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Old
01-01-2009, 11:22 AM
  #101
MountainHawk
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
No movement clause. Can't become a phantom i think
Yeah, I fixed that.

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01-01-2009, 11:23 AM
  #102
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Ha no problem. I made the same mistake yesterday

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01-01-2009, 11:54 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Like others have said, Lupul has to be gone I would think. Knuble is someone i'd like to keep however.

I wonder how much of a raise Vaananen will be asking for, you would have to think we'd be trying to bring him back.

Personally I see homer believe the following are expendable depending what he plans on doing...

Lupul
Upshall
Knuble
Alberts
Kukkonnen

I really wonder if Briere would consider being traded, something i'll never know, but always wish I did. Although i'd like to keep him, he sure would free up a lot of space to build a more cohesive team around. Anyhou, thats my can of worms for the week.
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
With regards to players/personnel being jettisoned for next season, I'm thinking it'll be something like:

Biron
Niitty
Kukkonen
Alberts
Jones
Knuble
Upshall
Asham
Metropolit

Don't forget we've also got Hatcher's contract coming off the books and I think we're left with one more year of Mike Rathje's contract on the books. With Jones, Alberts, and Kukkonen gone, that makes room for Parent and leaves us with enough money to re-sign Vaananen. With Niitty and Biron being free to walk, it means the Flyers taking a stab at Khabibulin and having Scott Munroe as the backup. With Knuble, Upshall, Asham and Metropolit being sent packing, we'll have a spot on the top line for a right winger (Giroux?), two spots on the third line (maybe a JVR - Briere - Nodl line) and a fourth line spot (Kalinski). We could still keep Lupul. It's not as if the cap is going down by a whole lot. The reports I've seen are that the cap is going to go down to 55 million. It's only 1.7 million less than this year. The Flyers should be in good shape.
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Originally Posted by Cannon View Post
Personally, i think Upshall is a bargain. For his relatively cheap hit, he brings a lot to the table. It'd be a shame if we deal him because for now, he brings one of the best bangs per buck in the team.

Knuble goes in the summer, Lupul goes pretty soon, Jones probably too.

Not many seem to be looking at the option of trading Briere. We're doing damn well without him.
Too many posts to quote in here so here goes my thoughts.....

Upshall - Not a cap issue, his lack of offense is going to hurt him salary wise. He is an important piece of this team. You dont win with 9 first line players, you need gritty, two-way, agitating third liners as well and he fits the bill perfectly. He absolutely LOVES Philly (I heard this right from his mouth) so he shouldnt be expensive to re-sign.

Knuble - Needs to stay on this team for the rest of the season. I love the guy but he is expendable next season unless signing for a cheap contract

Jones - Has become pretty expendable with Carle(who has much more upside) on the team and playing most of the year without him. Regardless of what anyone thinks about him, his contract is too expensive for a guy that is a 3rd pairing dman when this defensive group is healthy.

Alberts - He has settled in pretty well with this team but again, is he worth his contract when Kukkonen is not much worse and Parent may be available soon???

Briere - NO GOING ANYWHERE so doesnt matter what anyone thinks

Lupul - Love the guy, has played very well since he was put on a line with people that can actually play (a concept Stevens has trouble figuring out sometimes) but the extension he was signed to that kicks in next year is potential trouble for us


For this year I think Jones and/or Alberts needs to go and if Sbisa is not going to play send him back to Juniors. That alone should get us under the cap for this year, especially with the injuries that allow us to spend a little more. I would not screw with the chemistry at forward by moving Knuble or Lupul this year. Moving Lupul in the offseason might need to happen, but leave the team alone this year.

When healthy this year:

Gagne Richards Knuble
Hartnell Carter Lupul
Upshall Briere Nodl/Giroux
Cote Metro Asham

Vaananen Timonen
Carle Coburn
Alberts Kukkonen
Parent

Next year

Gagne Richards Briere (if he is put back at wing)
Hartnell Carter Giroux
JVR Metro Upshall
Cote Powe/Matsumoto Asham/Nodl

Coburn Timonen
Carle Vaanenen
Sbisa Parent


As far as goaltender, I still am a Biron fan even though most on here forgot how well he played for us in the playoffs....I saw BCF16 mention letting him and Nitty walk and signing Khabibulin.....Personally I rather have Biron than Khabibulin, he hasnt done squat since he left TB, except for this year...(a contract year....what a conincidence)

We do need to make a move for a top young goaltender prospect though whether that be through the draft or trade. Maybe a Lupul+ to Vancouver for Schneider/picks
in the offseason IF they keep the Sedin twins. I think Lupul is the PERFECT RW for them and how they play.

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Old
01-01-2009, 11:54 AM
  #104
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I'll make this extremely easy for everyone, we have no cap cusion because of the effects of LTIR and how it is handled. As such we can have an active roster cap of up to but ont exceeding 56.7 mil. Right now we have 14 forwards, 8 dmen, and 2 goalies for a 24-man roster cap of 54.025 mil. We can freely add up to 2.675 mil of player salary cap (yearly total, not pro-rated). Before Briere is activated we must shed 3.825 mil in salary (again, year total, not pro-rated). Go ahead and find us that 3.825 mil if you want, I'm tired of explaining it on 3 differnt boards but this is where we are at.

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Old
01-01-2009, 11:56 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I'll make this extremely easy for everyone, we have no cap cusion because of the effects of LTIR and how it is handled. As such we can have an active roster cap of up to but ont exceeding 56.7 mil. Right now we have 14 forwards, 8 dmen, and 2 goalies for a 24-man roster cap of 54.025 mil. We can freely add up to 2.675 mil of player salary cap (yearly total, not pro-rated). Before Briere is activated we must shed 3.825 mil in salary (again, year total, not pro-rated). Go ahead and find us that 3.825 mil if you want, I'm tired of explaining it on 3 differnt boards but this is where we are at.
Jones and Alberts. Done.

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Old
01-01-2009, 12:13 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Jones and Alberts. Done.
Ok, but there is no way we run with only 6 dmen so add back in $855k for bringing Parent back up. We can make that up by sending down Kalinski and that's fine with me, but I'll let you guys argue over who goes and who stays.

Also, there is no way that we DON'T have 8 dmen either on the roster or ready for call up for the playoffs. Kukkonen getting sent down removes him as a viable option. Returning Sbisa removes him as an option. Forget Ratchuk and Guenin, they are nowhere near ready for the NHL let alone getting thrown to the wolves in the playoffs.

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Old
01-01-2009, 05:36 PM
  #107
Dig Out Your Soul
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Jones has to be the most under appreciated Flyers player of the last 15-20 years.
Under-appreciated? He's been horrendous since coming back from injury. Who the **** would want a terrible defenseman with a bad hip for his cap-hit? It's clear he's the one who should go. We have enough defensive depth without Randy ****ing Jones and his ridiculously bloated contract.

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Old
01-01-2009, 05:50 PM
  #108
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Alberts was horrendous for his first couple of weeks here too. Maybe Stevens defensive system is just so incredibly complex it takes a while to get into the swing of things.

Yes, I'm kidding.

Jones was a key contributor to the Flyers last year, and I think 5 games is not enough to throw that away.

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Old
01-01-2009, 06:52 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
He's been horrendous since coming back from injury.
Total nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
We have enough defensive depth without Randy ****ing Jones and his ridiculously bloated contract.
We have Timonen and Carle. Other than that there is no depth.

Vaananen has looked good with Timonen. Just like everyone else from Coburn to Vandermeer and back again. Take him away from Timonen and what you have is a guy who gets beaten to a lot of pucks.

Coburn has been disappointing.

Alberts has looked okay.

Sbisa is not ready.

Kukkonen is not good. If he were, someone would have claimed him on waivers.

There is no "depth".

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Old
01-01-2009, 06:59 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
Total nonsense.
Only to you.

And you would bash our depth to make Randy Jones look good. Not really surprising there.

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Old
01-01-2009, 07:01 PM
  #111
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Answer this:

If Jones wasn't a key part of the defense... why resign him?

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Old
01-01-2009, 07:12 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Answer this:

If Jones wasn't a key part of the defense... why resign him?
No better option. At that point it was a "throw **** at the wall and see what sticks" defense. Vaananen was signed out of Europe, Sbisa was not part of the plans, Hatcher couldn't play anymore, Eminger was a longshot to succeed, Parent was a rookie who everyone hoped would jump into the top 6 and succeed, Kukkonen was still floating around as a 6 or 7 option...

Now we know Vaananen is pretty solid, Carle has been a good addition, Alberts was traded for and turned out pretty well, Sbisa makes the same dumb mistakes as Jones except he's 18, is a better passer and a better skater and far cheaper...

Point is, we have better options now that the season has played out a bit. They were playing better as a unit before Jones came back.

The guy put up some points last year on a team that struggled for puck-moving options on the back end. Icetime was there for the taking. That's not an issue this year. We don't need Jones in the slightest.

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Old
01-01-2009, 07:23 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Answer this:

If Jones wasn't a key part of the defense... why resign him?
Because we had to. We all know Smith would be gone, Hatcher was a huge question mark. No way to tell we'd get a guy like Vaananen at a mil at that point. Let Jones walk and that would have left us with Timonen, Coburn, Parent and Kukkonen. Take out a draft pick playing at 18 which no one should count on at that point and Holmgren would have been looking at picking up 3 Dmen through free agency, at least one and probably two counted on to play big minutes. No way we could have afforded that, think of the complaints about the crappy overpaid defense we would have had if it went down that way.

Under the circumstances I think Holmgren did a pretty good job with the Jones signing. At this point things have changed quite a bit though, Jones and his salary have to be put on the expendable list.

edit: Guess dig out your soul got there before me. Same idea, things at that time were much different than they are now.

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Old
01-02-2009, 08:36 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Because he has a no movement clause, and there is no team that

(a) Can take his cap hit
and
(b) That he would agree to go to.


Deal with it. Briere is a Flyer for the foreseeable future.
Well aware he has a NMC, but there's never been an insinuation that he wouldn't waive it for a good team. His cap hit isn't really that bad either, and is a bonus that the most expensive year is gone.

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01-02-2009, 08:49 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
No better option.
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Originally Posted by XS Chop View Post
Because we had to.
AWESOME!!!

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Old
01-02-2009, 01:27 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Cannon View Post
Well aware he has a NMC, but there's never been an insinuation that he wouldn't waive it for a good team. His cap hit isn't really that bad either, and is a bonus that the most expensive year is gone.
Why would he waive it? He's got young kids and specifically made that NMC a part of the deal. He both wants and expects to play for the Flyers and isn't going anywhere for several years at least.

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01-02-2009, 01:42 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by JXC View Post
AWESOME!!!
Good christ I hope Jones is traded soon, would that mean that you would follow? *crosses fingers*

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01-02-2009, 02:12 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
Why would he waive it? He's got young kids and specifically made that NMC a part of the deal. He both wants and expects to play for the Flyers and isn't going anywhere for several years at least.
..and that's likely to continue until it's made likely that he may not be wanted here. Would you stay in a job when it's clear your employers are looking to get rid?

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01-02-2009, 03:07 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Cannon View Post
..and that's likely to continue until it's made likely that he may not be wanted here. Would you stay in a job when it's clear your employers are looking to get rid?
If it paid the bills, sure. I wasn't really well liked at my past job when I got there, because I was the one of the employees the new boss took from his old location.

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01-02-2009, 03:27 PM
  #120
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..and that's likely to continue until it's made likely that he may not be wanted here. Would you stay in a job when it's clear your employers are looking to get rid?
Who doesnt want him here? I dont think he cares about people on hfboards and such . I like the guy, and glad he's here.

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01-02-2009, 03:39 PM
  #121
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Who doesnt want him here? I dont think he cares about people on hfboards and such . I like the guy, and glad he's here.
This simple point is proving hard to get across. I was talking about a hypothetical situation where we ask him to waive his NMC. Would you want to stay?

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01-02-2009, 04:09 PM
  #122
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This simple point is proving hard to get across. I was talking about a hypothetical situation where we ask him to waive his NMC. Would you want to stay?
Yes. Are you honestly suggesting one of the classiest organizations in pro sports (from a player's perspective) would force someone out the door just to save a few bucks? The guy turned down his hometown province to come here. There's obviously a lot more than just "playing for a good team" factoring into his decision. Would you move your entire family for the second time in two years just because someone at your work doesn't like you?

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01-02-2009, 04:51 PM
  #123
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Good christ I hope Jones is traded soon, would that mean that you would follow? *crosses fingers*
Thats messed up

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Old
01-02-2009, 05:04 PM
  #124
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Yes. Are you honestly suggesting one of the classiest organizations in pro sports (from a player's perspective) would force someone out the door just to save a few bucks? The guy turned down his hometown province to come here. There's obviously a lot more than just "playing for a good team" factoring into his decision. Would you move your entire family for the second time in two years just because someone at your work doesn't like you?
Urgh, no! I'm just saying that if a team were looking to trade a guy, he'd be far more likely to waive his NMC.

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01-02-2009, 05:31 PM
  #125
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Urgh, no! I'm just saying that if a team were looking to trade a guy, he'd be far more likely to waive his NMC.
Gotcha. Everyone in the organeyezation seems to still like Briere, so it just seems way too soon for them to even think about asking him to waive it. Maybe a few years down the line, but for now he's on the roster whether everyone likes it or not.

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