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Do We Let Tanguay Walk Away As A UFA At The End Of The Year?

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Old
12-30-2008, 01:24 PM
  #76
Fish on The Sand
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Yes, we already all know how much you dislike Higgins. You should wed Erika.
I don't really dislike Higgins. Its just that his usefulness to the team has expired. He is at best our 6th best forward and in a salary cap world those guys are not a priority. Idealy I wish we could trade Higgins and get something that could help us make a cup run, but if we can't find decent value for him then we should hang on to him and keep him around in the playoffs.

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12-30-2008, 01:40 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by FrankMTL View Post
Lang is already 38. In 2010-2011 he will be 40. Gordie Howe he is not... Do they make "walkers" with blades??
Well he hasn't looked old. And by him getting 3 mill(over Kovy getting 5 and Koivu getting 5 or both getting 5(!!!)) we will have more cap space. I see Komi getting around 4.5(or more). Added to the 5.5 of Markov, 5.5 of Hammer, it's become an expensive D already. A few others will get raises. Plus the superstar we might get that will command big bucks. All of this taken into account, a 3 mill for Lang will fit the roster like glove.

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12-30-2008, 01:46 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
I don't really dislike Higgins. Its just that his usefulness to the team has expired. He is at best our 6th best forward and in a salary cap world those guys are not a priority. Idealy I wish we could trade Higgins and get something that could help us make a cup run, but if we can't find decent value for him then we should hang on to him and keep him around in the playoffs.
Okay let me get this straight, you are using the cap excuse to say you'd rather keep Tanguay than Higgins, when both are among our best forwards defensively, yet Higgins' PPG ratio costs less than Tanguay's, and will still cost less after this season?? His usefulness hasn't expired, you just prefer other players on the team and for your info, neither you or I know if Habs management share your opinion and I doubt they do. You are taking a 21 game slump (where he was almost 0,50 PPG) and using it as an excuse. Higgins, along with Tanguay and AKost, has one of the better takeover/giveaway ratio on the team. You need these kinda players.

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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Well he hasn't looked old. And by him getting 3 mill(over Kovy getting 5 and Koivu getting 5 or both getting 5(!!!)) we will have more cap space. I see Komi getting around 4.5(or more). Added to the 5.5 of Markov, 5.5 of Hammer, it's become an expensive D already. A few others will get raises. Plus the superstar we might get that will command big bucks. All of this taken into account, a 3 mill for Lang will fit the roster like glove.
Kovy and Koivu won't get 5 each, they'll get much less. I am absolutely certain of that.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 12-30-2008 at 04:01 PM.
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12-30-2008, 02:47 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by TimminsTheStorm View Post
Any other player in the league would want out if he was played 13 minutes per game. Tanguay is producing at a really good level for the minutes he gets. I mean... he's a top-3 player and gets Lapierre type of minutes. Carbonneau is really off on that one.

I can tell you that Tanguay is not very hot at the idea of coming back to Montreal. He's played less than 16 minutes and still gets as many points as Kovalev who is played 5 extra minutes.

He'll leave for somewhere else and will once again prove all of us Carbonneau can't handle and optimize his lineup.

Grabovski, Ryder, Samsonov, Streit, who's next?
Thats because Kovalev usually plays about 2 to 4 minutes on the PK per night.

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12-30-2008, 04:17 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Tang does have a point there. I never believed at rolling four lines all the time anyway. Let the talented guys have a chance to express themselves imo.
Considering he's second only to Koivu in even-strength scoring per icetime, is third in PP productivity, and is responsible defensively, he makes a damned good point.

I'm not very keen on the idea of punishing a productive player for lack of "grit". As far as I know, this game is still decided by who has more goals, not who has more "grit". I'm not sure that's what Carbo is doing here, though. He's just rolling his lines. I would cut into the fourth line icetime a bit more though, as Maxwell and Sergei haven't been productive at even-strength.

Hopefully Koivu will return, Tanguay will play on his line, and the two of them can get 18-19 minutes a game along with Lats or d'Ago.

I would keep Tanguay, but not at any cost. He is an excellent two-way player who is productive at even-strength, and ES scoring has been a Montreal weakness traditionally. Montreal is quite strong at even-strength this year, and I think Tanguay has to be credited for some of that at least.

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12-30-2008, 06:18 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Considering he's second only to Koivu in even-strength scoring per icetime, is third in PP productivity, and is responsible defensively, he makes a damned good point.

I'm not very keen on the idea of punishing a productive player for lack of "grit". As far as I know, this game is still decided by who has more goals, not who has more "grit". I'm not sure that's what Carbo is doing here, though. He's just rolling his lines. I would cut into the fourth line icetime a bit more though, as Maxwell and Sergei haven't been productive at even-strength.

Hopefully Koivu will return, Tanguay will play on his line, and the two of them can get 18-19 minutes a game along with Lats or d'Ago.

I would keep Tanguay, but not at any cost. He is an excellent two-way player who is productive at even-strength, and ES scoring has been a Montreal weakness traditionally. Montreal is quite strong at even-strength this year, and I think Tanguay has to be credited for some of that at least.
You're right on all the line right here...

Personnally, I have a lot of issues with Carbo coaching. He wants the players to be carbon copies of himself.

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12-30-2008, 06:23 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by TimminsTheStorm View Post
You're right on all the line right here...

Personnally, I have a lot of issues with Carbo coaching. He wants the players to be carbon copies of himself.
I see no evidence of that whatsoever, can you give an example ?

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Originally Posted by MathMan View Post
Considering he's second only to Koivu in even-strength scoring per icetime, is third in PP productivity, and is responsible defensively, he makes a damned good point.

I'm not very keen on the idea of punishing a productive player for lack of "grit". As far as I know, this game is still decided by who has more goals, not who has more "grit". I'm not sure that's what Carbo is doing here, though. He's just rolling his lines. I would cut into the fourth line icetime a bit more though, as Maxwell and Sergei haven't been productive at even-strength.

Hopefully Koivu will return, Tanguay will play on his line, and the two of them can get 18-19 minutes a game along with Lats or d'Ago.

I would keep Tanguay, but not at any cost. He is an excellent two-way player who is productive at even-strength, and ES scoring has been a Montreal weakness traditionally. Montreal is quite strong at even-strength this year, and I think Tanguay has to be credited for some of that at least.

There are players that play well but don't produce well, and some that don't always play well but do produce. Tanguay,imo is like this. He avoids the crease, hangs on the outside, shoots as a last option, then does snap one, or cut to the net and tap one in. He happens to be very skilled, but you tend to want more when you watch him.

When he makes a mistake, I'll give him credit for busting his ass getting back and making up for it. I think he has a good ammount of pride, I just wish he'd have a scorer's mentality.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 12-30-2008 at 06:49 PM.
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12-30-2008, 07:27 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Okay let me get this straight, you are using the cap excuse to say you'd rather keep Tanguay than Higgins, when both are among our best forwards defensively, yet Higgins' PPG ratio costs less than Tanguay's, and will still cost less after this season?? His usefulness hasn't expired, you just prefer other players on the team and for your info, neither you or I know if Habs management share your opinion and I doubt they do. You are taking a 21 game slump (where he was almost 0,50 PPG) and using it as an excuse. Higgins, along with Tanguay and AKost, has one of the better takeover/giveaway ratio on the team. You need these kinda players.
Higgins will likely be looking for 5 million or thereabouts next season. I say good day to him. We simply cannot afford to pay 3rd line wingers that much money.

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12-30-2008, 07:53 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Higgins will likely be looking for 5 million or thereabouts next season. I say good day to him. We simply cannot afford to pay 3rd line wingers that much money.
Are you serious? Why would he ask more than A.Kostitsyn. He played like **** lately.

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12-30-2008, 08:11 PM
  #85
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Are you serious? Why would he ask more than A.Kostitsyn. He played like **** lately.
unrestricted free agency does strange things. I have no doubt somebody would overpay and give him that either.

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12-30-2008, 08:14 PM
  #86
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unrestricted free agency does strange things. I have no doubt somebody would overpay and give him that either.
Higgins is an RFA next season.

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12-30-2008, 09:48 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
When he makes a mistake, I'll give him credit for busting his ass getting back and making up for it. I think he has a good ammount of pride, I just wish he'd have a scorer's mentality.
You have just pointed to one of the main reasons (aside from age) why I'd keep him over Kovalev if it came down to choosing one of the two.

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12-30-2008, 09:49 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Higgins will likely be looking for 5 million or thereabouts next season. I say good day to him. We simply cannot afford to pay 3rd line wingers that much money.
Like H has said, Higgins will still be a RFA and Higgins will quite probably accept a AKost type contract.

Also, don't you see the big contradiction in your statement? He wouldn't be offered 5 mil if he was truly a 3rd liner. You're just proving what I said before, you just plainly dislike him. Name me 3rd liners who can score 27 goals in their 3rd season? Any player who can score 25+ goals belongs on a second line. Especially since he's a very good two-way player who often plays against the opposing team's best lines.

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12-30-2008, 10:06 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Higgins will likely be looking for 5 million or thereabouts next season. I say good day to him. We simply cannot afford to pay 3rd line wingers that much money.
I'm pretty sure Higgins won't get 5 million. You should try to get better at gauging the contracts players will get. Akost had the same kind of season as Chris last year and got 3.25 millions I think. Higgins is also slumping this year and if he doesn't catch himself before the end of the year, it'll affect strongly the value of his contract.

Plus, Higgins is an RFA, not a UFA, which means he won't be subject to the free agent frenzy.

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12-30-2008, 10:23 PM
  #90
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Looking at Tanguay since his hot start, he's playing the way that got him moved from Calgary, unless he gives a big home town discount or really turns his year around, I'm not to worried about letting him walk and playing D'agostini or one of the other young guys.

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12-30-2008, 11:55 PM
  #91
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Tanguay 4.75 mil.
Komo 3.75 mil.
Kovalev 4.5 mil.
Higgins 3.00 mil.
Plek 3.25 mil.
Saku 4.0 mil.
Kosto 1.1 mil.

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12-31-2008, 12:00 AM
  #92
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This is the year to make a run at the cup, if we fail to do so, I think the Habs will strictly think long term next year. Meaning, keeping Tanguay, letting Kovalev and Lang go. I believe 2 of Begin/Dandy/Kosto/Bouillon will be let go.

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12-31-2008, 01:28 AM
  #93
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I don't care. As long as Koivu is signed before Kovalev, and we keep Komisarek. Tangs, Lang, and especially Kovy can leave for all I care.

I actually wouldn't mind Bouillon back either.

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12-31-2008, 02:16 AM
  #94
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Forwards Pos 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12
Alex Tanguay LW 5,375,000 5,000,000   
Saku Koivu C 4,750,000 4,000,000   
Alexei Kovalev RW 4,500,000Let Go   
Robert Lang C 4,000,000 Let Go   
Andrei Kastsitsyn LW 3,250,0003,250,000 3,250,000  
Chris Higgins LW 1,900,000 2,500,000 2,500,000 
Tomas Plekanec C 1,800,000 2,500,000 2,500,000  
Georges Laraque RW 1,500,0001,500,000 1,500,000
Steve Begin C 1,300,000 Let Go   
Kyle Chipchura C 860,000 1,800,0001,800,000 
Tom Kostopoulos RW 900,000 1,100,000   
Guillaume Latendresse RW 850,000 2,000,0002,000,000 
Siarhei Kastsitsyn LW 550,000 585,000   
Maxim Lapierre C 575,000 800,000   
Matt D'Agostini RW 500,00 1,800,0001,800,000 
     
Defense Pos 2008-09 2009-10 2010-112011-12
Andrei Markov D 5,750,0005,750,000 5,750,000
Roman Hamrlik D 5,500,0005,500,000 5,500,000
Francis Bouillon D 1,875,000 Let Go   
Mathieu Dandenault D 1,750,000 Let Go   
Michael Komisarek D 1,900,000 3,500,000 3,500,000 3,500,000
Patrice Brisebois D 750,000 Let Go   
Josh Gorges D 1,100,000 1,100,000 1,100,000  
Ryan O'Byrne D 941,667 941,667 941,667  
     
Goalies Pos 2008-09 2009-10 2010-112011-12
Carey Price G 850,000 850,000   
Jaroslav Halak G 750,000 800,000   
     
Payroll  53,276,667 45,326,667 20,891,6673,500,000

This is how I'd structure it in term of resigning players. Next season we would have a good 10m to play around with.

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Old
12-31-2008, 01:01 PM
  #95
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Komi RFA - he is a must sign and I'm guessing 5M to sign him
Koivu UFA - high priority, probably about 4M
Kovalev UFA - high priority, probabley about 4.5M
Tanguay UFA - cut him loose unless he's willing to sign for 3M
Lang UFA - cut him loose unless he's willing to sign for 1.5M
Higgins - bad season so far, 2.5M? Some team may come in with offer sheet.
Plek - bad season so far, 2.5M?
Begin - bye bye
Dandy - bye bye
Bouillon - great 6th D to have around, 1.5M
Brisebois - bye bye
D'Ago - 1M
Kosto - 1M

Chip and MaxPac in the lineup and hopefully sign someone like JayBow depending on the cap.

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