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Old
12-29-2008, 08:22 PM
  #76
Nikita Filatov*
 
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Statistics aside, I think Goligoski's value is higher at this point. Puck moving D-men are more valued than speedy wingers. Although, I think the difference can be made up by adding something small.

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Old
12-29-2008, 10:20 PM
  #77
Luck 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
Yes, I'm aware that he's a talented player. You shouldn't be unhappy with his progress, but once again, we're talking about his trade value here. You'd be better off just keeping him and hope he can work on the areas he has trouble in and become a consistent scoring threat.
Agreed. In my opinion Raymond is a future 30-35 goal scorer. That could happen as early as next season, he just has to fix a few of his deficiencies and gain some weight without slowing down.

I wouldn't do this trade.. I do figure the value is about right.

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Old
12-29-2008, 11:09 PM
  #78
R0bert0 Lu0ng0
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I think the value is roughly equal, maybe slightly tipped in Goligoski's favour but I think nuckfan in TO makes a good point as to why it's not in the Canucks' interest to add.

If the Penguins have been doing so great without him, how about this:

To VAN:
Sergei Gonchar

To PIT:
Mason Raymond
Michael Grabner
1st
2nd

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Old
12-29-2008, 11:15 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy View Post
I think the value is roughly equal, maybe slightly tipped in Goligoski's favour but I think nuckfan in TO makes a good point as to why it's not in the Canucks' interest to add.

If the Penguins have been doing so great without him, how about this:

To VAN:
Sergei Gonchar

To PIT:
Mason Raymond
Michael Grabner
1st
2nd
I don't think Pittsburgh does that. Adding Gonchar is like making a big trade at the deadline... But not giving anything up.

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Old
12-30-2008, 12:17 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy View Post
I think the value is roughly equal, maybe slightly tipped in Goligoski's favour but I think nuckfan in TO makes a good point as to why it's not in the Canucks' interest to add.

If the Penguins have been doing so great without him, how about this:

To VAN:
Sergei Gonchar

To PIT:
Mason Raymond
Michael Grabner
1st
2nd
Don't think the Canucks would give up this much for a 35 year old defenseman, and this trade is moot because Sarge has a NTC, but if he didn't...

I'm split on this because Gonchar is a vital peice of this organization at the moment so I wouldn't want to give him up.

On the other hand, those two picks would help the Pens restock the cupboards a bit, would clear up 5 million in cap space, along with giving us two young wingers with some scoring potential.

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Old
12-30-2008, 12:38 AM
  #81
Ugene Malkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy View Post
I think the value is roughly equal, maybe slightly tipped in Goligoski's favour but I think nuckfan in TO makes a good point as to why it's not in the Canucks' interest to add.

If the Penguins have been doing so great without him, how about this:

To VAN:
Sergei Gonchar

To PIT:
Mason Raymond
Michael Grabner
1st
2nd
Where's the dotted line!

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Old
12-30-2008, 02:56 AM
  #82
Rowdy Roddy Peeper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roddy View Post
I think the value is roughly equal, maybe slightly tipped in Goligoski's favour but I think nuckfan in TO makes a good point as to why it's not in the Canucks' interest to add.

If the Penguins have been doing so great without him, how about this:

To VAN:
Sergei Gonchar

To PIT:
Mason Raymond
Michael Grabner
1st
2nd
They haven't. Look at their record in December.

Quote:
Originally Posted by odds View Post
Where's the dotted line!
Nowhere near your pen, hopefully.

Have you seen the Pens' powerplay since he's been gone? Gonchar is the only thing that held this team's man-advantage play together despite Yeo's incompetence.

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Old
12-30-2008, 03:27 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Belushi View Post
If I'm gunning for a PP QB from Pittsburgh, I go for Letang. Goglioski strikes me as a bit of a tweener, not strong enough at even strength to be a constant threat throughout his career. Great on the PP, however.
It would take more than Raymond to land Letang and I don't think the Pens want to move a right hand shot defenseman that is as slick as Letang is when he rushes up the ice. Shero would have to be downright retarded to make such a trade. I think as far as untouchable defensemen go on the Pens, Letang is good as one.

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Old
12-30-2008, 01:49 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vcx View Post
It would take more than Raymond to land Letang and I don't think the Pens want to move a right hand shot defenseman that is as slick as Letang is when he rushes up the ice. Shero would have to be downright retarded to make such a trade. I think as far as untouchable defensemen go on the Pens, Letang is good as one.
I understand not moving Letang.

But what would you guys thing about something like this (if you were willing)

To Pittsburgh - Sami Salo (I believe he'd waive his NTC to go to pitts), Mason Raymond, and Vancouver's 2nd.

To Vancouver - Kris Letang and one of your 3 soon to be UFA's (Satan/Sykora/Fedotenko)

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Old
12-30-2008, 02:14 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM- View Post
I understand not moving Letang.

But what would you guys thing about something like this (if you were willing)

To Pittsburgh - Sami Salo (I believe he'd waive his NTC to go to pitts), Mason Raymond, and Vancouver's 2nd.

To Vancouver - Kris Letang and one of your 3 soon to be UFA's (Satan/Sykora/Fedotenko)
Letang's been the team's best all-around defenseman this year, and he has bona-fide #1 potential, which this team will need if/when Gonchar leaves. Any offer for him that doesn't blow Pittsburgh away in addressing both its positional needs and cap situation is a non-starter.

This offer doesn't do that.

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Old
12-30-2008, 02:37 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Letang's been the team's best all-around defenseman this year, and he has bona-fide #1 potential, which this team will need if/when Gonchar leaves. Any offer for him that doesn't blow Pittsburgh away in addressing both its positional needs and cap situation is a non-starter.

This offer doesn't do that.
okay didn't think so.

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Old
12-30-2008, 02:46 PM
  #87
AK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CM- View Post
I understand not moving Letang.

But what would you guys thing about something like this (if you were willing)

To Pittsburgh - Sami Salo (I believe he'd waive his NTC to go to pitts), Mason Raymond, and Vancouver's 2nd.

To Vancouver - Kris Letang and one of your 3 soon to be UFA's (Satan/Sykora/Fedotenko)
If Satan is the UFA, then maybe.

I still think Tang could get a better return.

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Old
12-30-2008, 04:24 PM
  #88
NOTENOUGHBREWER
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandinho View Post
Don't make assumptions. I have Sedin, Wellwood, Hansen, Schneider and Raymond on my fantasy team (and I had Kesler before trading him) so I've seen plenty of your team play. Raymond's hands are a major problem. Having bad hands doesn't mean you can't stickhandle or you're bad at passing, it means you don't have the touch to consistently make plays at high speed. Raymond's speed is a major asset but his hands have not caught up with it. Until they do, he won't be the player he's capable of being. We have enough experience with players like that over the past few years. We'd rather not trade an asset like Goligoski for another.
He can skate and dangle past guys with ease the problem is he doesnt know what to do after that. I think Raymond's problem right now is lack of hockey sense at the NHL level. Raw skill wise he's as good as they come. I dont think he'll be much more than a marginal second liner but not due to his skillset.

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