Trade Staal now, before his value dips; we need competent assets now, our future is set up with Crosby and Malkin, begin acquiring our depth through the draft, not by signing overpriced/over-the-hill free agents. I'm tired of watching Staal trudge around the ice, missing the net and getting chased down from behind.
/Frustrated Rant
Honestly though, I'm quite comfortable watching Staal become a star center somewhere else, if it means giving us equal return... he's not gonna become that star center here.
Trade Staal now, before his value dips; we need competent assets now, our future is set up with Crosby and Malkin, begin acquiring our depth through the draft, not by signing overpriced/over-the-hill free agents. I'm tired of watching Staal trudge around the ice, missing the net and getting chased down from behind.
/Frustrated Rant
Honestly though, I'm quite comfortable watching Staal become a star center somewhere else, if it means giving us equal return... he's not gonna become that star center here.
The only equal return I see is a huge offer sheet this summer.
I disagree.......I see the passion and the will to try to help the team. The fact is that he just isn't good enough right now. He doesn't work on the accuracy of his shot so that screws him over and I don't think he's much of a playmaker in this league. I mean he's going to be a John Madden clone throughout his career. For a #2 pick that pretty much is a bust.
I just feel that if he has the passion and will to help this team he would play like he did in that Detroit game more often. The kid has size but doesn't use it. He's showed decent hands at times, doesn't use em. Gets bumped off the puck all the time, gives up on the play.
This thread will eventually reach 100 pages... and he won't have been traded by then. Just my prediction.
Staal is more likely to get a $2.5 million deal than a $3.5 million deal as the days go on. $2.5 mil for a 3rd line shutdown center (who is going to get work on either Sid or Geno's wing during the rest of the season).
This thread will eventually reach 100 pages... and he won't have been traded by then. Just my prediction.
Staal is more likely to get a $2.5 million deal than a $3.5 million deal as the days go on. $2.5 mil for a 3rd line shutdown center (who is going to get work on either Sid or Geno's wing during the rest of the season).
Chances are that if Staal gets an offer-sheet, it will be in a range that makes it a real pain in the ass for us to match it, but yet not high enough to give us the top tier of compensation (4 1sts) or even the second tier of compensation. I don't remember the compensation scale off hand.
Personally, I don't want to trade Staal because I thinkthat he will be great (someday)..hopefully sooner than later.
Still with that said, trading away young players like Staal has not proven well for the penquins in the past...need I remind you all of the Naslund debacle. Or better yet...trading players becaused they are forced to do so for one reason or another also blows up in their faces...Jagr. I am paranoid..
one good winger for Sid isn't going to change the face of the team either...we suck right now..obviously, we don't have all of the right pieces (anymore).
The worst part is, all it takes is one team to offer Staal too much money. And if we match it, it could suddenly become extremely difficult to trade him.
We'd either have to pay him too much of our precious cap space while he slowly turns into whatever it is he turns into, or else lose him for possibly a very measly compensation package.
The worst part is, all it takes is one team to offer Staal too much money. And if we match it, it could suddenly become extremely difficult to trade him.
We'd either have to pay him too much of our precious cap space while he slowly turns into whatever it is he turns into, or else lose him for possibly a very measly compensation package.
If you match an offer sheet, you can't trade that player for a year ...
He can't WALK. They will offer him a qualifying contract offer, match if someone brings a contract (up to $4 million = 1st, 2nd and 3rd draft pick) and deal him in a year. Plus this would give him another season to try and become an elite winger with Sid Crosby.
That being said, if Staal doesn't show some life in the coming months, why would a GM offer him a $4 million deal? Remember, the cap is going down in 2010-11.
Last edited by Being Gene Malkovich: 01-06-2009 at 04:43 PM.
Personally, I don't want to trade Staal because I thinkthat he will be great (someday)..hopefully sooner than later.
Still with that said, trading away young players like Staal has not proven well for the penquins in the past...need I remind you all of the Naslund debacle. Or better yet...trading players becaused they are forced to do so for one reason or another also blows up in their faces...Jagr. I am paranoid..
one good winger for Sid isn't going to change the face of the team either...we suck right now..obviously, we don't have all of the right pieces (anymore).
The worst part is, all it takes is one team to offer Staal too much money. And if we match it, it could suddenly become extremely difficult to trade him.
We'd either have to pay him too much of our precious cap space while he slowly turns into whatever it is he turns into, or else lose him for possibly a very measly compensation package.
Yeah but Shero isn't an idiot. He's not going to let Staal go RFA status, and then match an offer he can't afford. Shero has a solid idea of what he wants to pay Staal, we have to assume. Yeah it's risky to not sign him and have others dictate Staal's market value but I think that is a better scenario than to make a bad trade.
I just hope they can come to a resolution for a while, like a 2-3 year deal. Because this is a terrible time to be making a definitive statement, one way or another, on Staal's future.
The worst part is, all it takes is one team to offer Staal too much money. And if we match it, it could suddenly become extremely difficult to trade him.
We'd either have to pay him too much of our precious cap space while he slowly turns into whatever it is he turns into, or else lose him for possibly a very measly compensation package.
The thing is, if he keeps playing poorly, he will command less money and most teams are cap stressed right now. I don't think you are going to see a radical 5 million/year deal on this player. I think teams will stay away because he hasn't shown the kind of consistency that you want to spend 5+ million on. If his season ends poorly the Pens will have some leverage and might say hey, "as a favor we will give you 3.5/3 years." I'm pretty sure the new CBA allows UFA age 23 but I could be off a couple of years. So he might go as low as 3mil./5. He is better than a 1-1.5 Dupuis/Talbot type but no where near as good as a 7+ million star.
The other side of the coin is that he plays great and helps the team actually win hockey games and then some fool comes around and offers him something crazy like 5 or even 6 million. I take the draft picks and wave goodbye without hesitation if that happens.
Most likely he will want a 5 year deal for at least 3 million a year but wont be able to demand more than 4 from any team. I'm guessing 3.5/5.
I'm only worried because of Shero's judgment. I find myself not trusting him, and he might over pay for Staal. That could be a critical error because the more he makes the harder he will be to trade if he turns into a bust in a couple of years.
The thing is, if he keeps playing poorly, he will command less money and most teams are cap stressed right now. I don't think you are going to see a radical 5 million/year deal on this player. I think teams will stay away because he hasn't shown the kind of consistency that you want to spend 5+ million on. If his season ends poorly the Pens will have some leverage and might say hey, "as a favor we will give you 3.5/3 years." I'm pretty sure the new CBA allows UFA age 23 but I could be off a couple of years. So he might go as low as 3mil./5. He is better than a 1-1.5 Dupuis/Talbot type but no where near as good as a 7+ million star.
The other side of the coin is that he plays great and helps the team actually win hockey games and then some fool comes around and offers him something crazy like 5 or even 6 million. I take the draft picks and wave goodbye without hesitation if that happens.
Most likely he will want a 5 year deal for at least 3 million a year but wont be able to demand more than 4 from any team. I'm guessing 3.5/5.
I'm only worried because of Shero's judgment. I find myself not trusting him, and he might over pay for Staal. That could be a critical error because the more he makes the harder he will be to trade if he turns into a bust in a couple of years.
Consistency doesn't appear to be an issue anymore re: making offer sheets. Penner was anything but consistent and he got $4.5 million. Vanek wasn't consistent before he signed his deal for what, $7 million? Staal falls somewhere in between so $5 million certainly isn't far-fetched.
We, of course, will never sign him for that much but someone might. Look around the NHL. A TON of teams have center situations much like our winger situation.
Consistency doesn't appear to be an issue anymore re: making offer sheets. Penner was anything but consistent and he got $4.5 million. Vanek wasn't consistent before he signed his deal for what, $7 million? Staal falls somewhere in between so $5 million certainly isn't far-fetched.
We, of course, will never sign him for that much but someone might. Look around the NHL. A TON of teams have center situations much like our winger situation.
Hopefully a lower cap and a lack of Kevin Lowe will reduce the amount of crazy offer sheets this offseason.
Personally, I don't want to trade Staal because I thinkthat he will be great (someday)..hopefully sooner than later.
Still with that said, trading away young players like Staal has not proven well for the penquins in the past...need I remind you all of the Naslund debacle. Or better yet...trading players becaused they are forced to do so for one reason or another also blows up in their faces...Jagr. I am paranoid..
one good winger for Sid isn't going to change the face of the team either...we suck right now..obviously, we don't have all of the right pieces (anymore).
Well said, it's just so frustrating right now to watch this team and we all want a quick fix. Hopefully the team learns some important lessons from this losing streak and Staal's poor play could save us some cash for the next few years.
Consistency doesn't appear to be an issue anymore re: making offer sheets. Penner was anything but consistent and he got $4.5 million. Vanek wasn't consistent before he signed his deal for what, $7 million? Staal falls somewhere in between so $5 million certainly isn't far-fetched.
We, of course, will never sign him for that much but someone might. Look around the NHL. A TON of teams have center situations much like our winger situation.
Good points. GMs usually can't resist spending someone elses money on something they feel they need. And there is always the "potential" value that the right situation will provide for a young player who looks buried on a checking line from the outside looking in.
If Penner could get that much I suppose there is no reason why Staal couldn't. Will Shero match it? We all know he scoffed at paying Malone around 4.5, but to let another winger walk, especially his #2 draft pick. I think he will give into foolish pride and sign him. Leaving the Penguins stuck with an over priced player who might be a complete bust as far as top 5 picks go.
He can't WALK. They will offer him a qualifying contract offer, match if someone brings a contract (up to $4 million = 1st, 2nd and 3rd draft pick) and deal him in a year. Plus this would give him another season to try and become an elite winger with Sid Crosby.
That being said, if Staal doesn't show some life in the coming months, why would a GM offer him a $4 million deal? Remember, the cap is going down in 2010-11.
I think that's $4 million 2005 dollars so actually up to 5.2 million today. The Oilers paid over $4 million for Dustin Penner. Really the first, second, third pick compensation is not a bad deal for a team if the first isn't a high one. You guys are dreaming if you think he will sign for $3 million. Everybody's hyping his defensive skills and how he almost hit 30 goals as a rookie. You don't think his agent hasn't noticed that as well?
If he sucks the second half how bad do you want him long term? If he rocks the second half somebody will write him an offer sheet and the Pens will lose him for picks in the 20s, 50s, and 80s.
What's a higher risk, that Staal will mature and excell or that the 25th pick over all will ever make the NHL? Even if the cap drops there will be teams that have the space, vets not resigned or whatever. The biggest impediment is probably the mindset some GMs have that if they leave others UFAs alone, theirs will be left alone.
I don't have a solution. i have suggested moving him in the past, but that assumed a pretty high return. If that return isn't offered it is a moot point.
Good points. GMs usually can't resist spending someone elses money on something they feel they need. And there is always the "potential" value that the right situation will provide for a young player who looks buried on a checking line from the outside looking in.
If Penner could get that much I suppose there is no reason why Staal couldn't. Will Shero match it? We all know he scoffed at paying Malone around 4.5, but to let another winger walk, especially his #2 draft pick. I think he will give into foolish pride and sign him. Leaving the Penguins stuck with an over priced player who might be a complete bust as far as top 5 picks go.
What do you think he will do?
I would think he wouldn't go above 3 or 3.5 for Staal, but i admittedly have more faith in Shero than you do. He seems to be very high on him based on some of his interviews, so you may be right.
The thing is, if he keeps playing poorly, he will command less money and most teams are cap stressed right now. I don't think you are going to see a radical 5 million/year deal on this player. I think teams will stay away because he hasn't shown the kind of consistency that you want to spend 5+ million on. If his season ends poorly the Pens will have some leverage and might say hey, "as a favor we will give you 3.5/3 years." I'm pretty sure the new CBA allows UFA age 23 but I could be off a couple of years. So he might go as low as 3mil./5. He is better than a 1-1.5 Dupuis/Talbot type but no where near as good as a 7+ million star.
The other side of the coin is that he plays great and helps the team actually win hockey games and then some fool comes around and offers him something crazy like 5 or even 6 million. I take the draft picks and wave goodbye without hesitation if that happens.
Most likely he will want a 5 year deal for at least 3 million a year but wont be able to demand more than 4 from any team. I'm guessing 3.5/5.
I'm only worried because of Shero's judgment. I find myself not trusting him, and he might over pay for Staal. That could be a critical error because the more he makes the harder he will be to trade if he turns into a bust in a couple of years.
Staal will become a UFA in 5 years at age 25. The rule is 7 years played in the NHL from your first season. This is the same with Crosby, and Malkin started when he was 20, so that brings him to the 27 year old UFA mark anyway.
