Let me say that I am all for tinkering with the lines EVERY NOW AND THEN. If the team is on a long losing streak or not playing well, or for a long-term injury. However Renney seems to just see a small bit of bad play and changes the lines immediately, why not let the players try and play through it? Resiliency.
chemistry is hard to find when the lines change constantly.
The basic root in "chemistry" is talent, which you have to have first and foremost to develop the ever intanglible "CHEMISTRY."
This team has 2 severely overpaid centermen that are pretty much second liners, and need to patchwork the wings with Naslund, Zherdev, Korpikoski, Prucha, Dawes, Voros, and Callahan. Only 2 of those wingers can even be mistaken for top 6 forwards, leaving 2 additional spots for guys that are simple overmatched when it comes to the issue of scoring consistently.
Sting - you may be right - that there's nothing to be gained by juggling lines - but why not at least continue to try to see what, if anything, works while this team is still solidly in a playoff spot and before Sather decides to trade one of these kids for a rental? Why not try to make it work? Right now, the offense needs to get going because Lundqvist has been inconsistent - can't remain status quo and hope he's going to bail this team out.
Oh, I'm not advocating that lines should constantly stay the same -although this newest version of lines I think is terrible, and there is no reason Korpedo should sit in favor of loser Voros - my point is that none of these lines are going to work because this team isn't very good. The offense isn't going anywhere. Their best bet is to get back to what they were doing before, winning shootouts, and frankly, I'm of the opinion that a team like this, that accumulates so many points by way of shootout, is doomed once the playoffs arrive.
But then again, I think this team will be lucky to even make the playoffs, much less win a round.
The basic root in "chemistry" is talent, which you have to have first and foremost to develop the ever intanglible "CHEMISTRY."
This team has 2 severely overpaid centermen that are pretty much second liners, and need to patchwork the wings with Naslund, Zherdev, Korpikoski, Prucha, Dawes, Voros, and Callahan. Only 2 of those wingers can even be mistaken for top 6 forwards, leaving 2 additional spots for guys that are simple overmatched when it comes to the issue of scoring consistently.
I agree with that, however if that is the problem then have two third lines and 1 first line. Either way you need to build chemistry because teams with good chemistry and who have played together can beat teams with better talent if they work hard and get timely scoring.
correlation between juggling and poor play? I think the poor play preceded the juggling and the juggling was meant as a means to correct that. But I think reality is the offense has struggled all season long, except for the fast start. We didn't recognize this as poor play as much until Lundqvist was looking more and more human.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway
That's my point.
The lines were being juggled in mid-october when this team was winning, maybe with the exception of the Dubinsky-Zherdev combination that found form early on. Not that the team was performing all that spectacular, but the Renney was tinkering with combinations (especially involving Gomez and Drury) early and often.
Well Cally seems to play well with Gomez..........and then Naslund makes sense on the wing
Drury with two guys who are small but work hard and want a spot in Dawes and Prucha
you actually have to like the speed of Korps, Dubi , Zherdev
4th line stays the same although I would not mind Fritsche getting in just to show Sjostrom he needs to play better.......Voros is a big body so he will get in eventually.........gotta win this one
The lines were being juggled in mid-october when this team was winning, maybe with the exception of the Dubinsky-Zherdev combination that found form early on. Not that the team was performing all that spectacular, but the Renney was tinkering with combinations (especially involving Gomez and Drury) early and often.
He's trying to get two important offensive players going. I fail to see how that is a bad thing when the team scored one goal last game.
I hear you, Sting, although I think that Renney's hoping Voros is the kind of guy who will respond well to being sat and thus reuiniting him with two linemates with whom he's had success earlier in the season will jumpstart him again. I can't disagree much with the logic, however, this is a guy who scored 7 career NHL goals prior to this season - what's being jumpstarted? The other issue is Voros is a left winger. He's replacing a right winger. That means that someone's out of position and you'd think that the Drury line will not look good tonight.
I have expressed my criticisms in the past of Renney, and I still have them, but at the same time, he's not working with the Red Wings' lineup. It's tough finding the right mix in this group, and I don't think this is Renney's strong suit to begin with, which makes it even tougher.
When Sather finished doing his summer magic and let Jagr go as a result, I predicted that Rangers are doomed, will be out of playoffs and Renney will be fired by January... Little I knew how right I was
1. Gomez cannot play with anybody. He just cannot play, period. Renney has no other options, but to try. So he does. There is nothing wrong there.
2. Krappykoski had bad game against WAS. I like this kid, but for his own sake he must sit at least one game. Good call.
3. Moving Prucha to RW is temporary and doesn't mean much. The forward assignment is for defensive positioning. Up in PIT zone Pru can switch wherever he wants. It could be easier for the right-shooting forward to play defense on right side. Plus, Dawes is right shooter as well, but you don't want to touch him by moving to opposite wing cause his game is too fragile at this point. Prucha, on the other hand, seems willing and capable. Okay with me.
I still think that the only way to get this squad back on track is to get "inhuman" Lundqvist back. As this team constructed, that's the only hope.
I hear you, Sting, although I think that Renney's hoping Voros is the kind of guy who will respond well to being sat and thus reuiniting him with two linemates with whom he's had success earlier in the season will jumpstart him again. I can't disagree much with the logic, however, this is a guy who scored 7 career NHL goals prior to this season - what's being jumpstarted? The other issue is Voros is a left winger. He's replacing a right winger. That means that someone's out of position and you'd think that the Drury line will not look good tonight.
I have expressed my criticisms in the past of Renney, and I still have them, but at the same time, he's not working with the Red Wings' lineup. It's tough finding the right mix in this group, and I don't think this is Renney's strong suit to begin with, which makes it even tougher.
This is along the lines of what I imagined as well, except the problem with this strategy is Voros might be able to sustain that attitude for 4-5 games. At least, that's all he's shown so far in his NHL career. I guess that's the best we can hope for with this garbage team, crisis-mode changes every week or two once whatever was working for a few games stops working, and so forth and so forth.
And yes, Fletch, of course Renney is at a disadvantage. I think it's time for Renney to go, but I have always acknowledged that this team isn't very good to begin with. That said, again, the question remains: how much of a say did Renney have in the personnel decisions? IMO, a decent amount, because I think Renney has a lot of influence in Sather. But I could be wrong.
You're right - moving to Prucha is temporary - moving him off the team or back to the press box is more permanent. I'm still in shock he's in the lineup given Renney's comments after the last game - figured they must be showcasing him.
Don't disagree about the defensive thoughts, though (right hander on the right side doesn't need to go to the backhand to get pucks out along the boards or stop the from going down the boards - good call there).
it's in the best interests of the Rangers to get a guy like Voros going. He has size and when he uses it is effective. When playing well you can see the excitement in him, although we haven't seen that in a while. I think at a minimum Renney will know what kind of player, mentally, he has in Voros, who prior to this had played in 55 NHL games so he really isn't known by anybody and this should be a good indication. If he plays well for a few games then tails off, then Renney knows this kid is likely best suited for the fourth line and in games in which he's playing well, he can be bumped up (which is how he got there in the first place).
As for Renney going...I'm critical of Renney, and have been since after the lockout (can't remember those last 20-something games in which he was a coach and it wasn't a fair period to judge). I do think there are better coaches out there. Having said that, I can't confidently say that there is a better coach available for this team right now. There are coaches we know who have had successes in the past with other teams, but perhaps they won't work well with this team. This roster just isn't that good.
When Sather finished doing his summer magic and let Jagr go as a result, I predicted that Rangers are doomed, will be out of playoffs and Renney will be fired by January... Little I knew how right I was .
it's in the best interests of the Rangers to get a guy like Voros going. He has size and when he uses it is effective. When playing well you can see the excitement in him, although we haven't seen that in a while. I think at a minimum Renney will know what kind of player, mentally, he has in Voros, who prior to this had played in 55 NHL games so he really isn't known by anybody and this should be a good indication. If he plays well for a few games then tails off, then Renney knows this kid is likely best suited for the fourth line and in games in which he's playing well, he can be bumped up (which is how he got there in the first place).
As for Renney going...I'm critical of Renney, and have been since after the lockout (can't remember those last 20-something games in which he was a coach and it wasn't a fair period to judge). I do think there are better coaches out there. Having said that, I can't confidently say that there is a better coach available for this team right now. There are coaches we know who have had successes in the past with other teams, but perhaps they won't work well with this team. This roster just isn't that good.
I agree on both counts.
Yes, it is in their interests to get Voros going, but like I said, I jsut don't think he's going to be able to sustain it. He didn't do that last season and he hasn't yet this season. Sure, one season's worth of games might not be enough to judge a player, but Voros is no top prospect. He's 27. He's a borderline NHLer because while he does have physical gifts, he doesn't use them on a consistent basis. If you have a guy who simply chooses not to play his game and is thus less effective because of it, that is a guy I don't want on my team. What purpose is there in having a player like that? Unfortunately this team has more than a few guys who fit that description, which is why the team isn't very good.
As for the coach situation, I also don't think there is a better coach out there for this team, but that's just because this team is so poorly put together. I don't think Scotty Bowman could make this team a winner.
I agree on Voros - although at the same time, I'm willing to wait and see. I was critical of him after he scored his first 6 or 7 goals - cautioning that this is a guy with 7 career NHL goals, let's not pencil him in for 25-30 this season just yet. And I never really watched him in prior seasons so I don't know what to expect. There aren't many 27 year olds coming out of nowhere and sustaining a prosperous NHL career, but hey, we're really just looking for a third liner who can score 10-15 goals a season and be a physical presence. Expecting more would be unfair to Voros (and Renney, and even Sather).
I agree on Voros - although at the same time, I'm willing to wait and see. I was critical of him after he scored his first 6 or 7 goals - cautioning that this is a guy with 7 career NHL goals, let's not pencil him in for 25-30 this season just yet. And I never really watched him in prior seasons so I don't know what to expect. There aren't many 27 year olds coming out of nowhere and sustaining a prosperous NHL career, but hey, we're really just looking for a third liner who can score 10-15 goals a season and be a physical presence. Expecting more would be unfair to Voros (and Renney, and even Sather).
I certainly never expected anything from him other than what we're getting. I saw no point in signing him, especially if it's to a three-year deal. I keep seeing one and three, not sure which it is.
But what I think is unfair is that I would rather have Avery at his deal than Redden at his. Now, I'm not even a huge lover of Avery. I think he's a piece of ****, to be honest, but getting rid of him obviously hasn't done much to help this team. While I don't think he is anything special, I do see that this team lacks the things he brought to the table. Voros has not replaced that. Voros is no agitator. He's a minor nuisance, not a major distraction to other teams like Avery was.
It's not that I wanted Avery back that bad, it's that compared to the players that were acquired in his stead, Sather's logic is absurd.
Then again, that isn't a surprise. He's also the one paying $14 million dollars to two guys and he'll be lucky if they combine for 40 goals and 100 points.
I think there may've been a lot of ways to spend the money that was spent on Voros, Redden and Rissmiller. That's $8.5MM per season. That's not meant as a knock on Voros - I'm actually fine with his $1MM - but combined with Rissmiller, it didn't make a heck of a lot of sense.
interesting aside on Avery: always thought he was some kind of cancer to the team, but if Page Six is correct, he was hanging out with Gomez, Drury, Dawes and Naslund at some club. Sure Page Six makes things up, but that's a comment they'd be silly to make up.
He's trying to get two important offensive players going. I fail to see how that is a bad thing when the team scored one goal last game.
Oh it's not, I was just referring to the 'chicken or the egg' argument of poor play and line changes. I'm fine with changes going into tonight, I just don't see how the fourth line gets to go untouched when it's obvious the most interchangeable parts for Voros are either Orr or Sjostrom.
Not sure if this has been pointed out, but in fairness to Voros, his production started to decline the same time that Dubinsky's production started to decline which both happened to co-incide with Renney starting to dick around with the lines.
What Renney should have done, was to leave the Voros - Dubinsky - Zherdev line alone and let them carry the team offensively while Naslund - Gomez and whoever develope the chemistry needed to form a team.
Get Voros on a line that can take advantage of the space he creates by going to the net and watch is production creep up.
Renney's infatuation with having an inter-changeable line-up has cost this team valuable time to form any chemistry. But sicne we are in 1st place still all will be forgiven....blah....blah......blah...........
Then again, that isn't a surprise. He's also the one paying $14 million dollars to two guys and he'll be lucky if they combine for 40 goals and 100 points.
I agree with your post Sting...
but that last line is too much of a sobering thought to bear.
That really.... sucks when they should be getting those numbers from EACH guy for that amount.
Get Voros on a line that can take advantage of the space he creates by going to the net and watch is production creep up.
Renney's infatuation with having an inter-changeable line-up has cost this team valuable time to form any chemistry. But sicne we are in 1st place still all will be forgiven....blah....blah......blah...........
But Voros doesn't go to the net. Not always. That's the only way he's useful and he usually just skates around aimlessly. Like I said before, he's a nuisance, not a distraction. Oh and we're not in first place. We're in sixth.
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Originally Posted by MikeyLikesHockey
hmmm maybe time to call Rismiller back up, he has scored 1 point per game since he's been there.
He might jumpstart Colton Orr to the 5 goal scorer we know he can be.
The debbies and Rangers were in the same situation at season start.
The Rangers kept changing their lines, the debbies didn't . Debbies sucked it up for most of the beginning of the season we were doing ok.
Now Debbies have chemistry, don't need brodeur to win and smoked us in our last game.
We are still trying to hit our stride, cause no one knows how to play with each other.
I don't see it that way at all. The biggest reason why the Devils are doing better than the Rangers is that they have better players. Simple as that.
I don't get why Korpikoski deserves to be scratched. It can't be about producing offense, because Sjostrom and Orr do none of that. It can't be because he doesn't hustle, because he's busting his ass every ****ing shift for coach Renney, which is a lot more than I can say for 75% of this team.
Looks like Korpikoski might be the new Prucha. Hopefully he's only out one game, not 10.
Fans displeasure is always the first sign. 
