HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Who's a better fit for Habs? Kaberle or Kubina?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-08-2009, 04:26 PM
  #101
BaseballCoach
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HABIMUS-MAXIMUS View Post
I don't see a lot of the Leafs games, so I was wondering for those who know more about them than I do, who's better? Or who's a better fit for us..........PLUS, who would cost more?

Kaberle: Offensive?
Kubina: Defensive?

Thanks for the info.....
Kaberle is a better overall player, very similar to Markov. That being said, I would rather pay the lower price to get Kubina, who is more physical, right-handed and shoots much more than Tomas does. Not only that, but the shot is HARD.

BaseballCoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2009, 12:42 AM
  #102
le_sean
Registered User
 
le_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 15,115
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeysense View Post
How many times have you made it to the Semi-finals after 1993? You know I really have no comeback for this, but since I have to reiterate, the Habs have no chance in hell of making a run with the kind of defense and lack of heart they have right now.
That's great, who the **** cares about Semi-Finals? That's right, teams that cannot win Cups in over 40 years.

Yup they lack defence alright, how about looking at the teams Goals Against? That would be a good start for you.

And they really lacked heart tonight.

Have fun with the rebuild, beginning with Brad May LOL.

le_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2009, 06:09 AM
  #103
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,918
vCash: 500
Kubina's had one good year for TB the year they won, he is vastly overrated and overpaid. Kaberle is a lot like Markov but seems to have lost his desire in Toronto, I think a change of scenery would do him a ton of good. I'll add the mobile guy before the flat footed slow guy.

Plus Kaberle is signed 2 more years at a cheap 4.25 mil per year.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2009, 09:31 AM
  #104
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HABIMUS-MAXIMUS View Post
I don't see a lot of the Leafs games, so I was wondering for those who know more about them than I do, who's better? Or who's a better fit for us..........PLUS, who would cost more?

Kaberle: Offensive?
Kubina: Defensive?

Thanks for the info.....
It's funny, a buddy and I were discussing this last night. I was telling him why trade away a ton of players for Jaybo when florida might not even want to deal him depending on their position, when the leafs have Kaberle/Kubina! Also if D'ago and Pax play really well up until Higgins comes back, then where do we fit higgins? If he isn't playing well, we won't even be playing him because if D'Ago and Pax are putting up tons of points, why would be put a guy in who is a big "?". That having been said, we have room to move a forward, we also have tons of prospects and picks. Imo we could land Kubina cause he only has one more year left in his contract. Then again, Kaberle has two years left and is cheaper, imo if we have to give up Higgins/Pick/Prospect for kubina at around 5 million, who is signed for 1 extra season, why not just go all out and throw Halak into that mix and grab Kaberle who is signed for 1 extra year at a cheaper rate.

I know it may not sound like TO would make this trade, but imo they would do it in a heartbeat because they're looking to rebuild. Picks/Prospects and Higgins/Halak for 1 player (kaberle) doesn't sound like a bad idea from either teams perspective. TO isn't winning any cups anytime soon, they could use said prospect/pick to build a team, and halak could either be a #1 goalie or if they sign someone else, a #2. Maybe TO could even send us a really **** player along with Kaberle to dump some salary this way they could sign a guy like Jaybo in the offseason, who knows.

But imo taking away an AHL prospect, a pick, a higgins, and maybe even a halak if Price is healthy at deadline, to me doesn't sound like that bad a deal. If you take away Halak and switch the d-man to Kubina, it wouldn't be too bad a deal either imo.

Truth is, the habs have way too many forwards now and Plekanec/Higgins simply aren't producing and Higgins has been a real big let down thus far in his career. Problem is, we still need a center so we'd likely have to let go of higgins (who I would rather keep over plek but still).

Anyways, some of you will probably think that:

Higgins/Prospect/Pick for Kubina
or
Higgins/Halak/Prospect/Pick for Kaberle is crazy overpayment, but imo you've gotta give up a lot to get a solid d-man at the deadline, and toronto is looking to rebuild.

The only problem I can see with these trades is that MTL gives up a lot but at least we get players who are signed for either 1 or 2 more seasons at a fair price. Not Jaybo who will walk and then we have lost him and whatever we gave up.

Keep in mind, I too worry about what will happen if Price gets injured and we only have Denis to replace him (like if we traded Halak) but does anyone here honestly think Halak would bring us the cup ANYWAYS if Price gets injured? To win the cup we need Price healthy regardless imho. This is why I say these two trades I mentioned could work for both teams and at least Gainey doesn't look like an idiot cause Kaberle/Kubina are not impending UFA's.

I know this must sound like crazy talk to you all, but we have Chipchura/Max Pac/D'Ago all fighting for a roster spot, they're actually producing unlike Higgins. Not that I don't think by deadline if Higgins comes back he might be doing better, it could happen, but I'm saying based on the assumption that by deadline regardless of higgins being back, playing well or crap, D'Ago or Max Pac is playing well.

We do have too many forwards once healthy, and we do have the depth to replace people up front if injured.

Imo this trade would bring us back our PP. Imagine having a line up of:

Markov-Komisarek
Kaberle-Gorges
Hamrlik-Brisebois(subbing in bouillon)

or

Markov-Komisarek
Kubina-Gorges
Hamrlik-Brisebois

Anyways, that's just what my friend and I were discussing. I'm sure some of you fans out there will find ways to debunk this idea or paint me out to be a mad man But I figured I'd give my two cents because if it's Kaberle vs Kubina vs Jaybo we're targetting at deadline, I'd rather we give up a bit more for someone who is signed, then give up marginally less for a guy who isn't and will walk at the end of the season.

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2009, 09:33 AM
  #105
Pascal
Registered User
 
Pascal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,467
vCash: 500
Kubina = hard shot, big body
Kaberle = rarely shoots, more of a passing all-around dman ala Markov

Pascal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2009, 09:43 AM
  #106
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
Kubina = hard shot, big body
Kaberle = rarely shoots, more of a passing all-around dman ala Markov
I think either would be a nice fit. I'd likely prefer Kaberle because of his extra year in contract as well as being affordable

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2009, 09:44 AM
  #107
Pascal
Registered User
 
Pascal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,467
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I think either would be a nice fit. I'd likely prefer Kaberle because of his extra year in contract as well as being affordable
either one would be a huge huge upgrade for sure.

Pascal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2009, 02:36 PM
  #108
FreeBird
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 5,769
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brisk-Illusion View Post
Kaberle is much better than Kubina in every way. He's also signed to a better contract and would cost more assets to acquire.

I wouldn't want Kubina, just because he's signed through next year, for Kaberle I would offer up to a 1st rd 09' pick + Chipchura/Maxwell + mid-level prospect.
Doubt the Habs would trade a 1st rd pick in 09 because their hosting the Draft.

FreeBird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2009, 07:00 PM
  #109
Agnostic
11 Stanley Cups
 
Agnostic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,237
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cap10bfl View Post
thats exactly what i said...

ray ferraro THINKS kaberle would be willing to waive his clause to come here...
Just as these sentences are the same?

1) If I'm cap10bfl I'm embarassed at how I misunderstood what Ray Ferraro said.

2) I think cap10bfl is embarrassed that he misunderstood what Ray Ferraro said.


not the same. :-)

Agnostic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2009, 08:23 PM
  #110
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Chucky breakout year
 
Marc the Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Longueuil
Country: Canada
Posts: 53,529
vCash: 626
Hypothetical scenario:

Higgins + O'Byrne + pick or prospect for Kaberle.

2009-10 Habs cap hit or guess
Price 2,200,000.00
Halak 775,000.00
Markov 5,750,000.00
Hamrlik 5,500,000.00
Komisarek 5,000,000.00
Gorges 1,100,000.00
Kaberle 4,250,000.00
Weber 875,000.00
7th D 500,000.00
Plekanec 3,000,000.00
Koivu 5,000,000.00
Chipchura 800,000.00
Lapierre 687,500.00
A. Kostitsyn 3,250,000.00
Tanguay 5,500,000.00
Pacioretty 875,000.00
Latendresse 1,250,000.00
Kovalev 5,500,000.00
S. Kostitsyn 816,667.00
D'Agostini 600,000.00
Laraque 1,500,000.00

Total = 54,729,167.00 (21 players)

It would all fit in, even with Koivu, Kovalev and Tanguay re-signed to hefty contracts.

The headaches would begin the following year, especially if the cap drops below 50 M as many expect. Which is why Kubina is a more desirable option to some since his contract expires after the 2009-10 season.

Marc the Habs Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2009, 11:20 PM
  #111
ChuckyToGally
Former Carey Roy
 
ChuckyToGally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,990
vCash: 500
I would prefer Kaberle but I could live with Kubina since we really need a RD.

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Kovalev
Tanguay-Koivu-D'Agostini
SKostitsyn-Lang-AKostitsyn
Latendresse-Lapierre-Kostopoulos
Bégin-Laraque

Markov-Komisarek
Hamrlik-Kubina
Bouillon-Gorges
Brisebois

Price
Halak

This team could go REALLY far IMO!

ChuckyToGally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-09-2009, 11:57 PM
  #112
WildWolfdog
Registered User
 
WildWolfdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 490
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
It's funny, a buddy and I were discussing this last night. I was telling him why trade away a ton of players for Jaybo when florida might not even want to deal him depending on their position, when the leafs have Kaberle/Kubina! Also if D'ago and Pax play really well up until Higgins comes back, then where do we fit higgins? If he isn't playing well, we won't even be playing him because if D'Ago and Pax are putting up tons of points, why would be put a guy in who is a big "?". That having been said, we have room to move a forward, we also have tons of prospects and picks. Imo we could land Kubina cause he only has one more year left in his contract. Then again, Kaberle has two years left and is cheaper, imo if we have to give up Higgins/Pick/Prospect for kubina at around 5 million, who is signed for 1 extra season, why not just go all out and throw Halak into that mix and grab Kaberle who is signed for 1 extra year at a cheaper rate.

I know it may not sound like TO would make this trade, but imo they would do it in a heartbeat because they're looking to rebuild. Picks/Prospects and Higgins/Halak for 1 player (kaberle) doesn't sound like a bad idea from either teams perspective. TO isn't winning any cups anytime soon, they could use said prospect/pick to build a team, and halak could either be a #1 goalie or if they sign someone else, a #2. Maybe TO could even send us a really **** player along with Kaberle to dump some salary this way they could sign a guy like Jaybo in the offseason, who knows.

But imo taking away an AHL prospect, a pick, a higgins, and maybe even a halak if Price is healthy at deadline, to me doesn't sound like that bad a deal. If you take away Halak and switch the d-man to Kubina, it wouldn't be too bad a deal either imo.

Truth is, the habs have way too many forwards now and Plekanec/Higgins simply aren't producing and Higgins has been a real big let down thus far in his career. Problem is, we still need a center so we'd likely have to let go of higgins (who I would rather keep over plek but still).

Anyways, some of you will probably think that:

Higgins/Prospect/Pick for Kubina
or
Higgins/Halak/Prospect/Pick for Kaberle is crazy overpayment, but imo you've gotta give up a lot to get a solid d-man at the deadline, and toronto is looking to rebuild.

The only problem I can see with these trades is that MTL gives up a lot but at least we get players who are signed for either 1 or 2 more seasons at a fair price. Not Jaybo who will walk and then we have lost him and whatever we gave up.

Keep in mind, I too worry about what will happen if Price gets injured and we only have Denis to replace him (like if we traded Halak) but does anyone here honestly think Halak would bring us the cup ANYWAYS if Price gets injured? To win the cup we need Price healthy regardless imho. This is why I say these two trades I mentioned could work for both teams and at least Gainey doesn't look like an idiot cause Kaberle/Kubina are not impending UFA's.

I know this must sound like crazy talk to you all, but we have Chipchura/Max Pac/D'Ago all fighting for a roster spot, they're actually producing unlike Higgins. Not that I don't think by deadline if Higgins comes back he might be doing better, it could happen, but I'm saying based on the assumption that by deadline regardless of higgins being back, playing well or crap, D'Ago or Max Pac is playing well.

We do have too many forwards once healthy, and we do have the depth to replace people up front if injured.

Imo this trade would bring us back our PP. Imagine having a line up of:

Markov-Komisarek
Kaberle-Gorges
Hamrlik-Brisebois(subbing in bouillon)

or

Markov-Komisarek
Kubina-Gorges
Hamrlik-Brisebois

Anyways, that's just what my friend and I were discussing. I'm sure some of you fans out there will find ways to debunk this idea or paint me out to be a mad man But I figured I'd give my two cents because if it's Kaberle vs Kubina vs Jaybo we're targetting at deadline, I'd rather we give up a bit more for someone who is signed, then give up marginally less for a guy who isn't and will walk at the end of the season.
That's a pretty good post and solid reasoning as well - the only thing I'd say is that Toronto is probably not interested in Halak since they have Pogge developing in the minors until Toskala's contract runs out. And even if Pogge is a bust (God forbid, LOL) I doubt that Halak is what interests them.

Something like Higgins + Max/McD (I'd prefer McDonagh) + 1st would easily get Montreal Kaberle. That may be a high price to pay in Habs fans eyes but I think that's the kind of package it would take.

WildWolfdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2009, 12:10 AM
  #113
FerrisRox
Registered User
 
FerrisRox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,410
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeysense View Post
Again, the Leafs are not going to trade one of their top-pairings to a division rival. To even think of it is asinine.
Yeah, that would be like the Pittsburgh Penguins trading Jaromir Jagr to the Washington Capitals.

That'd never happen.

FerrisRox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2009, 01:50 AM
  #114
compile
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,223
vCash: 500
Neither.

Jay-Bo would be the ultimate choice for a defense-man. He's quick, can shoot the puck, good offensive and defensive skills and he's only 25.

I'd rather risk losing Komisarek to free-agency for Jay-Bo's signature on a 5 year deal then give anything to the Leafs.

compile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2009, 07:33 AM
  #115
JAVO16
Registered User
 
JAVO16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,707
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Hypothetical scenario:

Higgins + O'Byrne + pick or prospect for Kaberle.

2009-10 Habs cap hit or guess
Price 2,200,000.00
Halak 775,000.00
Markov 5,750,000.00
Hamrlik 5,500,000.00
Komisarek 5,000,000.00
Gorges 1,100,000.00
Kaberle 4,250,000.00
Weber 875,000.00
7th D 500,000.00
Plekanec 3,000,000.00
Koivu 5,000,000.00
Chipchura 800,000.00
Lapierre 687,500.00
A. Kostitsyn 3,250,000.00
Tanguay 5,500,000.00
Pacioretty 875,000.00
Latendresse 1,250,000.00
Kovalev 5,500,000.00
S. Kostitsyn 816,667.00
D'Agostini 600,000.00
Laraque 1,500,000.00

Total = 54,729,167.00 (21 players)

It would all fit in, even with Koivu, Kovalev and Tanguay re-signed to hefty contracts.

The headaches would begin the following year, especially if the cap drops below 50 M as many expect. Which is why Kubina is a more desirable option to some since his contract expires after the 2009-10 season.
Yeah, but that's the problem. Kubina has a bigger cap hit than Kaberle and probably wouldn't fit under he cap even in the best scenario which would keep us from signing Komisarek.

Kaberle could probably be traded however after next year I guess, so I believe he would still be an option. I would not however go after him if we had to include one of Patches/Mcdo/Subban in the trade.

I'd be all in though for a Higgins+O'Byrne+1st for Kaberle.

I'd probably be even more interested in giving one of Weber or Carle instead of O'Byrne. My reasoning is that we'd be able to trade Hamrlik at the draft to get back something like a mid 1st-rounder and keep Kaberle for the next few years. I sincerely think Kaberle would be a better long term investment than Hamrlik since he's younger and even though he's probably weaker than Hammer defensively, he's worlds better in the O-zone. O'Byrne could then develop with a good puck mover like Kaberle which would be similar to Komisarek developping with Markov IMO.

Imagine these pairings if O'Byrne became anywhere close to Komisarek( yes, I still have faith in O'Byrne):

Markov-Komisarek
Kaberle-O'Byrne
Gorges- plugger( Bouillon or one of the remaining Carle/Weber)


Last edited by JAVO16: 01-10-2009 at 07:49 AM.
JAVO16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2009, 10:41 AM
  #116
toshiro
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Western Canuckland
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,951
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to toshiro
Kaberle

It isnt about a certain type. Would the habs turn down Lafleur because he was a small speedy forward. Kaberle is a number one defensemen and easly a number 2 on all teams except the Ducks. He would vault the Habs into elite status. If the Habs get healthy and Lang turns it on watch out. It would only take Higgins and Obyrne. He wants out. Man he can move the puck and has good hockey sense. 5 on 5 improves dramatically. An all star for 4.5 million? Where do we sign?

toshiro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2009, 10:46 AM
  #117
smon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,989
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FerrisRox View Post
Yeah, that would be like the Pittsburgh Penguins trading Jaromir Jagr to the Washington Capitals.

That'd never happen.
Not to mention the Leafs being all set to trade Sundin to Montreal at last year's deadline.

smon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:11 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.