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"This team just doesnt have enough offensive players"

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Old
01-04-2009, 09:39 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Is it possible...just possible, that we DO have the horses to be score goals?
No. Chosen and sting36e have already pretty well stated what I would, but I'll toss in a few numbers they didnt:

It's all well and good to say Shanny had 40 goals the year before. That ignores the fact that he played on a superior Red Wings team that ended the year with 305 goals and a .756 winning percentage. Fact of the matter is that he played with better players and was able to post .49 GPG.

DESPITE that, he posted .43 goals/game with the Rangers the following year. This is not a substantial dropoff. You also don't bother to state that he had his most productive playoffs since the 01-02 Red Wings team. That playoff performance was just as much a product of Renney's system.


It's all well and good to say Drury scored 37 goals the year before he became a Ranger; it's all well and good to call him a "multiple 30-goal scorer" ... although it seems to me that with exactly TWO 30-goal seasons in eight years, your use of the "multiple" is entirely disingenuous. What you've not mentioned is that the 25 goals he posated that first year under Renney was his highest total in every other season EXCEPT his pair of 30-goal seasons. So it is, presumably, Tom Renney's "fault" that he scored more goals than he did with the Flames and Avalanche, including two years skating on Joe Sakic's left flank.


Bringing Scott Gomez into a post that begins, "Its just amazing though isnt it? Its always the players fault that this team can not score goals." Scott Gomez has never scored goals. Devils fans laughed at the signing for this reason, and they were right to do so. Including him in any conversation about scoring goals is ridiculous.


Last edited by dedalus: 01-04-2009 at 10:14 AM.
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01-04-2009, 10:37 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
No. Chosen and sting36e have already pretty well stated what I would, but I'll toss in a few numbers they didnt:

It's all well and good to say Shanny had 40 goals the year before. That ignores the fact that he played on a superior Red Wings team that ended the year with 305 goals and a .756 winning percentage. Fact of the matter is that he played with better players and was able to post .49 GPG.

DESPITE that, he posted .43 goals/game with the Rangers the following year. This is not a substantial dropoff. You also don't bother to state that he had his most productive playoffs since the 01-02 Red Wings team. That playoff performance was just as much a product of Renney's system.


It's all well and good to say Drury scored 37 goals the year before he became a Ranger; it's all well and good to call him a "multiple 30-goal scorer" ... although it seems to me that with exactly TWO 30-goal seasons in eight years, your use of the "multiple" is entirely disingenuous. What you've not mentioned is that the 25 goals he posated that first year under Renney was his highest total in every other season EXCEPT his pair of 30-goal seasons. So it is, presumably, Tom Renney's "fault" that he scored more goals than he did with the Flames and Avalanche, including two years skating on Joe Sakic's left flank.


Bringing Scott Gomez into a post that begins, "Its just amazing though isnt it? Its always the players fault that this team can not score goals." Scott Gomez has never scored goals. Devils fans laughed at the signing for this reason, and they were right to do so. Including him in any conversation about scoring goals is ridiculous.
Looking over some stats and with pretty much the rest of the league catching up to us in games played we are 3rd overall in the league in shots on goal(4th in the league in shots per game 32.2).....Obviously i cant say how many were quality shots as opposed to perimeter ones but i do agree Renney is to blame for a little (def for sitting prucha for as long as he did) and maybe even his lack of motivation during games but his system cant be all bad when your fourth in the league in shots per game its plain and simple we have no quality goal scorers. The problem mostly fall on the players for our inabilty to score and we had plenty of chances the caps game but didnt convert.....also Prucha rules


Last edited by BrianLeetch2: 01-04-2009 at 10:57 AM.
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Old
01-04-2009, 10:57 AM
  #28
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the Rangers' shots are not quality. Just look at last night's game - long shots that were easily gobbled up because the goaltender had full sight of the shot. They skate, shoot, and turn the other way. They don't setup. Of course, in the past everyone complained the Rangers didn't shoot enough and hated the setup. They just can't seem to get it right.

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01-04-2009, 10:59 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by dedalus View Post
No. Chosen and sting36e have already pretty well stated what I would, but I'll toss in a few numbers they didnt:

It's all well and good to say Shanny had 40 goals the year before. That ignores the fact that he played on a superior Red Wings team that ended the year with 305 goals and a .756 winning percentage. Fact of the matter is that he played with better players and was able to post .49 GPG.

DESPITE that, he posted .43 goals/game with the Rangers the following year. This is not a substantial dropoff. You also don't bother to state that he had his most productive playoffs since the 01-02 Red Wings team. That playoff performance was just as much a product of Renney's system.


It's all well and good to say Drury scored 37 goals the year before he became a Ranger; it's all well and good to call him a "multiple 30-goal scorer" ... although it seems to me that with exactly TWO 30-goal seasons in eight years, your use of the "multiple" is entirely disingenuous. What you've not mentioned is that the 25 goals he posated that first year under Renney was his highest total in every other season EXCEPT his pair of 30-goal seasons. So it is, presumably, Tom Renney's "fault" that he scored more goals than he did with the Flames and Avalanche, including two years skating on Joe Sakic's left flank.


Bringing Scott Gomez into a post that begins, "Its just amazing though isnt it? Its always the players fault that this team can not score goals." Scott Gomez has never scored goals. Devils fans laughed at the signing for this reason, and they were right to do so. Including him in any conversation about scoring goals is ridiculous.
Drury was always a good support scorer with a talent for coming through in real clutch situations--not really an offensive leader. Real clutch situations aren't everyday things. Gomez was always a setup guy. He needs to play with somebody who can finish. For whatever reason last year there was no real chemistry between him and Jagr who might have qualified for that--perhaps because Jagr is not strictly a finisher and perhaps because both need to have the puck. Shanahan was the other qualifed to be called a finisher but he's just about done. There is nobody on the current squad that seems to fit the mold of player that Gomez needs with maybe the exception of Dawes. This team anyway as I see it is screwed whether it somehow manages to make the playoffs or not. The talent isn't there. It's made of 2nd and 3rd liners. If it were possible it would be better to blow up the whole thing--keep your young players and start from scratch.

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01-04-2009, 11:05 AM
  #30
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I can't say I watched Drury play 82 games a season prior to becoming a Ranger; heck, I can't say I watched him more than a 1/2 dozen times, but I've heard the word clutch associated with him a lot, as we all have, and quite frankly, it's a term I'm getting sick of, and with Drury, I'm thinking he got those goals but needed the rest of the team to keep him in it because he wasn't producing at most any other time. He's a support guy. He's been average over two seasons.

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Old
01-04-2009, 06:16 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by _AC_ View Post

and LOL.....Naslund...a HALL OF FAMER!!??! lol...
I know he's not one.. but it's not a huge stretch... I mean just think if 03 went a little different and he won the art ross and richard...he would probably won the Hart then as well.

Oh well, what could have been.

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Old
01-04-2009, 06:46 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BrianLeetch2 View Post
Looking over some stats and with pretty much the rest of the league catching up to us in games played we are 3rd overall in the league in shots on goal(4th in the league in shots per game 32.2).....Obviously i cant say how many were quality shots as opposed to perimeter ones but i do agree Renney is to blame for a little (def for sitting prucha for as long as he did) and maybe even his lack of motivation during games but his system cant be all bad when your fourth in the league in shots per game its plain and simple we have no quality goal scorers. The problem mostly fall on the players for our inabilty to score and we had plenty of chances the caps game but didnt convert.....also Prucha rules
Great point. First of all, we don't play a completely wide open style, so in general we won't score as many goals as other teams. Considering that and the fact that over the last 3 years we've gotten very little offensive from our bottom 6 forwards and defenseman, finishing 14th and 18th in goals was pretty good.

As for this season, the fact that we're 4th in shots on goal is the exact reason I can't blame the coaches system for a lack of scoring. The system can create shots on goal, or prevent them, but it's the players who score on those shots.

So if we're getting a lot of shots, but not scoring any goals, I'd put the blame on the players rather than the system. It's possible to say the system is actually working great offensively because we're getting so many shots.

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Old
01-04-2009, 06:57 PM
  #33
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Come on Inferno, the talent on this team blows.

All you Renney bashers fail to realize this.

Lets fire him and bring in Laviolette or whoever you want that plays offensive style hockey.

Then get back to me and let me know how much more fun it is losing 5-1 instead of 2-1.

Because with our defense that would be horrendous to watch.


And with the finishers (or lack thereof) on this team, we damn sure won't be scoring more than we do now.


You're better than a thread like this Inferno. Now respond to all the previous posts.

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Old
01-04-2009, 07:02 PM
  #34
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His contract will be tough to move. Hopefully he starts to play with some emotion and effort to atleast earn some more of that contract.

On the other hand, I don't see the Gomez and/or Rozi contracts as being hard to move. But I don't see those being moved. Especially Rozi as he is starting to play like his old-self again (which is a good thing).

Isn't Gomez making 7.3m/year? And for like 3-4 more seasons or something like that? I'd say thats tough to move. Hes never been worth that much even in his bests years.

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01-04-2009, 07:10 PM
  #35
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Still think Ryder would have been a good fit with Gomez.

Gomez could have dumped the puck off to Ryder on the rush, go to the net, and let Ryder use that wrist shot of his.

Always liked Ryder.

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01-04-2009, 08:12 PM
  #36
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can anyone remember when the Rangers power play was actually good? I've only been a fan since 92, but I can't think of any yea where the power play was great once Zubov left, maybe after Gretzky.

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01-04-2009, 08:14 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
3 years ago, Jagr goes bonkers, Prucha explodes out of nowhere, we still only finish at 14th (3.05G/G) in the NHL in offense. Clearly we dont have the players...
so when Jagr and Prucha succeed, it's in spite of Renney, and when they fail it's because of Renney? ok....

in 05-06 Jagr scored more points then he did in any year since 1999, and increased his scoring from the previous year by 66%. Prucha scored a lot more than he's capable of, frankly. but I guess none of the credit goes to Renney there.

clearly Jagr's decline was due to Renney's declining coaching skills, and not due to the fact he was 35 and getting older. ditto Shanahan.

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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
so 2 years ago we had more or less the same team, added Shanahan, and our offense dropped from 14th in the NHL to 18th in the NHL (2.84G/G). Damn! I guess we still have too many round holes and square pegs! How about we have more or less the same team, subtract Nylander and add Chris Drury (a 37 goal scorer the year before) and Scott Gomez (a steady 60-75 point getter) and im sure that will bring in more offense right?
if you expected Drury to be a consistent 37 goal scorer, you were badly misguided to begin with. in fact, the only 2 times he's surpassed his 25 goal total of last season during his 9 year career were when he was had that incredibly strong offensive supporting cast in Buffalo.

and please, make up your mind. do the players suck, or is Renney not getting enough out of them? half your posts are complaining about how Gomez and Drury are 2nd/3rd liners and the other half are about how Renney isn't getting enough out of this capable cast. the two ideas can't co-exist.

and I don't think Renney has as much say in player personnel as you think. if you heard Renney's offseason wishes, they were not fulfilled in the slightest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Is it possible...just possible, that we DO have the horses to be score goals?

Is it possible, just possible, that this team as constructed should be a viable contender for the cup?
that would be great if making this team elite was just a new coach away.

if you look at this roster, and that's what you see, I envy your optimism.

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Old
01-04-2009, 08:33 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Its just amazing though isnt it? Its always the players fault that this team can not score goals.
3 years ago, Jagr goes bonkers, Prucha explodes out of nowhere, we still only finish at 14th (3.05G/G) in the NHL in offense. Clearly we dont have the players...

We add a 40 goal scorer from the previous year in Shanahan to help fix the problem.

so 2 years ago we had more or less the same team, added Shanahan, and our offense dropped from 14th in the NHL to 18th in the NHL (2.84G/G). Damn! I guess we still have too many round holes and square pegs! How about we have more or less the same team, subtract Nylander and add Chris Drury (a 37 goal scorer the year before) and Scott Gomez (a steady 60-75 point getter) and im sure that will bring in more offense right?

We drop from 18th in the NHL in offense to 25th (2.5 G/G).

Ok, it must all be Jagr and the Czech connections fault, you know because we have all these square pegs and round holes, so lets dismantle that team, get rid of Jagr, Shanahan, Straka, Avery, etc, and try a more or less completely different group of players. Lets put together a team that Tom Renney has more or less either drafted, or has been here since before they arrived (IE, he must have had some hand in picking what players he wants, but will have to deal with whatever players are there before he gets here)

So this year we go from 25th in the NHL to 26th in the NHL (2.5 G/G)

Is it possible...just possible, that we DO have the horses to be score goals?

Is it possible, just possible, that this team as constructed should be a viable contender for the cup?

I mean, clearly adding more talented players, or adding players that Tom Renney has a direct impact in signing doesnt help our cause offensively, so maybe, just maybe, there is another reason why this team can't score goals.

I dunno, you tell me.

We don't have goal scorers. We have playmakers. That's it. Other than that. Nothing... Season over.

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01-04-2009, 08:47 PM
  #39
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gotta say.......................

Ummm guys................. i know that that we havn't been that great but just one reminder to you guys........................SEASONS NOT OVER YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Listen, Redden hasn't been that good and yeah i was hoping for better, Gomez and Drury have not been that good YET, Kalinin, well i can't really defend him the way he has been playing..... but instead of playing the blame game, remember something that Tom Renney knows how to get to th playoffs, and he's worked with below averge defenses and has still been able to win. The two centers, i know have not produced but stop looking at the numbers for one second. Without those two players, we have Dubinsky and Korpikoski as our two centers, I love the youth but they have both won and are they struggling, yeah but they do find a way to win. Redden................, he's been in a offensive minded system for 11 years, he needs more transition then th 40 games we have given him, and that is how we drive players out of new york, time is of the essence, but time needs to be given.

WE do have enough scoring. time is what these players need. they are not o the same line every night, is that Renneys fault, maybe, but if he was a bad coach he wouldn;t be doing anything at all. Renney is a good coach but give the guy some time. He took us from a laughingstock to a CONSISTENT PLAYOFF TEAM. Let him wok his magic for this season before we can get on him.

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Old
01-09-2009, 11:31 PM
  #40
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Go get Keith Tkachuk right now.

RIGHT NOW

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01-09-2009, 11:50 PM
  #41
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Tis true

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01-10-2009, 01:26 AM
  #42
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The problem isn't goal scorers, the problem is how the team plays.

There are alot of players on this team that can score, they just need some quality chances.

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01-10-2009, 01:40 AM
  #43
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The problem isn't goal scorers, the problem is how the team plays.

There are alot of players on this team that can score, they just need some quality chances.
The reason they aren't getting quality chances is because they aren't very good. This is one of the least talented teams in the league. No skill outside of 2-3 guys.

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01-10-2009, 03:10 AM
  #44
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Go get Keith Tkachuk right now.

RIGHT NOW

+1

He would add balance & give Gomez the power forward that he needs to succeed.

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Old
01-10-2009, 03:28 AM
  #45
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+1

He would add balance & give Gomez the power forward that he needs to succeed.
Does anyone here really think Tkachuk is going to turn this team into a contender? He's not worth giving up any draft picks for. He won't fix our problems by himself.

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Old
01-10-2009, 09:29 AM
  #46
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I would hazard to guess that we have the smallest team in the east--maybe even the smallest team in the league. If not we're close. We have no elite forwards. Most other teams have at least someone or two approaching that status. We are maxed out on the cap and overpaying several players who don't deserve what they're getting. Will we make the playoffs? Maybe. Are we a contender? No. At least not as currently constructed--and as long as we're stuck with all of the Drury, Gomez, Redden and Roszival contracts we're not going to have the cap space to improve our team. If the cap goes down we're going to be even more screwed as it's going to make it tougher to sign our best younger players--Staal, Zherdev, Dubinsky. IMO we'd be almost better off dumping the teams vets and starting from scratch if there was a way we could manage that. Since the cap--the more bad signings a team makes the less breathing space that team has.
The saddest part is, Slats already did that.

And this is the result.

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Old
01-10-2009, 09:39 AM
  #47
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I keep an eye on the rangers, and I definitely don't think your lack of scoring has anything to do with lack of skill.

To me, it is lack of work and a low competitive level. Your guys simply don't outwork the other team down low, in the slot, and they definitely don't outwork the goalie. I saw the Rangers play with passion once (no, I haven't watched every game, but I see most games) and that was vs. the SJ sharks in SJ where they lost 3-2. That was the only time where it looked like the Rangers cared to try to win.

You can have all the skill in the world, and if you play vs. a team that can't defend well, you will make the pretty tic-tac-toe plays now and then, but as soon as that gets stopped the 'skilled' team comes up empty.

The old saying: 'hard work beats talent if talent doesn't work hard' has never been more applicable that to this team, imo. I think Renney's system is fine per se, but I just don't know if he can get that extra gear that they all have, out of them. To me, he doesn't get as much out of his players as he should/could.

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01-10-2009, 11:47 AM
  #48
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defensive teams MAY win games, but **** they are boring. This is New York City, the top new york team should be flashy and score a **** load of goals because everyone could be watching. When you have this current team is a freaking bore

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01-10-2009, 12:16 PM
  #49
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defensive teams MAY win games, but **** they are boring. This is New York City, the top new york team should be flashy and score a **** load of goals because everyone could be watching. When you have this current team is a freaking bore
Really? A game that is 5-1 is exciting? Can be at times I guess, just as a well played, PASSIONATE, defensively responsible game can be exciting as heck.

The common denominator is the level of competitiveness and passion that a team plays with. Most of the times that I have watched the rangers play, this has been largely absent.

Renney gets work out of his workers, but can't seem to get the same out of his skill guys.

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01-10-2009, 12:39 PM
  #50
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Really? A game that is 5-1 is exciting? Can be at times I guess, just as a well played, PASSIONATE, defensively responsible game can be exciting as heck.
Bingo. Last night's game was very exciting, I thought.

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