lot more wanted by their fans than our fans. Why? Because they understand what he does WITHOUT THE PUCK as much as he does WITH THE PUCK.

Some people need to stop watching hockey. Period.

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Old
12-30-2008, 12:47 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Funny for a franchise that hasn't won a Stanley Cup since 1993 is trying to have a "What have you done for me lately?" attitude in terms of its players.

D'Agostini was on fire but has cooled off? AHL him. Oh but wait, Higgins is coming back. Higgins has been injured and scored a hat trick this year but cooled off after the hatty. He also seems to be a valuable commodity around the league, NO IDEA WHY THAT IS since we want to toss him away for a rookie, but thats cool, what has Higgins done for us lately? Posts. Ship him away.

A ****ing joke this fanbase can be sometimes. How about you go around the league and ask what other teams feel about Christopher Higgins. He's probably a lot more wanted by their fans than our fans. Why? Because they understand what he does WITHOUT THE PUCK as much as he does WITH THE PUCK.

Some people need to stop watching hockey. Period.
Bang on.

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Old
12-30-2008, 12:49 PM
  #60
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cant kick people away cause they slip into a couple game goaless drought , or we would have no one on the team . Besides when some people are slumping other stand up , and vice versa , as long as the wins come and the team can throw in goals why complain if dago slows down on point production ? its not like he is floating around out there ..

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Old
12-30-2008, 12:56 PM
  #61
Kimota
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Wow people are saying that D'Agostini has slowed down quite a bit(because guess what folks, he did! we have no imagined this) and the blind followers are jumping on his defence with nothing to show for.

Nobody said he was a bum. Just that he slowed down and he has stopped being this marvel on ice. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Old
12-30-2008, 01:07 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Why? Because they understand what he does WITHOUT THE PUCK as much as he does WITH THE PUCK.
Is this "how to watch hockey 101?". Of course habs fans never look at the guys without the puck! Duh! They just want to see Kovalev deke around everyone on the ice.

I won't even post the little "help" smilie.

D'agostini has created many turnovers that led to offensive rushes in his 13 games played and is decent at defensive positionning (keep in mind he's still a rookie and has alot to learn). He is also really good at cutting passing lanes.

This is not about who will win Higgins spot (because we all know he will reclaim it by working his a$$ off as he usually does when he comes back). This is more of a comparison between two "similar" players and what they bring to the table.

I personally think D'agostini will develop into a better offensive player than Higgins without being a defensive liability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Some people need to stop watching hockey. Period.
Some have to take a deep breath and calm down.


Last edited by Boulette Cannon: 12-30-2008 at 01:14 PM.
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Old
12-30-2008, 01:08 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Wow people are saying that D'Agostini has slowed down quite a bit(because guess what folks, he did! we have no imagined this) and the blind followers are jumping on his defence with nothing to show for.

Nobody said he was a bum. Just that he slowed down and he has stopped being this marvel on ice. Nothing more, nothing less.
the OP clearly said he would be the first head rolling when koivu comes back

ahead of Maxwell and S kost and O'Byrne etc etc

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Old
12-30-2008, 01:12 PM
  #64
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I'm not gonna bash the entire fanbase like some did but D'Agostini must stay. Yes his production went down in the last games but he's still creating scoring chances with his speed and he goes to the net like a vet. Once Saku is back im sure Carbo will use them together again.

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Old
12-30-2008, 01:15 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
I'm not gonna bash the entire fanbase like some did but D'Agostini must stay. Yes his production went down in the last games but he's still creating scoring chances with his speed and he goes to the net like a vet. Once Saku is back im sure Carbo will use them together again.
This is what I'm waiting for. It'll be a good test to see if the chemistry will still be there.

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Old
12-30-2008, 01:16 PM
  #66
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
the OP clearly said he would be the first head rolling when koivu comes back

ahead of Maxwell and S kost and O'Byrne etc etc
I believe he used Higgins, not koivu. While I don't agree with the OP, the player returning makes a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_Spirit View Post
I'm not gonna bash the entire fanbase like some did but D'Agostini must stay. Yes his production went down in the last games but he's still creating scoring chances with his speed and he goes to the net like a vet. Once Saku is back im sure Carbo will use them together again.
I think everybody not named alex kovalev does better with Saku. There could only be two guys on his line. It's good he can revive people, kind of bad he's the only one who can get the most out of scorers(not to say d'ags is playing bad or anything, but you are indirectly suggesting he would be better off with saku).


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 12-30-2008 at 01:49 PM.
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Old
12-30-2008, 01:19 PM
  #67
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D'Ago hasnt scored in 2 games, and everybody wants to send him down. after scoring a breakaway against Philly and a goal against Carolina.


What's wrong with the people on this forum? Send Tanguay down before you send D'Ago down lol

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Old
12-30-2008, 01:38 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
Then so be it. Trade Higgins.

The problem with everyone seems to be that they think player first, team second.

Take the names offf of the jersey.

Higgins, like any other player, is an asset. If you can trade an asset for a better asset, then you are ahead and you win.

The goal is to win (now and down the road), not to have a team of your favorite players.
Sure I'd trade Higgins. I'd trade 75% of the roster players under two conditions:
1) A better (and not too old and not too close to UFA status) player comes in.

2) Gainey isn't too generous. He mustn't heap on 3 or 4 players/ prospects + a first rounder to get anyone who isn't of the caliber of an Ovechkin or a Malkin. For example, much as I like him, Bouwmeester isn't worth 3 or 4 important players + a first rounder. Neither is Lecavalier or Gaborik or Hossa.

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Old
12-30-2008, 01:39 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
the OP clearly said he would be the first head rolling when koivu comes back

ahead of Maxwell and S kost and O'Byrne etc etc
We have four guys hurt right now: Koivu, Higgins, Laraque, Dandenault,
and only two guys called up: d'Ago and Maxwell.

Maxwell might go back as soon as either Koivu or Higgins come back, though we could welcome back TWO guys and still not send anyone down.

Certainly, O'Byrne is vulnerable once Dandy is back, and Ben is on borrowed time.

No one else need to to Hamilton, therefore essentially, compared to earlier when we had all 23 roster guys playing, D'Ago would replace O'Byrne with Dandy moving to D.

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Old
12-30-2008, 02:32 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by HIGGINS! View Post
I personally think D'agostini will develop into a better offensive player than Higgins without being a defensive liability.
I agree. He is one of the two, may be three, natural scorers on the team - Andrey and Lats are the others, but Lats has some more development ahead of him - while Higgins is a solid all around forward who is more of a light powerforward. But D'Ago is a better scorer and MaxPac is more of a powerforward than Higgins. I would hate to see him go but in order to get a quality player - such as JayBo - Chris is the most marketable asset that we can afford to part with without creating a big whole on the roster. Yes, it would be nice to offer Kosto or Boulion as the centerpiece but it just won't happen.

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Old
12-30-2008, 02:36 PM
  #71
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But D'Ago is a better scorer and MaxPac is more of a powerforward than Higgins.
Are you comparing two rookies to a guy who scored 27 goals last year, one more than Andrei Kostitsyn, who played on the same line as 70 points Plekanec and "Comeback Player of the Year" Alex Kovalev?

Seriously. It's like people forget these things due to a few posts.

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12-30-2008, 02:57 PM
  #72
Ozymandias
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Are you comparing two rookies to a guy who scored 27 goals last year, one more than Andrei Kostitsyn, who played on the same line as 70 points Plekanec and "Comeback Player of the Year" Alex Kovalev?

Seriously. It's like people forget these things due to a few posts.
ANd people often forget that Chris had one hell of a scoring streak at the end of his rookie season, and before we can annoint Daggs as the better scorer of the two, Daggs will have to be as good on a long stretch of games and score at least 25 goals in a full season. Until then, yes like most I am excited about Daggs, but I am far from ready to crown him as better than a lot of players on the team.

His comment reeks of the "what have you done for me lately" mentality which I utterly loathe.

Daggs, 6 goals in 12 games, in the NHL. 58 goals in 159 AHL games.

Higgy, goes on a tear at the end of his rookie season till he is injured at the beginning of his sophomore season, scoring 26 goals in 45 games in that span, has 77 goals in 246 NHL games (for an average of 25,66 goals per full season), 55 goals in 157 AHL games.

Yet, altho one has far more experience, has proven far more, played the exact same game as the other when everybody was impressed with him, now that the new saveur du jour is in town with 6 goals in 12 games, which it seems should now be regarded as good as having proven that you can score 20 goals in multiple seasons, the player with the less experience but a flamboyant 6 goals in 12 games should be regarded as much better.

Some people are so....

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Old
12-30-2008, 03:24 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Lone Rogue View Post
Are you comparing two rookies to a guy who scored 27 goals last year, one more than Andrei Kostitsyn, who played on the same line as 70 points Plekanec and "Comeback Player of the Year" Alex Kovalev?
I am definitely not comparing MaxPac of today - a prospect who hasn't played a game in the NHL yet - to an established NHLer. I am trying to project the skillset that MaxPac will bring in the near future(likely next season) to make up for what Chris brings and it is fair to assume that Max can bring that and down the road become even more effective player due to his combo of size, skating, vision and hands.
As for Andrey, you got it wrong if you are comparing Higgins to Andrey or implying that Andrey was the beneficiary of playing on that line. While Higgins is a solid all-around player that I like, Andrey is a difference maker. To quote (roughly) Red Fisher, Andrey “scores highlight-real goals and makes highlight-real plays.” And that line was going nowhere until Andrey replaced Lats last season and made three terrific setups in two games that really launched that line. And – even more impressive – he was playing in his first full season in the NHL. It was Plecs who was the main beneficiary playing with two very gifted players – but he was good enough to play at that level.
And now to the real issue: whom else would you trade from the roster to get an impact player without creating a big hole now or in the years to come?

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Old
12-30-2008, 04:00 PM
  #74
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And now to the real issue: whom else would you trade from the roster to get an impact player without creating a big hole now or in the years to come?
I don't think we need to get the same level of "impact player" you think we need. I don't believe we need a Marian Gaborik or Jay Boumeester in this club. Sure it'd be great, but I don't believe it is a serious need.

We have four extremely dependable blueliners in Andrei Markov, Mike Komisarek, Roman Hamrlik and Josh Gorges. That leaves Franky Bouillon, Mathieu Dandenault, Ryan O'Byrne and Patrice Brisebois rounding out the Bottom three spots, one made only for injuries and stoppage gaps. I'd rather get a guy like Jordan Leopold or Sean O'Donnell, someone who does a respectable job on the blue line and would make a lesser teams Top 4 than go all out on a JayBo and lose Chris Higgins or Sergei Kostitsyn.

With a healthy lineup on forward, and if everyone is kicking on all cylinders, you got probably the deepest and most impactful 14 forwards on any NHL team. When you have difference makers on your third line, you're in good shape.

If there was a Brad Stuart out there we could give a 2nd and a 4th for at the deadline, I'd do it in a second. The closest I could see to that is if Colorado is out of a playoff spot and Jordan Leopold is healthy.

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Old
12-30-2008, 04:14 PM
  #75
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Higgins isn't going anywhere.

D'Agostini could be going back to AHL when all players come or Gainey might have a trade in four-six weeks ready with guys like Sergei Kostitsyn in the mix for either some picks or a superstar.

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