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Briere update -- January 23 (post #584)

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01-06-2009, 03:31 PM
  #101
mikedifr
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
All of which comes to the fact that you are what you are...and Umberger type performances aren't that few and far between, they happen every year in the playoffs for teams that go deep. I'd go so far as to say that you have to bank on that plus the play of your goalie stepping up at the right time. You look at any team in the Conf. Finals and Cup Finals and you're going to see role players who have had nice runs for themselves.

While Briere is certainly a good offensive player, you reach a point where enough is enough against the cap. 10 years ago...fine, go for it and I'd have no problem with him on the team. Now...different story.

Agreed.....And I think you have a much, much, much better chance of having consistent performances like that out of Briere year after year than you do from Lupul, Hartnell and Knuble....

You cant move Briere and I dont think you really need to until Carter comes up for his next contract. You have Gagne, Richards, Hartnell in your top 6 at pretty good deals for what they give you. Add Briere and fill in Lupul and Knuble's spots with younger, less expensive players and you are fine. If Briere needs to be moved to keep Carter than so be it....waive him for all I care. I want him on this team the next 2 years at least unless you can find me a team that is going to give us someone that is the equivalent on defense that Briere is to offense......I just dont see it being realistic

Teams like Tampa and Carolina have won the cup without having an elite defense back there......They were more offensive like we are, we just need the right coach driving the ship

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01-06-2009, 03:33 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
The personnel we have at D are not the problem at this point.

Kimmo - Fantastic as always.

Coburn - Rocky, no doubt about that, should be playing less minutes.

Carle - A little mistake prone, but he's been generally very solid and without a doubt has helped a lot on the breakouts.

Vaananen - A rock.

Alberts - Surprisingly solid since we picked him up.

Is there any doubt that a guy like Weber would be an upgrade? Of course not. But let's think realistically here.

Is a 2nd pairing guy (for instance, a Brad Stuart), a significant enough upgrade for us in our top-4?

As far as I'm concerned, we have 4 top-4 D right now.

Last year, you could attribute a lot of our problems to the fact that we didn't have 4 top-4 D and in addition, guys like Smith, Hatch, Vandy, Modry, and Fitzpatrick were killing us.

This year, we have 3 guys playing very well (Carle, Vaananen, Kimmo), a 4th guy doing okay (Coburn), and a generally solid bottom pairing. The talent level is not the problem.

The problem, again, is just extremely poor defensive zone coaching with a dose of very inconsistent goaltending.

It's not like Briere coming back is going to create a huge problem, there already is a huge problem. Throwing more top-4 D at it isn't going to solve the problem that we are fundamentally pathetic in our own zone.

We allow .2 more goals per game than we did last year. That's with an improved defense and it's without Briere in the lineup.

So I mean, if Briere is the holocaust defensively, how come we allow more goals this year than we did last year? Briere is not the problem here. Until this team learns how to play defensively, we are going to allow extremely high amounts of goals and that's not going to change with or without Briere.
Exactly....I was trying to make the same point......Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Vaananen in your top 4 and the bottom pairing guys we have rotated should be much much better than 23rd in the league in defense

As you say, there is some fundamental issue with the way this team plays defense.....You essentially traded Smith, Hatcher, Modry for Carle, Vaananen and Alberts and havent seen much improvment at all, if any....

With a few exceptions, I would typically be willing to trade an elite forward for an elite dman cause the elite dman is typically so much harder to acquire.....However, with the coaching staff here 1) I dont think it really improves our team defense that much cause the team is still going to play the same way, with the same system whatever that is, and 2) I dont see any team trading us an elite dman, or a good 3rd line center and 2nd pairing dman for a borderline elite forward. Moves like that just dont happen.

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01-06-2009, 03:36 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
So I mean, if Briere is the holocaust defensively, how come we allow more goals this year than we did last year? Briere is not the problem here. Until this team learns how to play defensively, we are going to allow extremely high amounts of goals and that's not going to change with or without Briere.
Because our goaltending has dropped by 10 pts in SVPCT...been a big factor.

And team defense, and the style of defensive hockey we play is certainly an issue. It isn't helped that we have some guys looking like young D back there. The Coburn-Carle pairing makes me nervous every time they're out there. For every really good play they make, they also do something silly.

What I wouldn't give for a Weinrich like player on this team...if we had the cap room (which we won't), this team could really use a veteran steady D for the top 4.

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01-06-2009, 03:39 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Because our goaltending has dropped by 10 pts in SVPCT...been a big factor.

And team defense, and the style of defensive hockey we play is certainly an issue. It isn't helped that we have some guys looking like young D back there. The Coburn-Carle pairing makes me nervous every time they're out there. For every really good play they make, they also do something silly.

What I wouldn't give for a Weinrich like player on this team...if we had the cap room (which we won't), this team could really use a veteran steady D for the top 4.
Who moves down to the bottom pairing, Vaananen?

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01-06-2009, 03:40 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Teams like Tampa and Carolina have won the cup without having an elite defense back there......They were more offensive like we are, we just need the right coach driving the ship
Carolina is a bad example as the officiating has regressed about 20 miles since they won, which is why you've seen the type of team that gets to the Cup Final come much more back in line with pre-lockout teams as far as their style. It's aided by the fact that all the teams with older defensive styles (ahem, the Flyers) have also swung around to quicker defenses, and you see a lot more collapsing into the slot to clog up the shooting and passing lanes going on.

That Tampa team had an elite playmaker back there in Boyle (no complaints with Timonen) and they also were EXTREMELY good at high paced team defense. They blocked about 50% of the shots aimed at their net.

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01-06-2009, 03:41 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Carolina is a bad example as the officiating has regressed about 20 miles since they won, which is why you've seen the type of team that gets to the Cup Final come much more back in line with pre-lockout teams as far as their style. It's aided by the fact that all the teams with older defensive styles (ahem, the Flyers) have also swung around to quicker defenses, and you see a lot more collapsing into the slot to clog up the shooting and passing lanes going on.

That Tampa team had an elite playmaker back there in Boyle (no complaints with Timonen) and they also were EXTREMELY good at high paced team defense. They blocked about 50% of the shots aimed at their net.
They were much better coached in my opinion.

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01-06-2009, 03:41 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Who moves down to the bottom pairing, Vaananen?
Yes, I don't think he should be playing 20 minutes a night. He's a solid guy, and good to put out there on the PK and whatnot. But if Coburn EVER gets back to where he was last year I'd like to see him with Timonen and someone steady and smart with Carle, who is definitely prone to moving too far up the ice.

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01-06-2009, 03:43 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yes, I don't think he should be playing 20 minutes a night. He's a solid guy, and good to put out there on the PK and whatnot. But if Coburn EVER gets back to where he was last year I'd like to see him with Timonen and someone steady and smart with Carle, who is definitely prone to moving too far up the ice.
I would be fine with Vaananen playing with Carle if Coburn and Timonen were reunited......That is probably Parent's spot in a couple years anyway.

Personally I am not a big fan of Carle, but he is still young and can get better

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01-06-2009, 03:44 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
But that's not really what happens...it's short samples and guys get hot. This happens all throughout the season. So it really doesn't apply any real value to talk about it in those terms. Briere is a really good offensive player so when he's playing hockey games you'd expect him to produce points...thus he scores points in the playoffs.

There is, quite simply, no such thing as being a "clutch" player. They are the same player, playing the same sport, under the same rules...and if you look at player production, it shows this to be true in almost every case.
I don't know why we're even arguing this. "Clutch" is meant to be a synonym for "reliable". Sort of like "shut down".

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01-06-2009, 03:46 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I would be fine with Vaananen playing with Carle if Coburn and Timonen were reunited......That is probably Parent's spot in a couple years anyway.

Personally I am not a big fan of Carle, but he is still young and can get better
I've liked Carle, just wish he was paid a bit less. He clearly has a good stick and passing skills, but he also shows why he's gotten in trouble with coaches (Wilson) in the past. If he's not producing offense, my god is it frustrating to watch your D chasing his man from behind.

I'm very annoyed as of now that Parent is likely to spend the rest of the year in the AHL.

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01-06-2009, 03:53 PM
  #111
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traditionally you build a team with two balanced scoring lines an enegy line and a shutdown line to go agaisnt the other teams best players. i think the way the flyers see it is that our top two lines because of thier two way strengths can play against the other teams top lines eliminating the need for a shutdown line. that means our 3rd line has to generate offense. briere fits on a line like that perfectly. the question is who does he skate with? upshall has the speed to keep up but isnt a natural scorer though he brings other things to the table. giroux has the offensive upside but he is yet another small players. after long consideration i dont care. skate the mighty mites. i think the speed and creativity on that line is enough to worry any line in the league.

heres the other end of it. say we did trade briere, we bring in a legit shutdown 3rd lline center. who does he skate with? upshall again has proven defensively responsible and has quickness and tenacity but there is still no size to put on that other wing. i dont know that we have the personnel right now to skate a more traditionally balanced team. with or without briere. so we, at least for the rest of this season, are better with him.

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01-06-2009, 04:01 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
traditionally you build a team with two balanced scoring lines an enegy line and a shutdown line to go agaisnt the other teams best players. i think the way the flyers see it is that our top two lines because of thier two way strengths can play against the other teams top lines eliminating the need for a shutdown line. that means our 3rd line has to generate offense. briere fits on a line like that perfectly. the question is who does he skate with? upshall has the speed to keep up but isnt a natural scorer though he brings other things to the table. giroux has the offensive upside but he is yet another small players. after long consideration i dont care. skate the mighty mites. i think the speed and creativity on that line is enough to worry any line in the league.

heres the other end of it. say we did trade briere, we bring in a legit shutdown 3rd lline center. who does he skate with? upshall again has proven defensively responsible and has quickness and tenacity but there is still no size to put on that other wing. i dont know that we have the personnel right now to skate a more traditionally balanced team. with or without briere. so we, at least for the rest of this season, are better with him.
Yes, agreed. Basically what I meant when saying "as this team is currently contructed and playing" we are better with Briere.

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01-06-2009, 04:08 PM
  #113
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I don't know why we're even arguing this. "Clutch" is meant to be a synonym for "reliable". Sort of like "shut down".
i see constient and reliable as close. clutch is the opposite of reliable. its having another level to bring out when you really gotta step up. some guys can find that 10% and give it and some guys cant. claude lemieux was clutch. patrick roy was clutch. a few years ago eric lindros was clutch against the rangers. its that ability to find more when youve already given all you have. to play better then you are. if you could reliably play that way youd just be better.

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01-06-2009, 04:09 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'm very annoyed as of now that Parent is likely to spend the rest of the year in the AHL.
Agree.

The problem with our "system" is that it places way too much emphasis on a player's innate defensive instincts and ability. Let's look at players who have more or less succeeded defensively under Stevens, both forwards and d-men.

Kimmo - Incredibly smart and savvy player, at both ends.
Richards - Also very smart, great instincts.
Gagne - Elite defensive player
Carter - Not stand-out smart, but has decent instincts and is also a physical beast.
Vaananen - Good instincts, keeps it simple.
Hartnell - Good defensive instincts, hard worker, good size
Knuble - decent instincts, works hard, good size

Now, look at those guys who are struggling defensively.

Coburn - Needs seasoning, average instincts right now.
Lupul - Tools to be a good defensive player, but hasn't gotten there.
Sbisa - A rookie, too many mistakes.
Nodl - A rookie, mistakes.
Briere - Poor defensive instincts

The point of a playing a system is that players who aren't as smart defensively (like a Coburn or Briere), don't have to think when they have the puck in their own zone. They have a task, they need to fulfill that task.

Look at Coburn's turnovers all season. He'll get the puck and constantly turn it over with poor decisions because he doesn't know what to do. I don't think Coburn is a stupid player, but he doesn't have the smarts or savvy of a guy like Kimmo. The point of a system is to eliminate mistakes by helping guys make simple decisions.

Same thing happened with Eminger. Eminger isn't a stupid player, but he's not exceptionally smart either. That's why he struggled here at times, particularly early in the year.

I wish we had a roster full of guys like Richards and Kimmo. But no NHL team (with the possible exception of Detroit), can ice a lineup where everybody is a strong defensive player. The point of a system is that it helps compensate for players' weaknesses.

Let's get this out there, Briere will always struggle defensively. But if you put him on a wing with 2 elite defensive players (Gagne and Richards say hello) and make sure he knows what to do in the defensive zone, he'll be fine.

There's a difference between being a below average defensive player and being a minus 22.

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01-06-2009, 04:23 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Agree.

The problem with our "system" is that it places way too much emphasis on a player's innate defensive instincts and ability. Let's look at players who have more or less succeeded defensively under Stevens, both forwards and d-men.

Kimmo - Incredibly smart and savvy player, at both ends.
Richards - Also very smart, great instincts.
Gagne - Elite defensive player
Carter - Not stand-out smart, but has decent instincts and is also a physical beast.
Vaananen - Good instincts, keeps it simple.
Hartnell - Good defensive instincts, hard worker, good size
Knuble - decent instincts, works hard, good size

Now, look at those guys who are struggling defensively.

Coburn - Needs seasoning, average instincts right now.
Lupul - Tools to be a good defensive player, but hasn't gotten there.
Sbisa - A rookie, too many mistakes.
Nodl - A rookie, mistakes.
Briere - Poor defensive instincts

The point of a playing a system is that players who aren't as smart defensively (like a Coburn or Briere), don't have to think when they have the puck in their own zone. They have a task, they need to fulfill that task.

Look at Coburn's turnovers all season. He'll get the puck and constantly turn it over with poor decisions because he doesn't know what to do. I don't think Coburn is a stupid player, but he doesn't have the smarts or savvy of a guy like Kimmo. The point of a system is to eliminate mistakes by helping guys make simple decisions.

Same thing happened with Eminger. Eminger isn't a stupid player, but he's not exceptionally smart either. That's why he struggled here at times, particularly early in the year.

I wish we had a roster full of guys like Richards and Kimmo. But no NHL team (with the possible exception of Detroit), can ice a lineup where everybody is a strong defensive player. The point of a system is that it helps compensate for players' weaknesses.

Let's get this out there, Briere will always struggle defensively. But if you put him on a wing with 2 elite defensive players (Gagne and Richards say hello) and make sure he knows what to do in the defensive zone, he'll be fine.

There's a difference between being a below average defensive player and being a minus 22.
Great post, and the best explanation of the whole "system" issue that I can remember to date.....

Personally I dont care about Briere's struggles defensively. To add to what you said above, yes having Gagne and Richards or Hartnell and Carter play with Briere on the wing, that might help him cause then he doesnt have the defensive responsibilities of a center on the ice.......However, that still doesnt change the fact that this team plays crappy team defense to begin with, whether Briere is at center or wing. I think if they played better team defense, his deficiencies would not be so visible.

Detroit is a perfect example actually....No, they dont win the cup every year, but they recycle guys in and out of that lineup every year, and they still manage to play the same style of defense (system) that they have played for 15 years now. Why do you ask??? Because the players are given direction on where they need to be on the ice, where they should look for the breakout pass, or where they should be to receive the breakout pass.......This team plays pond hockey half the time like you said and they dont know where the hell to go.....The ones that would be good regardless of who or where they play like Richards and Timonen are good, but those that need some direction are not as effective like Carle, Eminger, Coburn, Briere, etc.

Hence why the "trap" was used by lesser talented teams in the past, and expansion teams, and teams like the NYI were able to compete the last couple years. The players were given direction and asked to play within their limits.

If you ask Jason Smith or Derian Hatcher to skate the puck up the ice you are asking for trouble. If you ask their partner to go to an opening where they can get them the puck with a short pass, and those guys know 9-10 times that player is going to be in position, it becomes much easier to move the puck

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01-06-2009, 04:24 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
i see constient and reliable as close. clutch is the opposite of reliable. its having another level to bring out when you really gotta step up. some guys can find that 10% and give it and some guys cant. claude lemieux was clutch. patrick roy was clutch. a few years ago eric lindros was clutch against the rangers. its that ability to find more when youve already given all you have. to play better then you are. if you could reliably play that way youd just be better.
Okay, I'll agree with that. But it comes full circle back to what I said earlier. Briere is clutch. He can find that extra 10% and has done it before (his shootout winner last year over Buffalo against Ryan Miller to snap our horrible losing streak and his own lack of productivity comes to mind).

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01-06-2009, 04:39 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Great post, and the best explanation of the whole "system" issue that I can remember to date.....

Personally I dont care about Briere's struggles defensively. To add to what you said above, yes having Gagne and Richards or Hartnell and Carter play with Briere on the wing, that might help him cause then he doesnt have the defensive responsibilities of a center on the ice.......However, that still doesnt change the fact that this team plays crappy team defense to begin with, whether Briere is at center or wing. I think if they played better team defense, his deficiencies would not be so visible.

Detroit is a perfect example actually....No, they dont win the cup every year, but they recycle guys in and out of that lineup every year, and they still manage to play the same style of defense (system) that they have played for 15 years now. Why do you ask??? Because the players are given direction on where they need to be on the ice, where they should look for the breakout pass, or where they should be to receive the breakout pass.......This team plays pond hockey half the time like you said and they dont know where the hell to go.....The ones that would be good regardless of who or where they play like Richards and Timonen are good, but those that need some direction are not as effective like Carle, Eminger, Coburn, Briere, etc.

Hence why the "trap" was used by lesser talented teams in the past, and expansion teams, and teams like the NYI were able to compete the last couple years. The players were given direction and asked to play within their limits.

If you ask Jason Smith or Derian Hatcher to skate the puck up the ice you are asking for trouble. If you ask their partner to go to an opening where they can get them the puck with a short pass, and those guys know 9-10 times that player is going to be in position, it becomes much easier to move the puck
Yeah, I've been watching some playoff games from 03-04 (just for the heck of it, a lot of entertaining games), and we hardly ever got pinned in our zone. I mean, getting pinned in our zone is a habitual thing for the team right now, probably happens 15 to 20 times per game.

You watch the Flyers teams of 2003-2004 and it's all slick outlets and just getting the puck out of the zone. Were we Detroit? No way. But guys always knew what they had to do.

Hitch is doing it again with CLB and succeeding even though that team has no offense outside of Nash and Brassard (and Brassard is done for the year).

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01-06-2009, 05:09 PM
  #118
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jeebus... everyone's going crazy over this topic.

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01-06-2009, 06:03 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Amateur Hour View Post
Hindsight is always 20/20. The bottom line remains, the Flyers went into the '07 off-season NEEDING to make a splash after that horrendous '06/'07 campaign. Standing pat was just not going to happen, especially given how this team has always operated. I'm sure the front office also envisioned it taking a couple more seasons for Richards and Carter to really break out the way they have. Despite his contract, Briere is still an elite talent who can help this team. With him in the lineup, Stevens has the option of fielding three dangerous scoring lines that will make the opposition pick its poison.
I agree with all of that, except the last part.

If Stevens fields those three lines he will have to, given cap constraints, also have to dress two defensemen who don't really belong in the NHL and stretch Vaananen to second pairing. And that's with no injuries back there.

Conundrum.

I agree with all else you said. They HAD to sign someone. Briere's a good player. I sure didn't expect Carter and Richards to be this far this year.

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01-06-2009, 06:43 PM
  #120
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I agree with all of that, except the last part.

If Stevens fields those three lines he will have to, given cap constraints, also have to dress two defensemen who don't really belong in the NHL and stretch Vaananen to second pairing. And that's with no injuries back there.

Conundrum.

I agree with all else you said. They HAD to sign someone. Briere's a good player. I sure didn't expect Carter and Richards to be this far this year.
Salary cap doesn't exist in the playoffs if I recall correctly.

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01-06-2009, 07:38 PM
  #121
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sigh.. half the guys here that say that they wish we didnt sign Briere act like they knew last year Richards was going to come out of no where and play amazingly. No we didnt know that. We needed a legit first line center to play with Gags and at the time Knuble. With the departure of Forsberg, we did not have a #1 center.

Now we get Briere, he comes in and plays for us. He signs for a long deal hopefully to stay here and make the Flyers a better team. He gets a big contract cause at the time other teams were looking toget him also. Homer see's this and decides that Briere is the better choice over Gomez and Drury. Briere in the end will lead us through the playoffs like he did last year. Then we will hear how we all love Briere.
These are the same people when were saying 2 years ago that Carter was a bust. They wanted us to trade Carter and whatever else it would take to get Seabrook. They are the same ones who said that with Briere we didn't need Carter and that he'd never amount to anything. They were blasting Clarke for wasting a pick on Carter and calling both of them stupid.

I tried to tell everyone to just be patient with Carter but again, everyone knows everything and you can't tell them anything. However, I'll look into my crystal ball again and tell you about some of our future players. Giroux will be a solid 2nd line player and will quickly develope at the pro level. It doesn't surprise me that he's look so solid from his first game up this year on. He's not playing like a rookie, he's playing with the composer and vision that you'd expect of someone with 3-4 years experience. He's going to remind a lot of people of Richards in just how quicly he "gets it". His true "gift" doesn't lie in natural or physical ability, it lies within his head. He's a very smart player and that makes his play much better at an earlier stage of his developement.

JVR is going to track very similarly to Carter. Most of you will be disappointed in his his first 2 years here as he'll look about average at best. However, JVR is both a great physical and natural talent and he will need time to transition his game to the NHL level. Be patien, just as it took until Carters 3rd season before we even began to see his potiential, so it will be with JVR too. Just as Carter has had a huge breakout season in his 4th season this year, I think the 4th season we will see a huge breakout for JVR.

Nodl, forget it, he's not a regular top 9 let alone a top 6 as many wanted to believe him to be. I remember seeing everyone falling all over themselves when he lead all freshmen when he was actually 2 years older than every other freshman. When compared to actual players his age in college, Nodl was middle of the pack at best. I said then that he had a lot to prove and honestly, he hasn't shown enough yet to warrent believing he's a solid NHLer in the making. He may still develope into one but the door is quickly closing (think Potulny).

Now for the defense. Bodrov is still a mystery, I just don't know enough about him to judge him or his future. Of the guys we have in the minors, Ratchuk is the best and he's a bottom pairing guy at best so don't count on any of them. Sbisa has great talent but he makes a ton of mistakes. The time has come for him to be returned to juniors where they can actually work on "teaching" him the little things he'll need for the future. Up with the Flyers and practicing in morning skates is not the place to be teaching a younger player how to play his position. You work on specific ways to counter what your next opponent does well, you work on drills, you work on set plays, and you work on plays as a team (this includes learning the tendacies of you teammates). Sbisa is just overwhelmed by the dramatic talent and speed difference between the NHL and playing in juniors against kids his own age. He needs 2 more years before he's ready. Keeping him here will only hurt his future, he's progressing far less being here than he would if he were back in juniors.

Kevin Marshall, boy I really like this kid. I know it's still early but I think he's going to be a solid 2nd pairing dman. I think he'll remind people a lot of Parent, a bit more physical than Parent but probably not quite as good devensively as a shut down guy. I really think he's the only one outside of Sbisa right now who has the chance to be a solid NHLer (barring Bodrov) out of our defensive prospects. I guess Bourdon could still develope into a 3rd pairing guys but I think it's a longshot (much like Ratchuk I believe).

There you go, that's about all there is to get excited over.

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01-06-2009, 09:13 PM
  #122
JXC
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Salary cap doesn't exist in the playoffs if I recall correctly.
Maybe they'll just keep getting "injured" until April comes around, then.

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01-06-2009, 09:26 PM
  #123
Ri hards
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Maybe they'll just keep getting "injured" until April comes around, then.
if it works it works....

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01-06-2009, 09:31 PM
  #124
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I like metro more than Jones lol. Briere needs to stay here if we want a cup. Simple as that. I hate the Salary Cap. lol.

Carle>Jones
Briere, Carter, Richards > any 3 lines on one team

Gags - Richards - Knuble/Giroux
Hartnell - Carter - Lupul
Upshall - Briere - Knuble/Giroux
Cote/Gratton - Metro - Asham

I really like those lines for the Playoffs. I don't think anyone can really match up with that.

Now, with that we are still not Cap compliant, so I would vote to move: Randy Jones, Andrew Alberts, and Joffrey Lupul (as much as I don't want to, I'm not a cap wizard by any means, and if there is a way to keep Lupul without imploding this team, I would do that.) or Mike Knuble (Hes more valuable to us in the playoffs.)

Bring up Parent, because Parent is 1000 times better than Jones will ever be. Get him into game shape for the playoffs, hes real good without the huge cap hit.
How about:
Gags Richards Knuble
Hartnell Carter Lupul
Upshall Briere Giroux
Kalinski Metro Asham

No need at all for Gratton or Cote in the playoffs.

I know this is a Briere trade rumor thread but it's not going to happen and it would be dumb anyway. I'd like to see him make about a million less but we had to do something after the worst season in team history and he was the best free agent available. Still want Drury or Gomez instead of Briere? - I don't. Gomez is an overpaid lazy turd (projects to 55 points and -20) and Drury is small, slow and overpaid (projects to 55 points and -8) though not a turd.


Last edited by Gert B Frobe: 01-06-2009 at 09:39 PM.
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Old
01-07-2009, 09:28 AM
  #125
mikedifr
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Originally Posted by Mountaineer View Post
How about:
Gags Richards Knuble
Hartnell Carter Lupul
Upshall Briere Giroux
Kalinski Metro Asham

No need at all for Gratton or Cote in the playoffs.

I know this is a Briere trade rumor thread but it's not going to happen and it would be dumb anyway. I'd like to see him make about a million less but we had to do something after the worst season in team history and he was the best free agent available. Still want Drury or Gomez instead of Briere? - I don't. Gomez is an overpaid lazy turd (projects to 55 points and -20) and Drury is small, slow and overpaid (projects to 55 points and -8) though not a turd.
I like the top 3 lines, but why Kalinski over Nodl??? I rather add more skill.

I agree there isnt much need for Cote in the playoffs though...

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