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Dags is motivated...........

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Old
07-27-2004, 12:04 AM
  #51
EaGLE1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HABitude
As for Ribeiro and Dagenais in juniors, I knew that. If Dagenais isn't a turtle anymore (if really there is improvment in his skating department), he might be some kind of Kovalev without some speed and deking (and other hockey skills). But still an hard shooter (like Kovy).
One condition: Dagenais must improve dramaticely in skating, which I doubt, we'll see in september-october...
Dagenais can say things like in the article so people can talk a little bit about him but i personnally don't trust him. Sure, he is making some efforts but i bet that he is skating 15 minutes, then he take some pucks with him in the slots and shoot the pucks in the net the rest of the time while thinking he's the next Andreychuk :lol

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07-27-2004, 12:24 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by EaGLE1
Dagenais can say things like in the article so people can talk a little bit about him but i personnally don't trust him. Sure, he is making some efforts but i bet that he is skating 15 minutes, then he take some pucks with him in the slots and shoot the pucks in the net the rest of the time while thinking he's the next Andreychuk :lol
Well, when someone wants to become like someone else, he first have to think he's the next someone else. It's 5% wannabe, 95% work.

As I see in your post, you don't beleive Dagenais is serious. (... ) He's doing some blah-blah for the medias, he's doing it for his future. We'll see all about him in september-october.

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07-27-2004, 12:43 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HABitude
Well, when someone wants to become like someone else, he first have to think he's the next someone else. It's 5% wannabe, 95% work.

As I see in your post, you don't beleive Dagenais is serious. (... ) He's doing some blah-blah for the medias, he's doing it for his future. We'll see all about him in september-october.
I bet that he will play less than half a season.

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07-27-2004, 06:52 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by EaGLE1
They were playing together in the juniors. Do you really want to use Dagenais, the turtle, with Koivu and Zednik who are fast players that always skate hard?
We has a speedster with them last year, Bulis, and he did not do squatt with them... It is not about speed, but about hockey sense. Specially in the offensive zone.

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07-27-2004, 06:54 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by EaGLE1
then he take some pucks with him in the slots and shoot the pucks in the net :lol
Bulis should do the same...But for Bulis, even hitting the board is a plus

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07-27-2004, 07:46 AM
  #56
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Imagine that it takes being ready to fall off the face of the planet to get these guys motivated....

Good for Dags, but what took so long for the commitment to be there?

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07-27-2004, 03:51 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Cole
Imagine that it takes being ready to fall off the face of the planet to get these guys motivated....

Good for Dags, but what took so long for the commitment to be there?
I am betting it took until the CH was emblazoned on his chest. Dagenais has improved from 2 years ago to last year even (hard to bbelieve looking at his skating ). But bear in mind that this is the kid who went in the draft twice (both times picked by NJ Devils) and was subsequently waivered 3 short years in to his career. Then DUDley wouldn't give him a real shot in Florida of all places (where he gave Audette more of a chance)... Last year, he got his first true taste of NHL hockey, 52 games was by far his career high... I am all for him training hard, I think he can make something good of himself if he works hard on his deficiencies this off season (last year he did as well, and it worked).

Lots of people write him off as a waste, but I think he still can turn out all right, even if he got his skating to 'slightly below average' there are many Star players who had that knock on them. Dag's problem to date is that his skating is 'Far below average'.

The one thing Dag's has is his shot, which is nothing short of awesome. I saw him rip quite a few nice goals last year with that shot (as many have). Furthermore, Dag's proved last year he can at least help a team push for a play-off spot (his biggest problem was the plyoffs IMO)... But if you have a kid like Martin St. Louis pushing around to superstar level past 25, perhaps dagenais could be our version of a phoenix as well (i.e. really blossoming now rather than before). All this being said, He must know he'll be in tight next season, and it will be a 3-4 horse race ultimately... His talent for shooting is needed in Montreal, there can be no denying that... as we have great playmakers, who need to have shooters to pass it to, and I feel if Dag's improves his skating, it will improve his passing game as well, hence making him a true top 2 line player.

For Dagenais, I know he can do it, anything is possible if you put your mind to it...

I hope he turns every one of us in to fans.

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07-27-2004, 03:58 PM
  #58
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With Ribeiro as the playmaker, anyone can score at least 15 goals. Hossa, Higgins and even Bulis.

Dagenais need Ribeiro to produce. He scored 17, but maybe 15 were scored because of perfect passing from Ribeiro.

Dagenais is a good player to have around, but i don't think he can be a nhl regular.
Time will tell what will happen to this gutless bum.

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07-27-2004, 04:10 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
Dagenais need Ribeiro to produce. He scored 17, but maybe 15 were scored because of perfect passing from Ribeiro.
Oh come on!!

You're not giving enough credit to his shot, Dagenais doesn't have many skills but his shot is pretty dangerous... especially in practice

But to say Ribeiro did everything and all Dagenais had to do was to put pucks in empty nets is ridiculous...

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07-27-2004, 04:31 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by tchendoh
Oh come on!!

You're not giving enough credit to his shot, Dagenais doesn't have many skills but his shot is pretty dangerous... especially in practice

But to say Ribeiro did everything and all Dagenais had to do was to put pucks in empty nets is ridiculous...
Ok...maybe not all...but instead of 17 in 52 games, it would be 10. Very ordinary.

For exemple, Zednik was scoring goals at the same rate with Ribs (vs Koivu) even if he have 200% more chemistry with Koivu. That means Ribs is a great playmaker who makes his teamates much better. Same thing happened with Ryder. He produced at the same rate with Ribs. That's great since Koivu is awesome.

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07-27-2004, 04:44 PM
  #61
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Dags

2 years ago Brisebois had a very bad season and worked his but off and added strenght and that made him more mentally tough. Dags could do the same thing. Your remarks about Ribeiro are not right. Zednik played with Ribeiro and didn't produce until he got moved up to Saku's line and Dag's was recalled. Hossa has had 2 chances and didn't produce and played a lot of the time with Ribeiro and Koivu.

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07-27-2004, 04:48 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
Ok...maybe not all...but instead of 17 in 52 games, it would be 10. Very ordinary.
I agree that if he had played with a poor center, his numbers would have suffered terribly, but IMO it's obvious that if you put Dagenais in the line-up, it has to be next to a center with good playmaker skills...

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07-27-2004, 05:03 PM
  #63
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Whoever says that a player can't improve his skating at 26 is, well, wrong.

I hate to take a TO player as an exemple but Gary Roberts said himself that after changing his training regimen, he was able to improve all aspects of his physical play, including his skating. And that, at the age of 35!!

I think that Dagenais doesn't need his skating to improve dramatically to make a big difference in his play. If he can react and get to the puck just a little quicker, he can use his reach to make things happen.

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Old
07-27-2004, 11:13 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garnet
2 years ago Brisebois had a very bad season and worked his but off and added strenght and that made him more mentally tough. Dags could do the same thing. Your remarks about Ribeiro are not right. Zednik played with Ribeiro and didn't produce until he got moved up to Saku's line and Dag's was recalled. Hossa has had 2 chances and didn't produce and played a lot of the time with Ribeiro and Koivu.
My remarks are good. Zednik was MTL best goalscorer just before being used with Koivu again. Just after, he was on fire but after he was streaky, as usual.

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07-28-2004, 07:48 PM
  #65
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I'm 24, and I learned to skate just 3 years ago... the first year, I was kind of a power-skater, with good straight ahead speed, but I had no agility, not a single idea how to brake and had real trouble turning... so I fell often. The second year, I was able to turn better, had a bit more agility, but still had troubles with braking. Now I can say I'm a real good skater, kind of a 'speed demon' (at least compared to the people I play with ). 3 years...

So, why couldn't he improve his physical attributes at 26, if he's playing since he's young ? I don't personnaly like his attitude, too selfish, but at the same time, his shot and offensive instincts are great assets, if he can get a bit more mobility, why couldn't he be better ??

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07-28-2004, 07:58 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PurCHAOS
I'm 24, and I learned to skate just 3 years ago... the first year, I was kind of a power-skater, with good straight ahead speed, but I had no agility, not a single idea how to brake and had real trouble turning... so I fell often. The second year, I was able to turn better, had a bit more agility, but still had troubles with braking. Now I can say I'm a real good skater, kind of a 'speed demon' (at least compared to the people I play with ). 3 years...

So, why couldn't he improve his physical attributes at 26, if he's playing since he's young ? I don't personnaly like his attitude, too selfish, but at the same time, his shot and offensive instincts are great assets, if he can get a bit more mobility, why couldn't he be better ??

Because you started late.......

Dags started way earlier, most liely as a child, so its fair to assume hes almost hit his limit or is very close to it.

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07-28-2004, 08:15 PM
  #67
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You can always improve your skating if you train hard and that's what Dagenais is doing right now.

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07-28-2004, 10:24 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov
You can always improve your skating if you train hard and that's what Dagenais is doing right now.
Yeah ,he know that if he won't respond it's gonna be his last chance because young guys are waiting to have this spot ex:Hossa,Higgins,Perezhogin but the guy is working hard ,he want to prove that he wants to be a better player.He came to Pierrefons ,he was there in the skating drills if his skate is better and if he use well his body the guy can turn into a great player but he's still a 20+ goal scorer.

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07-28-2004, 10:43 PM
  #69
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Skating well is a natural talent. I skate very well, i'm 5''8 and i do small, rapid strides, like St-Louis...I'm very agile, i can turn on a dime. Every winter, when i play on a outside rink, the really 1st time i skate, i'm fast/agile as usual. Without practice.

My slapshot is weak. But i have a good wrister...

Dagenais has been probably skating for 20 years now. And he's a very very poor skater with no agility at all. I agree that you can practice it and become better but it's written in his ADN that he's a real bad skater. A summer is too short, and he's 26 yet. He should learn to read a hockey game instead. He never know what to do with the puck instead of shooting.

It's too late.

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07-29-2004, 08:37 AM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EaGLE1
Skating well is a natural talent. I skate very well, i'm 5''8 and i do small, rapid strides, like St-Louis...I'm very agile, i can turn on a dime. Every winter, when i play on a outside rink, the really 1st time i skate, i'm fast/agile as usual. Without practice.
Is scoring goals and offense abilities also natural talents????? If so, how can we expect some of our draft picks and 3-4th line puck dumpers to get better?

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07-29-2004, 08:50 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Stefan_Latulippe
Is scoring goals and offense abilities also natural talents????? If so, how can we expect some of our draft picks and 3-4th line puck dumpers to get better?
I don't think you'll ever get Begin to rip shots from the wing like Bossy or Hull but you can ask for improvement. I remeber Steve Shutt talking about things that can be taught as far as positioning and release. Little things like being willing to go to the net without the puck help. Sometimes confidence becomes an issue and some players develop this at a certain point in their careers. On the other hand, some players are too easily satisfied to call themselves defensive specialists and don't show enough determination offensively. I consider Sundstrom an example of this. I don't know that you can characterize many Habs merely as 'puck dumpers' though. Even your friend Bullis hasthe ability and should be expected to chip in 15-20. Not a huge number but when you look around the league, there are a lot worse. It's already been said, Dagenais has had time to improve, why now ? Now people know he can score in the league, but his game has to get to at least a mediocre level to stay. If one of the young players show they can score and play a complete game, why would they keep him ?

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07-29-2004, 08:57 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by mcphee
I don't think you'll ever get Begin to rip shots from the wing like Bossy or Hull but you can ask for improvement. I remeber Steve Shutt talking about things that can be taught as far as positioning and release. Little things like being willing to go to the net without the puck help. Sometimes confidence becomes an issue and some players develop this at a certain point in their careers. On the other hand, some players are too easily satisfied to call themselves defensive specialists and don't show enough determination offensively. I consider Sundstrom an example of this. I don't know that you can characterize many Habs merely as 'puck dumpers' though. Even your friend Bullis hasthe ability and should be expected to chip in 15-20. Not a huge number but when you look around the league, there are a lot worse. It's already been said, Dagenais has had time to improve, why now ? Now people know he can score in the league, but his game has to get to at least a mediocre level to stay. If one of the young players show they can score and play a complete game, why would they keep him ?
Good post! My point is you can always be better at what you do and you are not born with the ability to skate...you aquire it by working hard. If we are born with the ability to score goals or to skate, how can we expect Chip to become better offensively? That's my point!

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07-29-2004, 09:12 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan_Latulippe
Good post! My point is you can always be better at what you do and you are not born with the ability to skate...you aquire it by working hard. If we are born with the ability to score goals or to skate, how can we expect Chip to become better offensively? That's my point!
I remember a point Spike Lee was making years ago, not sure what forum. He was pointing out how people assumed Larry Bird's success was due his work ethic and that Magic Johnson's and Michael Jordan's was due to God given athletic ability. Not the same thing, but in the end success comes from hard work.

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07-29-2004, 09:23 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
I remember a point Spike Lee was making years ago, not sure what forum. He was pointing out how people assumed Larry Bird's success was due his work ethic and that Magic Johnson's and Michael Jordan's was due to God given athletic ability. Not the same thing, but in the end success comes from hard work.
Voilà!

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07-29-2004, 11:32 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee
I remember a point Spike Lee was making years ago, not sure what forum. He was pointing out how people assumed Larry Bird's success was due his work ethic and that Magic Johnson's and Michael Jordan's was due to God given athletic ability. Not the same thing, but in the end success comes from hard work.
Recently, after winning Le Tour de France for the 6th time, Lance Armstrong said that his sucess also come because he works very hard. He is on his bike 365 days per year, even during Christmas time. Talent is very important but you gotta work.
That's why i'm thinking that Ribeiro should work even more, if he do that he could be as good and complete as Brad Richards.

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