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The Official Vincent Lecavalier Thread

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Old
01-11-2009, 11:47 PM
  #151
gnr25
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I mean that if they were used in a deal for Lecavalier, they might only be in Tampa for 1 season. You'd think that Tampa would want players for longer than that. If Higgins or Plekanec didn't like it in Tampa, they could leave and the Lightning would be left with only Subban or something like that. Otherwise this would be a Thornton type deal, with 1 superstar going for 3 weaker parts who wander off over time.

Obviously, if the Habs are pleased with Higgins and Plekanec (especially come playoff time), then they will want to sign them to 4-5 year contracts.

On a note about re-signing Higgins and Plekanec, if they haven't been re-signed by June 15th, we can always take them to arbitration if we wish. Higgins would probably get 2.8 mil, and Plekanec would get 3.5-4 depending on his finish to the season.

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01-11-2009, 11:57 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by gnr25 View Post
I mean that if they were used in a deal for Lecavalier, they might only be in Tampa for 1 season. You'd think that Tampa would want players for longer than that. If Higgins or Plekanec didn't like it in Tampa, they could leave and the Lightning would be left with only Subban or something like that. Otherwise this would be a Thornton type deal, with 1 superstar going for 3 weaker parts who wander off over time.

Obviously, if the Habs are pleased with Higgins and Plekanec (especially come playoff time), then they will want to sign them to 4-5 year contracts.

On a note about re-signing Higgins and Plekanec, if they haven't been re-signed by June 15th, we can always take them to arbitration if we wish. Higgins would probably get 2.8 mil, and Plekanec would get 3.5-4 depending on his finish to the season.
Well, for starters, with the Habs, I don't think they would have to go to arbitration. I know you were just pointing it out, but I'm just replying that I would be very surprised. If they remain with the Habs, I expect BG will sign them both for 3 seasons or more.

Now for the rest, that's the reason why I think TB would only want one of Higgins or Pleks, and settle for youth and draft picks. The deal doesn't necessarily need to be of the same type as the Thornton deal either. We give them a good piece with let's say Pleks, we give them some youth who will be RFAs for the next few years, and some picks. If they don't want that, too bad, I wouldn't overpay in the situation they are in.

As for Subban, I would offer Webber instead.

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Old
01-12-2009, 12:03 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
6. He had two chances to sign here and he chose to sign in Tampa Bay. He doesn't want to be here.
What 2 times is everyone talking about?

He's never hit the market.

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01-12-2009, 12:08 AM
  #154
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What 2 times is everyone talking about?

He's never hit the market.
Exactly. Back in 2004-05, he was a RFA and had he signed a one year deal, he could have become a UFA the following summer. He used Montreal in the media stating that he'd like to play here, bla-bla-bla, raising his own value and he then signed a long term deal with the Lightning.

After that contract, seeing that he could become a UFA this coming summer, he re-signed the contract he now has.

Had he wanted to play in Montreal, he would have signed a one year deal the first time. And had he wanted to play in Montreal, he would not have signed this last contract, would have hit the UFA market this summer and signed with us.

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01-12-2009, 12:09 AM
  #155
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I believe people are talking about how in August 2005 he signed a 4-year contract instead of signing a 1-year deal. He could have been a UFA in 2006 but chose to sign for longer. And most recently, he could have been a UFA in 2009 but then signed the big 11-year mega deal.

And Asterix gets it before me.

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01-12-2009, 12:14 AM
  #156
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That doesn't tell me that he doesn't want to be here

he was comfortable in Tampa so he re-signed.

Some people believe that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. If he were traded here, he wouldn't really have a choice would he?

But of course, this is all a moot point. If Tampa really does want to unload him, i'm sure they will talk with him about it and try and find the best for him for being loyal...although who knows with that Three Ring Circus in Tampa right now

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Old
01-12-2009, 12:18 AM
  #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Exactly. Back in 2004-05, he was a RFA and had he signed a one year deal, he could have become a UFA the following summer. He used Montreal in the media stating that he'd like to play here, bla-bla-bla, raising his own value and he then signed a long term deal with the Lightning.

After that contract, seeing that he could become a UFA this coming summer, he re-signed the contract he now has.

Had he wanted to play in Montreal, he would have signed a one year deal the first time. And had he wanted to play in Montreal, he would not have signed this last contract, would have hit the UFA market this summer and signed with us.
Your pet theory about using Montreal to raise his value doesn't work at all, if he truly wanted to raise his value, he would've went to the open market.

Do you actually realize that players are humans like you and me, and that when comes the time to sign a contract, they have a lot to think about, and a team with which you've already played for and won offers you a very decent contract, and you feel comfortable there, you kinda think a lot about what you're going to do, and taking that contract doesn't necessarily mean you wouldn't want to play anywhere else, it just means you agreed to what they offered you, to the line they pitched you. It's not a video game, the player is not just an entry in the roster, he's a human with many many things defining his decisions.

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Old
01-12-2009, 12:20 AM
  #158
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Also, if Lecavalier is traded before his NTC is to come into effect, then the team that gets him doesn't have to accept the NTC. They could then trade him whenever they want as well.

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01-12-2009, 12:25 AM
  #159
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ahh the Habs and Lecavalier.

almost too good to be true eh?

usually that means, no chance. maybe one day, when the contract is done he takes the ol' hometown discount.

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01-12-2009, 04:22 AM
  #160
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I dont buy the thinking of vinny DEFINITIVELY not wanting to play in Montreal. I think that's more speculation than anything else. Sure, he decided to sign long term in tampa, but its not a rare occurrence for a superstar to stay loyal to to his original organization.

All we know is that Tampa was his #1 choice at the time of the contract signing. That doesnt necessarily mean that Montreal was his #30 choice at that time... Montreal could have been his #2 choice for all we know.

Also, if Montreal was on the bottom of vinny's list in the past, it doesn't mean that things cant change over time. Montreal should be a more attractive situation right now than any other time in vinny's career. Maybe Vinny isn't as high on the organization and management in tampa right now. Preferences can change when situations change.

All I'm saying is that I wouldn't completely dismiss the possibility of vinny seeing Montreal as one of the more attractive places to play.

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01-12-2009, 04:38 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
ahh the LEAFS and TAVARES.

almost too good to be true eh?
Fixed

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Old
01-12-2009, 06:20 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
ahh the Habs and Lecavalier.

almost too good to be true eh?

usually that means, no chance. maybe one day, when the contract is done he takes the ol' hometown discount.

why exactly do you always feel the need to come on the Habs board and try to spark an arguement ? i know the leafs board is a little boring this year, but i am sure if you are looking for a good arguement, the leafs board has some customers.

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01-12-2009, 06:36 AM
  #163
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that is not true. just a bit of fun and it depends on the thread.

I mean come on. You are pining after Lecavalier. I don't care what the fourth period said, this is the last player they will move. What do you expect, me to come here and tell you he is a Hab for Chris Higgins, Matt D'Agostini and a 1st rounder?

Calm down a bit. The Leaf fans are always laughed at for wanting players they know we can't have just because they are from the GTA and rightly so.

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01-12-2009, 06:45 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by HellasLEAF View Post
that is not true. just a bit of fun and it depends on the thread.

I mean come on. You are pining after Lecavalier. I don't care what the fourth period said, this is the last player they will move. What do you expect, me to come here and tell you he is a Hab for Chris Higgins, Matt D'Agostini and a 1st rounder?

Calm down a bit. The Leaf fans are always laughed at for wanting players they know we can't have just because they are from the GTA and rightly so.
nope i expect you to do as i and stay on your proper board , this way there is no chance of this happening.

Even Dreger is getting into this one !!

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...-Vinny/1/18818

I just don't see how these guys don't think about the cap when they come up with this stuff ? Pleks and Higgins ++ would not even be close $$ wise .


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 01-12-2009 at 09:17 AM.
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01-12-2009, 07:18 AM
  #165
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Bob McKenzie, 5 minutes ago on 990 AM...

"I know they're trying to move Vinny Lecavalier. They aren't going to give him away, but they're trying to move him. I'm not saying he's definitely going to be traded but it's being talked about"

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01-12-2009, 07:19 AM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Your pet theory about using Montreal to raise his value doesn't work at all, if he truly wanted to raise his value, he would've went to the open market.

Do you actually realize that players are humans like you and me, and that when comes the time to sign a contract, they have a lot to think about, and a team with which you've already played for and won offers you a very decent contract, and you feel comfortable there, you kinda think a lot about what you're going to do, and taking that contract doesn't necessarily mean you wouldn't want to play anywhere else, it just means you agreed to what they offered you, to the line they pitched you. It's not a video game, the player is not just an entry in the roster, he's a human with many many things defining his decisions.
I've always believed that his agent used Pedneault in particular to make sure TB offered him what he felt he was worth.

I've also heard enough talking heads dance around saying that VL wants no part of Mtl. Granted this could change, I could've been listening to lunatics, but what I've heard has been undersated and said in very vague terms in a way that told me that they'd rather not go much further.

For him to come to Mtl, a good sales job would have to be done, but I have strong doubts, despite how much I'd love to see him play here.

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01-12-2009, 07:19 AM
  #167
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What I cannot believe is that some people here are still not happy with a team that is top 5in the league. Instead of tweaking what we have to bring a cup here some are all for whosale changes to bring Vinnie who is expensive and would not be the answer to put us over the top. HIs contract is way to prohibitive, especially when you look at our list of free agents this summer. We would be hurting this team by signing him.

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01-12-2009, 07:23 AM
  #168
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What I cannot believe is that some people here are still not happy with a team that is top 5in the league. Instead of tweaking what we have to bring a cup here some are all for whosale changes to bring Vinnie who is expensive and would not be the answer to put us over the top. HIs contract is way to prohibitive, especially when you look at our list of free agents this summer. We would be hurting this team by signing him.
Vinny only makes $2 mil more than Lang or Tanguay...I'd get rid of BOTH those guys to get him on this team, without hesitation.

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01-12-2009, 07:27 AM
  #169
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The cap hit on that new contract is only 7,727,273, which for a player of his caliber isn't that bad. He could instantly become our best player and would be the highest paid.

The 11 years is what scares me. That's a long time to be committed to a player who plays in such a physical sport.

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01-12-2009, 07:29 AM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Vinny only makes $2 mil more than Lang or Tanguay...I'd get rid of BOTH those guys to get him on this team, without hesitation.
Tanguay's cap hit is $5.250$ and Lang is $4M. I believe, as someone mentioned here, Vinnie is well over $7M cap his so ya he makes more then $2M more and his cap hit is more then $2M more. Also have to look long term with the likes of Price etc needing long term deals in teh future, not forgetting Komi this summer.

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01-12-2009, 07:34 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by HotHabsFan View Post
Even Dreger is getting into this one !!

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...-Vinny/1/18818

I just don't see how these guys don't think about the cap when they come up with this stuff ? Pleks and Higgins ++ would not even be close $$ wise .
Lets give a long hard look to the idea from the cap perspective.

First of all, Habs have currently plenty of cap space for next season. Getting Vinny and his 7,7 million cap hit could mean not resigning Kovalev or Tanguay (and using cheaper player on their place), but even with Vinny Habs are probably looking for 3-5 players with cap hit over 5 million (Vinny 7,7; Markov 5,75; Hamrlik 5,5 and maybe Tangauy/Kovalev 5,5 and Komisarek 5,0). Definetly not overly expensive group of players.

So the issue would be rest of the season. Vinny's current cap hit is 6,875. Assuming that trade would happen at half point mark (which is actually already passed, but bear with me, it makes things easier), Habs would have to be able to take 3,437 million cap hit in oder to bring Vinny in.

Assuming Higgins and Plekanec are among players to be traded, they would free 0,85 million and 0,8 million respectively. That would bring Habs to 1,65 million.

Let's add Dandenault and Bouillon (replace by Weber). That should give in total approximately 1,362 million in cap space (gain remaining half of Dandenault's and Bouillon's cap hit, lose remaining half of Weber's cap hit), giving Habs roughly 3,0 million in cap space.

Unfortunately, since Habs has have players on LITR during the season so far they only have 234k in cap space according to Irish Blues. I suspect that team could add few players retroactively to LITR if that would be helpful (namely Laraque and Tanguay), but I am not totally sure could Habs use Vinny to replace players in LITR for the time before he joins the team. Depending on that, it could actually be possible (if Dandenault and Bouillon could be traded at the time of trading for Vinny).

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01-12-2009, 07:44 AM
  #172
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Dont the Habs have some space available for this year? That space plus Higgins salary wouldnt be enough for this year? Bob McKenzie is the holy prophet of hockey. Why worry about next year? Go for the cup this year. Higgins, Pleks, Fisher, Dandy or Higgins, Mcdonaugh, D'ago should be enough. How much were garnered for Thorton, Drury, Savard etc? Vinnie isnt GretzkyThere is very often low returns with big salaries.
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Lets give a long hard look to the idea from the cap perspective.

First of all, Habs have currently plenty of cap space for next season. Getting Vinny and his 7,7 million cap hit could mean not resigning Kovalev or Tanguay (and using cheaper player on their place), but even with Vinny Habs are probably looking for 3-5 players with cap hit over 5 million (Vinny 7,7; Markov 5,75; Hamrlik 5,5 and maybe Tangauy/Kovalev 5,5 and Komisarek 5,0). Definetly not overly expensive group of players.

So the issue would be rest of the season. Vinny's current cap hit is 6,875. Assuming that trade would happen at half point mark (which is actually already passed, but bear with me, it makes things easier), Habs would have to be able to take 3,437 million cap hit in oder to bring Vinny in.

Assuming Higgins and Plekanec are among players to be traded, they would free 0,85 million and 0,8 million respectively. That would bring Habs to 1,65 million.

Let's add Dandenault and Bouillon (replace by Weber). That should give in total approximately 1,362 million in cap space (gain remaining half of Dandenault's and Bouillon's cap hit, lose remaining half of Weber's cap hit), giving Habs roughly 3,0 million in cap space.

Unfortunately, since Habs has have players on LITR during the season so far they only have 234k in cap space according to Irish Blues. I suspect that team could add few players retroactively to LITR if that would be helpful (namely Laraque and Tanguay), but I am not totally sure could Habs use Vinny to replace players in LITR for the time before he joins the team. Depending on that, it could actually be possible (if Dandenault and Bouillon could be traded at the time of trading for Vinny).

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01-12-2009, 07:48 AM
  #173
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Your pet theory about using Montreal to raise his value doesn't work at all, if he truly wanted to raise his value, he would've went to the open market.

Do you actually realize that players are humans like you and me, and that when comes the time to sign a contract, they have a lot to think about, and a team with which you've already played for and won offers you a very decent contract, and you feel comfortable there, you kinda think a lot about what you're going to do, and taking that contract doesn't necessarily mean you wouldn't want to play anywhere else, it just means you agreed to what they offered you, to the line they pitched you. It's not a video game, the player is not just an entry in the roster, he's a human with many many things defining his decisions.
+100
Thank you! People don't realize that! Since I worked abroad for 3 different companies, I had to deal with this several times.. My contracts ends, I fed up with it.. But then this new offer comes in.. what do you do ? So many things to consider especially you don't know what's waiting for you if you refuse this one...

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01-12-2009, 08:47 AM
  #174
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for those saying he wouln't play in Montreal :


For a day, Lecavalier almost a Canadien

He was set this summer to leave the Lightning to fulfill a childhood dream, until he had a true awakening.

By TOM JONES, Times Staff Writer
Published September 21, 2005



It nearly happened.

Hours before the Lightning's 6-1 loss against the Canadiens in a preseason game Tuesday night, Lecavalier admitted for at least a few hours this summer, he was set to leave the Lightning after this season so he could fulfill his dream of playing for his hometown Canadiens.

He had it all worked out: sign a one-year deal with the Lightning in order to become an unrestricted free agent and then go back home for, maybe, the rest of his career.

"For a day, I really thought about it - what would it be like?," Lecavalier said. "That night I slept and I woke up and I thought: you know what? I want to be in Tampa."

Imagine that.

"I like Montreal and it would be very special," he said, "but my heart is in Tampa.

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01-12-2009, 08:53 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
Bob McKenzie, 5 minutes ago on 990 AM...

"I know they're trying to move Vinny Lecavalier. They aren't going to give him away, but they're trying to move him. I'm not saying he's definitely going to be traded but it's being talked about"
Vinny must really love St.Petersburg, Florida, because management in Tampa has never really loved him back.

Vinny is a battered wife

It's okay Vinny, you can always go home.

*looks at contract*

On second thought, you can always... umm... goto Nashville?

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