HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Official Vincent Lecavalier Thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-11-2009, 11:09 PM
  #126
Habsfan18
Registered User
 
Habsfan18's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,416
vCash: 500
if Gainey trades AK46 I go crazy on something, probably a wall.

As for the Lecavalier rumors..I highly doubt anything will happen..

Habsfan18 is offline  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:12 PM
  #127
Schooner Guy
Registered User
 
Schooner Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,661
vCash: 500
There's no way we give up all those assets to take up that albatross of a contract given economic uncertainty, cap uncertainty, and falling Cdn dollar. It's just not Gainey-like. Also, that $7.7m cap hit won't help us out in addressing our biggest need, an offensive D-man.

Dreger has opened up Pandora's Box and many here have been duped.

Schooner Guy is offline  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:15 PM
  #128
Nobak
Registered User
 
Nobak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by the finnish flash View Post
For what it's worth, in my EHM season both Lecavalier and Ovechkin were traded to Edmonton in 2009.
And in mine Jason Blake becomes GM of the Habs sometime in the 2020s.

Nobak is offline  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:16 PM
  #129
NewHabsEra*
 
NewHabsEra*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,695
vCash: 500
If something has to be done regarding Vinny, it will be next summer, not during the current season.

NewHabsEra* is offline  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:18 PM
  #130
googlymoogly
Registered User
 
googlymoogly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,466
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Guy View Post
There's no way we give up all those assets to take up that albatross of a contract given economic uncertainty, cap uncertainty, and falling Cdn dollar. It's just not Gainey-like. Also, that $7.7m cap hit won't help us out in addressing our biggest need, an offensive D-man.

Dreger has opened up Pandora's Box and many here have been duped.
I feel the same way. I don't want a new Houle era where multi players are traded away for one overpriced player. The future of the NHL with cap salaries is to keep drafting well. Detroit wins more often through their drafting abilities and getting some impact players for cup runs. We need a D man not a center.

googlymoogly is offline  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:19 PM
  #131
Nashy
The Honey Badger
 
Nashy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,290
vCash: 500
You either want to play in Montreal or you don't. Vinnie doesn't.

He can keep on enjoying the sunshine, the anonymity, and that fantastic TB organization.

Nashy is offline  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:24 PM
  #132
JHabs
HFB Partner
 
JHabs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,358
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to JHabs
Sounds like another Sundin esk Saga to me.

JHabs is offline  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:29 PM
  #133
Erik Estrada
@Denis.Coderre
 
Erik Estrada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,481
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by googlymoogly View Post
I feel the same way. I don't want a new Houle era where multi players are traded away for one overpriced player. The future of the NHL with cap salaries is to keep drafting well. Detroit wins more often through their drafting abilities and getting some impact players for cup runs. We need a D man not a center.
The last thing in the world I want is Gainey getting in a bidding war with the likes of Ray Shero and Don Waddell to see who can tank their club's future the quickest. The Vinny info (whether true or false) was probably leaked to get more GMs involved.

Erik Estrada is offline  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:34 PM
  #134
Nobak
Registered User
 
Nobak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by yarfangor View Post
Sounds like another Sundin esk Saga to me.
It's going to be easier though, we'll only need 4 threads this time around.

Nobak is offline  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:43 PM
  #135
Donkeyz
Registered User
 
Donkeyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montréal
Posts: 151
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nashy View Post
You either want to play in Montreal or you don't. Vinnie doesn't.

He can keep on enjoying the sunshine, the anonymity, and that fantastic TB organization.
And going to the arena in gougounes. AAAAAH.... high life....

Donkeyz is offline  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:44 PM
  #136
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,235
vCash: 500
I'm sure Gainey will talk to Tampa but Vinny is their cornerstone, I think they are looking for a ridiculous offer to trade him. Not sure if the Habs could realistically accomodate it with all the UFA's they have. You can't go into the summer trading Higgins and Plenakec plus a 1st or prospect when you risk losing 2 or more of Lang, Koivu, Kovy, Tanguay plus Komisarek on defense. It would be interesting to know what it would take...I'm sure TB would start with Pacioretty and Subban, maybe even Price if they are audacious...

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:45 PM
  #137
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Cakes!
 
Marc the Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Longueuil
Country: Canada
Posts: 54,652
vCash: 567
I can't believe what I am reading here. Why are people so against the idea?

1. Depth. We have it coming out of our a$$es! Every day we get threads here with people wondering what will happen when the team is healthy since we have so many NHL capable bodies. And now some of you are worried about dealing some of that depth to get a legit star? There are only EIGHTEEN spots available in a lineup, people. If there's one team that can make a 4 for 1 type deal, it's this one.

2. We don't ''need'' a center, but we don't have a true star #1 center either. In a conference where all the good teams seemingly have young #1 centers on the rise, the Habs chances would be a LOT better with a true #1 center in his prime like Lecavalier.

3. Lecavalier has played the PP point in the past and has a rocket of a shot, so the offensive d-man need would be basically solved.

4. I understand the concerns over his contract, but Lecavalier is big, strong and a good skater. I don't think he'll just fall off a cliff by age 33 or something. His cap hit is fine for a star player. He has 9 points in his last 7 games, so perhaps he's rounding into the form after major shoulder surgery. The OTT/TB/PIT cap problem is only if you have 2-3-4 guys with cap hits of ~6-7 M+, that's when you get into cap hell because you can't surround those big salary guys with proper depth. That's not our situation.

5. Houle era redux? What? This would actually be the exact reverse of what Houle did to the Habs when he traded several elite players for a ''package'' of players/assets.

Marc the Habs Fan is online now  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:46 PM
  #138
Rscorpio
Epic Meal Time!
 
Rscorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Santiago, Chile
Country: Chile
Posts: 2,833
vCash: 500
The guy doesn't want to come here...




IMO if u dont want to play here, then u can go f&?$yourself.

Rscorpio is offline  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:51 PM
  #139
JAVO16
Registered User
 
JAVO16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Montréal
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
I can't believe what I am reading here. Why are people so against the idea?

1. Depth. We have it coming out of our a$$es! Every day we get threads here with people wondering what will happen when the team is healthy since we have so many NHL capable bodies. And now some of you are worried about dealing some of that depth to get a legit star? There are only EIGHTEEN spots available in a lineup, people. If there's one team that can make a 4 for 1 type deal, it's this one.

2. We don't ''need'' a center, but we don't have a true star #1 center either. In a conference where all the good teams seemingly have young #1 centers on the rise, the Habs chances would be a LOT better with a true #1 center in his prime like Lecavalier.

3. Lecavalier has played the PP point in the past and has a rocket of a shot, so the offensive d-man need would be basically solved.

4. I understand the concerns over his contract, but Lecavalier is big, strong and a good skater. I don't think he'll just fall off a cliff by age 33 or something. His cap hit is fine for a star player. He has 9 points in his last 7 games, so perhaps he's rounding into the form after major shoulder surgery. The OTT/TB/PIT cap problem is only if you have 2-3-4 guys with cap hits of ~6-7 M+, that's when you get into cap hell because you can't surround those big salary guys with proper depth. That's not our situation.

5. Houle era redux? What? This would actually be the exact reverse of what Houle did to the Habs when he traded several elite players for a ''package'' of players/assets.
You summed it up pretty well. However, let the fantasm continue

JAVO16 is offline  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:53 PM
  #140
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 31,235
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
I can't believe what I am reading here. Why are people so against the idea?

1. Depth. We have it coming out of our a$$es! Every day we get threads here with people wondering what will happen when the team is healthy since we have so many NHL capable bodies. And now some of you are worried about dealing some of that depth to get a legit star? There are only EIGHTEEN spots available in a lineup, people. If there's one team that can make a 4 for 1 type deal, it's this one.

2. We don't ''need'' a center, but we don't have a true star #1 center either. In a conference where all the good teams seemingly have young #1 centers on the rise, the Habs chances would be a LOT better with a true #1 center in his prime like Lecavalier.

3. Lecavalier has played the PP point in the past and has a rocket of a shot, so the offensive d-man need would be basically solved.

4. I understand the concerns over his contract, but Lecavalier is big, strong and a good skater. I don't think he'll just fall off a cliff by age 33 or something. His cap hit is fine for a star player. He has 9 points in his last 7 games, so perhaps he's rounding into the form after major shoulder surgery. The OTT/TB/PIT cap problem is only if you have 2-3-4 guys with cap hits of ~6-7 M+, that's when you get into cap hell because you can't surround those big salary guys with proper depth. That's not our situation.

5. Houle era redux? What? This would actually be the exact reverse of what Houle did to the Habs when he traded several elite players for a ''package'' of players/assets.
I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying...however, some of that depth probably will disapear on the UFA market next summer. As great as it would be to have a guy like Vinny, you still have to look at the price to be paid. If it includes more than one of Markov, Higgins, Pacioretty, A,Kostystyn, Price, it would be a tough deal to make.

As hard as Gainey went after Sundin and Hossa, I don't think he'd pass up a deal for Vinny if it was a Thornton type deal.

Monctonscout is offline  
Old
01-11-2009, 11:53 PM
  #141
SpreeEndaz
Registered User
 
SpreeEndaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Around MTL
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,545
vCash: 500
This rumor has been going around for half a decade, I guess some people never learn.

SpreeEndaz is offline  
Old
01-12-2009, 12:04 AM
  #142
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Estrada View Post
Per Dregger:

4 NHLers (1-Higgins, 2-Pleckanec, 3-Dandenault?*, 4-Laraque?*)
+ P.K. Subban
+ Picks

(*=probably more...)

OneSharpMarble is offline  
Old
01-12-2009, 12:15 AM
  #143
number 11
Registered User
 
number 11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,910
vCash: 500
i say you do what you can to get him here. people are just bitter that he hasn't come here despite all the rumours. you'd be stupid not to take him for plek higgins subban and some picks

number 11 is offline  
Old
01-12-2009, 12:23 AM
  #144
Erik Estrada
@Denis.Coderre
 
Erik Estrada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,481
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
I can't believe what I am reading here. Why are people so against the idea?

1. Depth. We have it coming out of our a$$es! Every day we get threads here with people wondering what will happen when the team is healthy since we have so many NHL capable bodies. And now some of you are worried about dealing some of that depth to get a legit star? There are only EIGHTEEN spots available in a lineup, people. If there's one team that can make a 4 for 1 type deal, it's this one.

2. We don't ''need'' a center, but we don't have a true star #1 center either. In a conference where all the good teams seemingly have young #1 centers on the rise, the Habs chances would be a LOT better with a true #1 center in his prime like Lecavalier.

3. Lecavalier has played the PP point in the past and has a rocket of a shot, so the offensive d-man need would be basically solved.

4. I understand the concerns over his contract, but Lecavalier is big, strong and a good skater. I don't think he'll just fall off a cliff by age 33 or something. His cap hit is fine for a star player. He has 9 points in his last 7 games, so perhaps he's rounding into the form after major shoulder surgery. The OTT/TB/PIT cap problem is only if you have 2-3-4 guys with cap hits of ~6-7 M+, that's when you get into cap hell because you can't surround those big salary guys with proper depth. That's not our situation.

5. Houle era redux? What? This would actually be the exact reverse of what Houle did to the Habs when he traded several elite players for a ''package'' of players/assets.
1. I agree completely. My concern: if I understand Dregger correctly he was suggesting a 7+ for 1 deal (4 roster players + Subban + 2 or more picks). Maybe there's an auction to follow. There's such thing as too much.

2. I agree

3. I agree

4. I agree but with Markov, Komisarek, Lecavalier etc... hypothetically on our roster, our cap situation will get much trickier. It doesn't make the deal a non starter. It's just important to see how many underpriced or future underpriced assets in our system that go the other way in the deal.

5. You're right that there was a bit of both in the Houle era (multiplayers going to the Habs and the other way around). I'll settle by defining one of the problems in that period as making a big splash on the trade market that set us back.


Last edited by Erik Estrada: 01-12-2009 at 12:31 AM.
Erik Estrada is offline  
Old
01-12-2009, 12:28 AM
  #145
Dark4ng3l
Registered User
 
Dark4ng3l's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,054
vCash: 500
Even if we could get him it would not be worth it. Tampa would want massive assets. In the end though we would be suckers trading for him because they know he has more value to us than just his hockey value because he is french.

Plus if they do trade him then they would have been able to sign both him and Boyle to trade them instead of losing them as UFAs. That looks pretty video game ish to me. If they do trade him then you know the owners are managing the team theselves like a bunch of idiots.

Dark4ng3l is offline  
Old
01-12-2009, 12:30 AM
  #146
RE-HABS
Registered User
 
RE-HABS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,885
vCash: 500
Higgins 1.9 million (raise next year 3 million per) RFA
Plekanec 1.8 million (see above) RFA
Laroque 1.5 million
Bouillon 1.875 million UFA or Dandenault (injured - not tradable) 1.75 million UFA

7.075 million or 6.95 million going to Tampa for Vinnie

Lecavalier 7.167 million

The money makes sense. The return in top 6 forwards in Plekanec and Higgins (RFA's) and younger, Laroque is toughness and a headache the Habs say to take, Bouillon or Dandy are players off the books next year.

For the same salary of Vinnie the Bolts get the parts of a top two line, and an enforcer.

Plus such a trade would see St.Louis lift his no trade and more coming to Tampa to build around Stamkos and the additions from Montreal and the "other" team from St.Louis trade.

You would see a high prospect in McDonagh or Subban going with probably another like Maxwell and a pick, but not a 1st rounder...not this year if one is involved.

To me a deal could be made. Line up would still look good;

MaxPac - Vinnie - Kovy
AK47 - Lang - SK74
D'ago - Koivu - Tanger
Greek - Lappy - Chipper/Lats

Komy-Markov
Hammer-Gorges
Brisebois-Weber/O'Byrne

Price
Halak

Money will go to Kommy first in the summer and then it is a decision on who to keep in Koivu/Lang/Tanguay/Kovalev in UFA.

RE-HABS is offline  
Old
01-12-2009, 12:31 AM
  #147
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Didn't the league take the reigns of TB from the owners, who couldn't afford the financial losses from the team anymore?

Anyway, if it's the case, I think Vinny will be traded before July 1st, for added depth on the team, along with young players who won't cost much for at least 3-5 years. And I wouldn't be surprised to see TB *winning* the Tavares lottery like Pittsburg did with Crosby.

As for Montreal trying to get him, I wouldn't be surprised. It isn't that much of a pipedream IMO. The Habs will surely try to do so, as our veterans are on their way out, and after Koivu and Lang are gone, we only have Pleks who is worthy (for now) of a spot on the top two lines. Maxwell will get there, but will he be ready for when Koivu is gone? Whether it is Vinny or not, I see the Habs trying to make a big push to get an elite center this summer, and even then BG will have the luxury of going for a good fair deal as he'll still be able to afford another season to develop the boatload of young wingers and defensemen, as he can re-sign Koivu for 2-3 season and Lang for another or two. As for who would have to go to TB, remember that this team will be managed by the league, and that the league will want the best product to sell to a new ownership. In this time of financial crises, they would probably rely on young talent that doesn't cost much. For the immediate future, they would need a centerman to replace Lecavalier, which is where the logic of sending Pleks comes in. Yet Pleks will get around 3-4 mil after next summer. Adding guys like Higgins and then some depth would bring TB close to what Vinny is getting and they wouldn't save much money on the contracts with such a trade. So to me, its either AKost or Pleks or Higgins, and I see TB (the league) leaning much more towards a player like Pleks, who is a center, and who has been the most proven talent of the three up to this point and would add some much needed solid two way play to that team. Now for the rest, Tampa would probably be asking for youth depth, such as our young defensemen, and some wingers. What would BG be willing to sacrifice among our cheap (cap wise) youngsters? This all depends on BG and what TB/the league would want. But if its Pleks, you can bet TB will be asking for the likes of Latendresse, MaxPac, Daggs, Skost among others. But we all know BG, and I'm sure he would play his cards right, and not trade away the most important of our prospects like McD and MaxPac.

I could see one of Subban or Webber go, as they will be battling for a spot on the team and we can't afford to keep them both in the very near future as they are both small RH dmen. Personnaly I'd keep Subban and TB would probably agree to Webber as he's the closest to the NHL right now.

What Dregger suggested isn't so bad for TB, but the salary would probably be too much. We would be quite able to afford Vinny on our own salary cap, without tying ourselves that much for the future as his cap hit takes about what Higgins and Pleks will be doing together next season, With all the youth we have on the wings, I don't see this move stiffling us for the cap even with Price and Skost coming up for new salaries next season.

I'd offer TB a package of Pleks, Lats, Webber, a choice between OByrne, Carle and one of the russians in the KHL and the next two seasons's first picks, either 09 and 10, or 10 and 11 (all depending on whether the trade happens before or after the draft). If TB doesn't want that, or can't come up with a counter offer at a reasonable level close to this one, I would just move on as Vinny will probably not be the only elite centerman available on the trading block in the next two seasons with the financial troubles some teams will have.

As for the financial situation of the Habs cap wise if we do indeed trade for Lecavalier, I crunched some numbers and the team wouldn't be in a bad situation, that's the whole beauty of having so many veteran UFAs and so much youth on the wings and D. We could have him and be at around 52-53 mil with two of Kovy, Koivu Lang or Tanguay on the team, and Komi on the team.

Ozymandias is offline  
Old
01-12-2009, 12:37 AM
  #148
gnr25
Registered User
 
gnr25's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 681
vCash: 500
Keep in mind that Higgins and Plekanec are slated to become UFAs on July 1, 2010. Oh and we could have Subban until July 1, 2016.

gnr25 is offline  
Old
01-12-2009, 12:41 AM
  #149
Ozymandias
#firetherrien
 
Ozymandias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hockey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,438
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnr25 View Post
Keep in mind that Higgins and Plekanec are slated to become UFAs on July 1, 2010. Oh and we could have Subban until July 1, 2016.
I don't see your point as for now they are RFAs and with a hypothetical signing of 4-5 seasons, they wouldn't become UFAs until 2013-2014.

Ozymandias is offline  
Old
01-12-2009, 12:46 AM
  #150
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
I can't believe what I am reading here. Why are people so against the idea?

1. Depth. We have it coming out of our a$$es! Every day we get threads here with people wondering what will happen when the team is healthy since we have so many NHL capable bodies. And now some of you are worried about dealing some of that depth to get a legit star? There are only EIGHTEEN spots available in a lineup, people. If there's one team that can make a 4 for 1 type deal, it's this one.

2. We don't ''need'' a center, but we don't have a true star #1 center either. In a conference where all the good teams seemingly have young #1 centers on the rise, the Habs chances would be a LOT better with a true #1 center in his prime like Lecavalier.

3. Lecavalier has played the PP point in the past and has a rocket of a shot, so the offensive d-man need would be basically solved.

4. I understand the concerns over his contract, but Lecavalier is big, strong and a good skater. I don't think he'll just fall off a cliff by age 33 or something. His cap hit is fine for a star player. He has 9 points in his last 7 games, so perhaps he's rounding into the form after major shoulder surgery. The OTT/TB/PIT cap problem is only if you have 2-3-4 guys with cap hits of ~6-7 M+, that's when you get into cap hell because you can't surround those big salary guys with proper depth. That's not our situation.

5. Houle era redux? What? This would actually be the exact reverse of what Houle did to the Habs when he traded several elite players for a ''package'' of players/assets.
6. He had two chances to sign here and he chose to sign in Tampa Bay. He doesn't want to be here.

Habsterix* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:24 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.