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Renney-Rangers need to get bigger and grittier for a playoff run

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01-05-2009, 01:05 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by gravytrain6t View Post
Not sure where this is coming from.
But one of my all time favorite players is a small guy. Joe Sakic.
The Rangers could have drafted him the year after they drafted Brian Leetch but I guess they thought like a few other teams. He was too small. Now if the Rangers would have drafted Sakic, I can't believe Keenen probably would have convinced Smith to trade him for Noonen.
the made the right pick

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01-05-2009, 07:21 AM
  #27
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IMO the Rangers don't have either the size or the talent and would have to make several moves to become a legitimate contender. A couple other things--1) agree with Dagoon that a Chris Neil would be a good addition. 2) I would have liked Byers to have made the team but he didn't really have a good enough training camp--and then came that injury. I think he's close though.

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01-05-2009, 07:35 AM
  #28
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This is not 1999 - we have plenty of grit and don't need any more. We DO need size (not because you necessarily need to have a huge lineup in today's game, but because with Prucha, Dawes, Cally, Gomez and Drury we have TOO many small players), but we have more than enough guys who play a "gritty" game. What we could use is a first line sniper.

Oh yeah - and a basic shift in strategy from Renney's sacrifice everything to cover on D back to the up tempo attacking team that Sather described over the summer.

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01-05-2009, 08:03 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by I Eat Crow View Post
We have a winner.


The problem the rangers have right now is that the Renney-sather realtionship is definitely student-teacher, whereas Keenan had such a tremendous reputation around the league (with messier's constant backing) that Neil Smith HAD to listen to what he had to say.

I mean the rangers trading Amonte and Gartner was such a blow to the fan base, but let's consider:


1) The Rangers were destroyed at home by the Blackhawks on national TV. Even though the Rangers had the best record in the league, the Hawks skated circles around them and Chelios totally shut down messier. That one game made Smith finally realize he had a 1992 clone and needed to make a move

2) The trades paid immediate dividends, as the Rangers earned a tie in Calgary (where they NEVER won) and then swept a huge home-and-home with NJ that would have decided 1st overall



As far as where the Rangers stand right now, they are clearly weak, timid and have a lot of perimeter guys.

The Rangers have a decent "core" of players but aren't one player or one line combination away from being a Cup Winner. They need a drastic overhaul like the did in 1994. Unfortunately, Smith tried it again in 1996 and it failed.

I haven't watched a single minute of the rangers since the washington game, and looking at the box scores, i am glad i haven't.

They either need to make a huge, daring move as daring as you can get in the Salary cap era) or plug away in mediocrity before failing to make the playoffs

There is no way Renney can convince sather to make trades the way Keenan did to Smith in 1994. i have a feeling Renney, if given the opportunity, would remove 25 percent of his current roster, For now we just have to pray sather has a rabbit up his sleeve because things are going to get worse once the rangers start plummeting down the EC standings

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01-05-2009, 08:06 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by we want cup View Post
Tom Renney just might be the most bland person in the entire world.
If by bland you mean intelligent and articulate, then yes.

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01-05-2009, 08:13 AM
  #31
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Renney helped design this team, yet now he is asking for bigger players?

Hes asking for bigger players because the players HE helped hand pick aren't conducive to his system. Seems kind of backwards doesnt it? Maybe he should try playing the system they should be playing first and then worry about turning the personnel over, AGAIN.

Whether it was a casual answer or not, he just contradicted himself big time.

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01-05-2009, 08:16 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Renney helped design this team, yet now he is asking for bigger players?

Hes asking for bigger players because the players HE helped hand pick aren't conducive to his system. Seems kind of backwards doesnt it? Maybe he should try playing the system they should be playing first and then worry about turning the personnel over, AGAIN.

Whether it was a casual answer or not, he just contradicted himself big time.
Maybe Renney realizes his team doesn't need to be a finished product on January 5.

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Old
01-05-2009, 08:25 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Sather and Renney dug their own grave in the off season with their constant talking of and commitment to a puck attack with small, shifty and pretty non-physical forwards (which we have way too many of) and "puck-moving" non-physical D-men such as Redden, Roszy and Kalinin...It worked good in Europet but, as expected, that was about it..Not sure it can be reversed this year, but I would still like a phyiscal relaibe D-man and strong forward with both some skill and jam...
I wouldn't say it was decision that put the franchise in a grave. The Devils are essentially built upon the same theory and have proven how effective it can be.

The problem is that the strategy is at odds with the theory. This group is effective when they pressure the puck, create turnovers, then turn them into transitional chances, but they rarely do it. Instead, they play this stand-around, safe, positional style that Colton Orr can execute effectively enough despite a relative absence of skill and speed.

Besides, who wouldn't want bigger, grittier players with speed and skill. Problem is, there aren't many Iginla's and Ovechkin's out there, and for the close options that are out there, the Rangers simply don't have access to them. They don't hit UFA and the team doesn't have the chips to acquire one. So, ok, it's nice to say that's the ideal team. Making it happen is a virtual impossibility for the Rangers.

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01-05-2009, 08:34 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Maybe Renney realizes his team doesn't need to be a finished product on January 5.
The team will never be a "finished product" with the cap problems they have. I dont see how that is relevant to my post.

He had a role in selecting players to play an uptempo, skill, puck possession game (those are words out of HIS mouth) but yet, after the players successfully showed him they could play that type of game mind you - he is now giving into the possibility that he needs more 4th line type players to play his defensive shell cycle game.

The Rangers have the players to succeed IMO, they dont need size. If you are going to add size, put it on defense. What the Rangers need is a more aggressive forechecking game, one they've showed in the past. That type of game can be played by the players the have - they played a pretty damn good defensive game on Saturday... its the offense and special teams that are a problem. Thats has a lot more to do with coaching than the size of the players IMO.

The post above me suggests that there really arent any players even available to fit the bill anyhow, let alone the need for them if this team were to be utilized correctly.

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01-05-2009, 08:35 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I wouldn't say it was decision that put the franchise in a grave. The Devils are essentially built upon the same theory and have proven how effective it can be.

The problem is that the strategy is at odds with the theory. This group is effective when they pressure the puck, create turnovers, then turn them into transitional chances, but they rarely do it. Instead, they play this stand-around, safe, positional style that Colton Orr can execute effectively enough despite a relative absence of skill and speed.

Besides, who wouldn't want bigger, grittier players with speed and skill. Problem is, there aren't many Iginla's and Ovechkin's out there, and for the close options that are out there, the Rangers simply don't have access to them. They don't hit UFA and the team doesn't have the chips to acquire one. So, ok, it's nice to say that's the ideal team. Making it happen is a virtual impossibility for the Rangers.
Exactamento.

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01-05-2009, 08:37 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
The team will never be a "finished product" with the cap problems they have. I dont see how that is relevant to my post.

He had a role in selecting players to play an uptempo, skill, puck possession game (those are words out of HIS mouth) but yet, after the players successfully showed him they could play that type of game mind you - he is now giving into the possibility that he needs more 4th line type players to play his defensive shell cycle game.

The Rangers have the players to succeed IMO, they dont need size. If you are going to add size, put it on defense. What the Rangers need is a more aggressive forechecking game, one they've showed in the past. That type of game can be played by the players the have - they played a pretty damn good defensive game on Saturday... its the offense and special teams that are a problem. Thats has a lot more to do with coaching than the size of the players IMO.
Another excellent post.

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01-05-2009, 08:40 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
The team will never be a "finished product" with the cap problems they have. I dont see how that is relevant to my post.

He had a role in selecting players to play an uptempo, skill, puck possession game (those are words out of HIS mouth) but yet, after the players successfully showed him they could play that type of game mind you - he is now giving into the possibility that he needs more 4th line type players to play his defensive shell cycle game.

The Rangers have the players to succeed IMO, they dont need size. If you are going to add size, put it on defense. What the Rangers need is a more aggressive forechecking game, one they've showed in the past. That type of game can be played by the players the have - they played a pretty damn good defensive game on Saturday... its the offense and special teams that are a problem. Thats has a lot more to do with coaching than the size of the players IMO.
It's relevant in your saying that he was he helped design the team and is now contradicting himself.

By finished product, I mean the team that takes the ice in October more often than not is not the same team that takes the ice in the first game of the playoffs.

The largest point to me is Serby asks a pretty open-ended and soft question and he gets an open-ended and soft answer.

Then again, the whole interview is hardly insightful.

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Old
01-05-2009, 09:01 AM
  #38
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Avery spent New Years with Gomez, Drury, Dawes, and Naslund. Maybe there really wasn't locker room issues after all.


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01-05-2009, 09:45 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Tom Renney with Steve Serby-NY Post



http://www.nypost.com/seven/01042009...180.htm?page=0

Renney is right but how do the Rangers get bigger and grittier?They team is built around smallish players.They resemble the Herb Brooks Smurf teams from the early 1980's.
This is nothing new, and the basically the same thing that Sather, and Perry Pearn touched on after the team lost to the Pens last year in the playoffs.

One of them said they thought they needed a bigger presence in thier top 6.

And the other said they needed a physical presence on the blueline. This is basically the same thing that just about everyone here has been saying for the past two seasons.

I agree with one of the other posters out there. Would really love to see Exelby on the blueline here. But...I think he recently broke his leg, so, not sure what kind of a recoup time the guy needs...Or the extent of that injury.

Would love it if Sather could find a way to deal with the Yotes for Derek Morris and Daniel Carcillo. I don't think eithe rof those players are untouchable, and Morris is a free agent next season. Would love it if somehow they could send eithe rof Redden or Rosy there. Maybe with Voros? Or Dawes?

Also was thinking about Havelid who is a UFA next season too. Playing on Atl now, and one of the only players on the club with a positive +/-

But...none of those players really address the issues. I do think they would help, but Carcillo if he came here moe likely than not wouldn't be a top 6 player. Morris is more physical than either Redden or Rosy but again doesn't really add that mean nasty SOB attitude to the blueline. Havelid I think would fit in, and maybe add some communication, and chemistry with Lundy in his own end.

Just don't know too mayn other alternatives here. Tough physical defenseman aren't a dime a dozen anymore. When you find one able to compete in the new NHL, he is not likely to be moved. Especially to a team that is battling to stay under the cap.

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Old
01-05-2009, 04:55 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I wouldn't say it was decision that put the franchise in a grave. The Devils are essentially built upon the same theory and have proven how effective it can be.

The problem is that the strategy is at odds with the theory. This group is effective when they pressure the puck, create turnovers, then turn them into transitional chances, but they rarely do it. Instead, they play this stand-around, safe, positional style that Colton Orr can execute effectively enough despite a relative absence of skill and speed.
DING DING DING DING DING DING DING!

We have a winner!

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Old
01-05-2009, 05:12 PM
  #41
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Antropov PLEASE!!!!!!

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01-05-2009, 05:42 PM
  #42
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Antropov and Tkachuk.

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Old
01-07-2009, 09:00 PM
  #43
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The Rangers needs to bring back someone like Avery immediatyely. This team needs someone who knows how to light a spark and get in theother teams faces. Thats what wins hockey games.

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01-07-2009, 09:38 PM
  #44
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Thats awesome.

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Old
01-07-2009, 09:43 PM
  #45
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I can't help but to think of Avery as a hockey player version of Barney Stinson from How I Met Your Mother...only with a slightly more odd view of fashion.

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01-07-2009, 10:38 PM
  #46
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The Rangers need one of two things:
1) for Korpikoski to pick up his play and start to put up at least a moderate amount of points while using his size and strength to forecheck(ala callahan)
2) to trade for a bigger forward to play with Dubinsky who can keep up with him.

As I see it the only spot right now that is still being still up for grabs is the spot that voros/korpikoski are in.

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