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Old
12-16-2008, 03:37 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoBlues View Post
From my quoted post:
"Maybe he'll come back next year. The Blues still own his rights through the 2010-2011 season, I think."

I hope he regains his fire and comes back to camp next season.
I didn't mean it as an attack, but rather what do we think the likelihood of the Blues allowing him to come back would be?

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12-16-2008, 04:01 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Zundo View Post
I didn't mean it as an attack, but rather what do we think the likelihood of the Blues allowing him to come back would be?
I didn't take it as an attack at all, buddy. We usually agree on everything else, but on this we see things very differently. You're not the attacking type.


I think the Blues would 100% allow him to come back to camp or Peoria or whatever. He is Blues property. But another poster (I forget who) mentioned that the KHL may have something to say about it (official or not) and that coming back here may affect his chances of a career in the KHL. These are 100% valid concerns.

I, personally, don't think he would make the mistake of coming back. It would be career (in the KHL) suicide.

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12-16-2008, 05:27 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ChicagoBlues View Post
Agreed. Running back home is not the answer.

Correction: Dallas Stars' prospect, Ivan Vishnevskiy, is Russian and plays for Peoria. I'd like his insight on this matter.
He has also played in Canada or America for the last 3-4 years.

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12-16-2008, 06:26 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by StLooFrenchy View Post
Look at the stats. This guy did not deserve a call up. Let the whining baby go back tp Mother Russia, and I hope the door doesn't hit him in the buttocks! He is slightly above Trent Whitfield in scoring, by one point having played four more games. Not now, not ever will this guy be a top six scorer. Don't come back.

41 Steve Regier 21 9 12 21 9 18 3 0 37 0.243
12 Julian Talbot 24 10 9 19 -3 20 8 0 51 0.196
4 Nikolay Lemtyugov 27 5 14 19 -2 20 3 0 56 0.089
23 Trent Whitfield 23 6 12 18 2 12 2 2 57 0.105
24 Chris Conner (X) 17 10 6 16 0 4 3 0 45 0.222
10 Nicholas Drazenovic 28 6 9 15 2 20 1 2 45 0.133
44 Jonas Junland 21 6 7 13 3 12 4 2 39 0.154
3 Jim Jackson 18 2 8 10 -1 14 0 0 29 0.069
7 Andy Wozniewski 27 0 10 10 -6 22 0 0 30 0.000
27 Josh Soares 13 6 3 9 -2 8 3 0 29 0.207
20 Ivan Vishnevskiy 25 3 6 9 -7 10 1 1 31 0.097
14 Jeff Cowan 23 2 5 7 -3 31 1 0 28 0.071
Good way to evaluate talent! (I guess that's why STL is where they are!)... Anyway - whomever saw him play will attest to that - Lemmy was one of the best players in Peoria, and knowing that - he rarely got PP time, or 1 or 2nd line time. Last season, towards the end he was playing on the 4th line or not playing at all... Knowing what I know, he would have stuck it out longer if he would have gotten that proverbial cup of coffee.

I felt that he would not come back after last season, and the way STL management handled him (why not give him a game or two at the end of the season???) Given the fact that he married a high ranking hockey manager's daughter back in Russia over the summer - I felt that he would not come back for sure... Good luck to him!

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12-16-2008, 06:52 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by FeedDaPuck View Post
Good way to evaluate talent! (I guess that's why STL is where they are!)... Anyway - whomever saw him play will attest to that - Lemmy was one of the best players in Peoria, and knowing that - he rarely got PP time, or 1 or 2nd line time. Last season, towards the end he was playing on the 4th line or not playing at all... Knowing what I know, he would have stuck it out longer if he would have gotten that proverbial cup of coffee.

I felt that he would not come back after last season, and the way STL management handled him (why not give him a game or two at the end of the season???) Given the fact that he married a high ranking hockey manager's daughter back in Russia over the summer - I felt that he would not come back for sure... Good luck to him!
I've seen a number of Rivermen games and I'd say Lemmy was one of the more talented players but not necessarily one of the better players. He still had a ways to go with his play without the puck. He was dazzling in shootouts but his skill wasn't nearly as evident in an actual game situation.

Perhaps the Blues could've given him a cup of coffee but the Peoria coaches said his effort and play was inconsistent so did he really earn a callup? The bottom line is that there's a lot of the situation most of us aren't aware of and the answer isn't black and white. I'm sure both Lemmy and the Blues could've done things differently to prevent this from happening but it is what it is.

I wish Lemmy the best back in Russia. From all that I've seen and heard, he seemed like a really nice kid. I can definitely see why he would be frustrated and choose to go back home and make more money. At the same time, I can see why the Blues didn't give him a promotion to the big league.

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12-16-2008, 07:04 PM
  #56
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HERE is an article in the PJ Star regarding Lemtyugov.

I found this part particularly interesting.
Quote:
Lemtyugov held a dark outlook on his future after he played in a preseason game with the St. Louis Blues last fall. He told me then he didn't think he was good enough to play in the NHL.

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12-17-2008, 12:28 PM
  #57
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I wonder when the Peoria Rivermen's web master will remove that photo of Lemtyugov from the homepage on its site.

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12-17-2008, 03:23 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by FeedDaPuck View Post
Good way to evaluate talent! (I guess that's why STL is where they are!)... Anyway - whomever saw him play will attest to that - Lemmy was one of the best players in Peoria, and knowing that - he rarely got PP time, or 1 or 2nd line time. Last season, towards the end he was playing on the 4th line or not playing at all... Knowing what I know, he would have stuck it out longer if he would have gotten that proverbial cup of coffee.

I felt that he would not come back after last season, and the way STL management handled him (why not give him a game or two at the end of the season???) Given the fact that he married a high ranking hockey manager's daughter back in Russia over the summer - I felt that he would not come back for sure... Good luck to him!
John Davidson secretly wants to fail as head of the Blues, so he can go back to his broadcasting gig, so he has given orders that no talented players are to be given an opportunity.....
Andy Murray doesn't want the headaches of trying to figure out ice time for talented players, so he agrees with J.D.
Checketts secretly wants to sell the Blues and buy a left handed chess team, so he has signed onto J.D.'s plan.

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12-17-2008, 03:46 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by barnburner View Post
John Davidson secretly wants to fail as head of the Blues, so he can go back to his broadcasting gig, so he has given orders that no talented players are to be given an opportunity.....
Andy Murray doesn't want the headaches of trying to figure out ice time for talented players, so he agrees with J.D.
Checketts secretly wants to sell the Blues and buy a left handed chess team, so he has signed onto J.D.'s plan.
link?

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12-17-2008, 04:09 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by WalterSobchak View Post
link?
The C.I.A., won't release it....

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12-20-2008, 02:34 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Checker View Post
http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=594036

Hate to say I told you so, but does anyone want to question why I was never high on this kid when doing our little prospect lists? This is disgusting. Drazenovic is in a similar situation, putting up similar numbers, and still hasn't gotten his shot either. He's still fighting. This team has too much young talent and too few spots to tolerate quitters and cowards. Good riddance, Nic. It's good to see that when the going gets tough, you run to mommy and daddy.
This is the reason that teams should stay away from the Russian kids unless they are prospects that are going to step in and play right away. With that new league starting over there they are too tempted to go home rather than pay their dues in the bus leagues.

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12-20-2008, 02:38 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
I can't blame Lemty for going back to his homeland for more money. Quite honestly, I probably would've left a lot sooner. That said, he was under contract and it's shady to leave in the middle of the season.

I also don't put much blame on the Blues. I'm sure they knew Lemty was a flight risk but both the Peoria beat writer and JR have said Lemty has been inconsistent this season and that matches exactly what I've seen from him every time I've seen him play. He has good puck skills but isn't very good away from the puck and in very inconsistent. The Blues aren't in the business of rewarding players who haven't earned the reward.

It sucks but it happens. This is simply a guy who is a good player but is just not quite good enough for the NHL so he's going a different direction in his career. It's not really anyone's fault.

Since the whole Radulov situation killed the temporary agreement the NHL and KHL had in place, this gave Lemty this option. It sucks he's breaking his contract so from a business standpoint I'm pi$$ed at him but from a personal standpoint, I completely understand what he's thinking. He's simply doing what he thinks is best for himself.
I understand why he left, but that doesnt mean I am not still pissed. He drug up and went home in the middle of a season and that pisses me off and I say screw him as well.

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12-31-2008, 09:16 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by STL fan in IA View Post
I've seen a number of Rivermen games and I'd say Lemmy was one of the more talented players but not necessarily one of the better players. He still had a ways to go with his play without the puck. He was dazzling in shootouts but his skill wasn't nearly as evident in an actual game situation.

Perhaps the Blues could've given him a cup of coffee but the Peoria coaches said his effort and play was inconsistent so did he really earn a callup? The bottom line is that there's a lot of the situation most of us aren't aware of and the answer isn't black and white. I'm sure both Lemmy and the Blues could've done things differently to prevent this from happening but it is what it is.

I wish Lemmy the best back in Russia. From all that I've seen and heard, he seemed like a really nice kid. I can definitely see why he would be frustrated and choose to go back home and make more money. At the same time, I can see why the Blues didn't give him a promotion to the big league.
See his roommmate's blog... http://www.icedaily.com/blog/40/New_Year%27s_Present


Last edited by WalterSobchak: 01-02-2009 at 07:35 PM. Reason: troll elsewhere
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12-31-2008, 10:11 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by FeedDaPuck View Post
See his roommmate's blog... and compare the Stars' management's treatment of their assets to the Boos. http://www.icedaily.com/blog/40/New_Year%27s_Present

I thought so!
What do you think that entry says?

Vishnevskiy says he, himself, wants to play in the NHL, so returning to Russia can't be expected of him. It takes almost no reading between the lines to see that they're friends, so he's not going to blame Lemtyugov, but the decision was made based on his lack of desire to do what is necessary to make it to the NHL. And that's completely up to Nikolai. You do what you want or what you feel you have to do.

Vishnevskiy goes on to say that the AHL is faster and has tighter defense than the KHL, and he knows he needs to work on his own game; so he wasn't upset playing in the minors. Lemtyugov played a grand total of 96 games in the AHL and was outscored the entire time by several players on his own team. Oh, no, 96 games! A whole year and a half! Say what you want, but it's hysterically inaccurate to suggest he was languishing in a league that's below his capabilities. His "chance" was the AHL itself. If he was ready for the NHL ahead of everyone else, it was his job to prove it without a doubt.

No one is impugning Lemtyugov's skills, but you simply cannot say he proved without a doubt that he deserved to play in the NHL.

I hope he succeeds in whatever he does. But if he truly deserved a chance in the NHL, rather than leaving after a year and a half of moderate success amongst inconsistency, he would have ramped up his game and dominated the AHL so that the Blues had no choice but to take notice. Some call that a character issue, but I won't go that far. It's certainly possible, but I just consider it a matter of priorities. Either he wasn't good enough or his priority was not to do his best. Whether he thought his best was simply too good for the AHL or what, I can't begin to guess.

If he continues to improve and, I don't know, makes the team next year and wants to stay here, that would be cool. I, personally, hold no grudges. It's his life and it's a business as well. People do what they want. And that's what this is about. If he was really capable and really wanted to be in the NHL, he wouldn't have left. If it takes the Blues an extra ten, twenty, or fifty games to take notice, who cares? You suck it up, make your $700,000, and you improve your play every night until you're in the NHL. But that's not what he wanted. It has nothing to do with what the Blues wanted.

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01-01-2009, 12:16 PM
  #65
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While a very good and logical post - you are missing a couple of key details. BLUES asked him to come over and make LESS than what he was making. (Not the $700,000 but more like $60,000 in the AHL). He chose to come over and try it. You can say all you want, but the Blues did not give him a chance to prove himself. 1). He was not being played in Peoria on the top lines. Not a lot of PP time either. (That can explain his lower point totals). 2). A 'cup of coffee' - could have suffice, if the BLUES actually wanted him. That would probably provided an additional incentive for him. If you remember Traverse City tournament - he was hands down, the best Blues prospect there. What did he get for it? NO games in preseason. WHY should he stay???

BTW - he signed a two year deal - $450K till the end of this year and $900K next year. To play in front of his friends and relatives. In the organization that actually wants him.

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01-01-2009, 12:36 PM
  #66
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I will agree that the Blues should have given him a chance to play in the preseason, or a call up when they had 3 of their skill players out of the lineup. To say that the Blues didn't want him is BS. Blues upper Management was upset and shocked that he pulled out and went back to Russia. I would like to know who makes the final decision on who gets called up from Peoria. As far as I know they have a group that makes the decision on who is ready. Hopefully the Blues will learn from this and make adjustments. I would be happy if Lemty comes back over for camp next year. He seems like a pretty good kid.

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01-01-2009, 01:38 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by FeedDaPuck View Post
While a very good and logical post - you are missing a couple of key details. BLUES asked him to come over and make LESS than what he was making. (Not the $700,000 but more like $60,000 in the AHL). He chose to come over and try it. You can say all you want, but the Blues did not give him a chance to prove himself. 1). He was not being played in Peoria on the top lines. Not a lot of PP time either. (That can explain his lower point totals). 2). A 'cup of coffee' - could have suffice, if the BLUES actually wanted him. That would probably provided an additional incentive for him. If you remember Traverse City tournament - he was hands down, the best Blues prospect there. What did he get for it? NO games in preseason. WHY should he stay???

BTW - he signed a two year deal - $450K till the end of this year and $900K next year. To play in front of his friends and relatives. In the organization that actually wants him.
You're absolutely right about Lemty's pay in the AHL but to suggest he was the best Blues prospect at Traverse City is ludicrous. Lemty did alright on a line with Berglund and Oshie but he was clearly the 3rd guy on that line.

Again, good luck to Lemty in Russia. He did probably the same thing I would've done but I really can't blame the Blues either. One can say the Blues didn't give him a chance but one could also ask, did Lemty demand a chance with his play on the ice? IMO, no he did not. The Blues probably could've kept him around with a "cup of coffee" but why reward a guy with a brief promotion if he's not showing he deserves one on the ice?

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01-01-2009, 01:50 PM
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If Erik Johnson, who is quite possibly one of the best talents we have ever drafted and is a sizeable leap in talent and potential ahead of Lemtyugov, had to earn his ice time last year then Lemtyugov can put the same effort in to earn a call up. See Berglund, Oshie, Perron and Polak for other examples and who are all playing well in the NHL right now.

Berglund has hands down been our, and the tournament's best forward for the past two years. Don't reinvent history because they saw ice time together. Hey wait wouldn't that be giving him a chance by putting him with Oshie and Berglund our two best forwards there?

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01-01-2009, 08:59 PM
  #69
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This is the reason that teams should stay away from the Russian kids unless they are prospects that are going to step in and play right away. With that new league starting over there they are too tempted to go home rather than pay their dues in the bus leagues.
It's all about options. You hit the nail right on the head. It doesn't matter if anyone here likes it or not, the Russian's have options. The only reason Russian or any euro players come over to N.A. is to play in the NHL, and if their not they would rather be in their native county's, there's nothing wrong with it. Yes it bugs a great many people (myself included) how some of these situations play out. The bottom line is (and this is just my opinion) draft the best available player, and if he's a Russian or a euro don't sign him to a contract until you think he can step in at the NHL level, and if you don't think he's ready by the time your right's run out, then he probably wasn't cut out for the NHL. And I said probably There are of course exceptions. I'm not even going to go into whether Lempty deserved a call up or not. You just can't expect him to be as patient as N.A. players when in the back of his head he knows he has better options. In conclusion I am not condoning his actions, but I do understand them.

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01-02-2009, 08:42 AM
  #70
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Spelling and grammatical errors corrected...

...but the essential point -- and it's a good one -- remains:

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Originally Posted by Dizzon View Post
It's all about options. You hit the nail right on the head. It doesn't matter if anyone here likes it or not, the Russians have options. The only reason Russians or any Euro players come over to N.A. is to play in the NHL, and if they're not (going to be doing that, then) they would rather be in their native countries. There's nothing wrong with it.
This, in my opinion, is pretty much right on.

To me, it's not a matter of character as some people like to put it, or a matter of having the desire to pay any price to play in the NHL. It's a matter of options.

The European kids know that they don't necessarily have to sit in Peoria for three years and bust their fannies trying to impress someone in order to have a chance at making big money.

They can stay in Sweden or Finland or Russia, not have to make that big adjustment to a new culture and language at a very young age, play in front of family and friends and represent for their home countries... while still making much better money than they'd make in the three years they were toiling in Peoria.

Trying to impress an organization that has publicly stated that they believe only the very special player is going to get so much as a sniff of the NHL without spending three years in Peoria, may well be a price that is just too high for most kids to pay.

And more to the point, it may be a price that is too high to reasonably ask a player to pay.

P_B

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01-02-2009, 10:25 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Prussian_Blue View Post
...but the essential point -- and it's a good one -- remains:



This, in my opinion, is pretty much right on.

To me, it's not a matter of character as some people like to put it, or a matter of having the desire to pay any price to play in the NHL. It's a matter of options.

The European kids know that they don't necessarily have to sit in Peoria for three years and bust their fannies trying to impress someone in order to have a chance at making big money.

They can stay in Sweden or Finland or Russia, not have to make that big adjustment to a new culture and language at a very young age, play in front of family and friends and represent for their home countries... while still making much better money than they'd make in the three years they were toiling in Peoria.

Trying to impress an organization that has publicly stated that they believe only the very special player is going to get so much as a sniff of the NHL without spending three years in Peoria, may well be a price that is just too high for most kids to pay.

And more to the point, it may be a price that is too high to reasonably ask a player to pay.

P_B

Agree...and i have no problem with Lemty going home and banking some serious coin while at the same time continuing his development. If his ultimate goal is to play in the NHL, then let him come back when he's 26 or 27 (in the prime of his career) and try again. In the meantime, the Blues can focus on developing their other prospects and work on becoming a contender over the next few seasons. I'd rather see the Blues add a 27 year-old developed Lemtyugov to a power-house squad...than watch a 22 year-old Lemtyugov struggle on a bad hockey club. And if he never comes back, than it's not the end of the world...you can't blame the kid for making a decision he felt was in his best interest.

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