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Holmgren's [surprising] thoughts on JVR

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Old
01-12-2009, 08:30 AM
  #1
BlackTuuk
 
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Holmgren's [surprising] thoughts on JVR

"Flyers GM Paul Holmgren hasn't been thrilled with the development of LW James vanRiemsdyk after getting a chance to see the 19-year-old at the world junior championship in Ottawa. A first-round pick (No. 2 overall) in 2007, vanRiemsdyk plays at the University of New Hampshire. Holmgren thinks it's time for a higher education. "(VanRiemsdyk) would have been better off if he came out last year," Holmgren told Comcast's Tim Panaccio."

http://www.ottawasun.com/Sports/Hock...84086-sun.html

I know the Sun is shiite*, but the statements come as somewhat of a shock to me. I mean, the kid has elevated his skills as far as the collegiate level goes. And, while JVR never needed the growth development in the same way that Turris did, JVR appears to have benefited from staying another year.

I note, though, I am not a GM, Scout, and totally trust Holmgren's judgment. I would hope a rift in the relationship is not coming, as JVR has already went on record stating that he would consult his family and support group regarding whether he should attend school next year: that is fair, but hardly expressing that I am likely leaving and going pro next year. I actually don't care if he elects to stay another year in college. I think Turris DEFINITELY could have used another year of development there. Some guys, especially big men, have been said to need longer to develop.

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01-12-2009, 08:32 AM
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This was already been discussed in the prospects thead.

I can see both their points of view and don't fault either for how they feel.

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01-12-2009, 08:34 AM
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Nothing here is a real secret.

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01-12-2009, 08:43 AM
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He'll be fine, I'm actually a little confused as to why Holmgren is saying this. It's not like JVR's absence has hurt us at all and his cap hit will be a very challenging thing for Holmgren to manage.

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01-12-2009, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Nothing here is a real secret.
Those statements essentially place more pressure on JVR, which I don't know is a good thing, really. Some of that can lead to poor handling of a prospect (see MacTavish's handling of Robbie Schremp--some statements justified, others undoubtedly damaging.).

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01-12-2009, 08:48 AM
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I viewed these quotes as kind of like a warning shot by Homer. I think he reluctantly supported his move to go back to school this year but is warning against him going back for a 3rd year.

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01-12-2009, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackTuuk View Post
Those statements essentially place more pressure on JVR, which I don't know is a good thing, really. Some of that can lead to poor handling of a prospect (see MacTavish's handling of Robbie Schremp--some statements justified, others undoubtedly damaging.).
If JVR can't handle the pressure of Homer's words on this matter, then he needs to grow up. He's our best prospect in the system, and professional athletes need to deal with pressure. Period. If he can't handle 'this' pressure, then he won't much success in Philadelphia...because THAT'S pressure.

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01-12-2009, 08:50 AM
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I just hope JVR and Homer get super pissy at each other and **** everything up.

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01-12-2009, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opus View Post
If JVR can't handle the pressure of Homer's words on this matter, then he needs to grow up. He's our best prospect in the system, and professional athletes need to deal with pressure. Period. If he can't handle 'this' pressure, then he won't much success in Philadelphia...because THAT'S pressure.
yup. He is going to make the big bucks right out of the gate. Needs to play better, and take this comment and use it.

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01-12-2009, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
yup. He is going to make the big bucks right out of the gate. Needs to play better, and take this comment and use it.
I don't know, not all players respond to "tough lovery (yup, I am making words up now!)." Kessel didn't, and it took a long time for the Bruins to just have confidence in the kid (although, I note, his situation is wildly different). JVR is not a bruising forward, rather, he models his game after Rick Nash's. He seems a like he'd be sensitive. Heh. Perhaps, though, this is why the approach might work. I dunno. Kid gloves is probably best until the kid is in the system. Kid glovery.


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01-12-2009, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banger View Post
I viewed these quotes as kind of like a warning shot by Homer. I think he reluctantly supported his move to go back to school this year but is warning against him going back for a 3rd year.
That's Holmgren's fault then. It's not like he didn't have options before him at the draft. He knew JVR was going to college, and knew JVR had no intentions at entertaining any other thought. That's his right as a college player.

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01-12-2009, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by opus View Post
He's our best prospect in the system, and professional athletes need to deal with pressure. Period. If he can't handle 'this' pressure, then he won't much success in Philadelphia...because THAT'S pressure.
+1


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Old
01-12-2009, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BlackTuuk View Post
I don't know, not all players respond to "tough lovery (yup, I am making words up now!)." Kessel didn't, and it took a long time for the Bruins to just have confidence in the kid (although, I note, his situation is wildly different). JVR is not a bruising forward, rather, he models his game after Rick Nash's. He seems a like he'd be sensitive. Heh. Perhaps, though, this is why the approach might work. I dunno. Kid gloves is probably best until the kid is in the system. Kid glovery.
There very few players in professional sports that I would treat with 'kid gloves'...JVR isn't one of them. This doesn't mean I don't think the kid has talent...but c'mon. A wonder these guys have the ego's they do. Isn't enough that they make millions of dollars for playing a game?

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01-12-2009, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by opus View Post
There very few players in professional sports that I would treat with 'kid gloves'...JVR isn't one of them. This doesn't mean I don't think the kid has talent...but c'mon. A wonder these guys have the ego's they do. Isn't enough that they make millions of dollars for playing a game?
I hear ya man, but he is a kid. You have to go a little easy on him before he develops the "wide receiver" mentality. You know, he hasn't started racing horses yet. Heh.

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01-12-2009, 09:59 AM
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I hear ya man, but he is a kid. You have to go a little easy on him before he develops the "wide receiver" mentality. You know, he hasn't started racing horses yet. Heh.
Fair enough, he is young...but so what.

So is, Luka Sbisa, Luke Schenn, Drew Doughty and Steve Mason (to name a few)...they seem to be dealing 'pressure' quite nicely if you ask me. I don't see Homers comments and thoughts as 'pressure'. He runs the Flyers and drafted JVR. He doesn't think hockey at the college level is what's best for both JVR and the Flyers, and I have no problems with it.

If he develops this said 'wide receiver' attitutude than I hope he doesn't stay a Flyer for long. I don't want any egotistical players on this team. JVR needs to understand where Homer is coming from, and I'm sure he does.

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01-12-2009, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by opus View Post
Fair enough, he is young...but so what.

So is, Luka Sbisa, Luke Schenn, Drew Doughty and Steve Mason (to name a few)...they seem to be dealing 'pressure' quite nicely if you ask me. I don't see Homers comments and thoughts as 'pressure'. He runs the Flyers and drafted JVR. He doesn't think hockey at the college level is what's best for both JVR and the Flyers, and I have no problems with it.

If he develops this said 'wide receiver' attitutude than I hope he doesn't stay a Flyer for long. I don't want any egotistical players on this team. JVR needs to understand where Homer is coming from, and I'm sure he does.
You're right, too. And, I definitely conceded that I am no GM and have faith in "Homie." But the ego is always there. I know glassmen and manual labors who make 40 grand a year and have a big ego. It isn't that JVR doesn't want to be a team player, it is that he wants to move up when he is fully comfortable and I think Homer should take pains to accept that fully, especially when the kid is pursuing an education. You can see how his family would desire that. Homer just comes off as being interested only in the team's investment, which is a little wrong-headed when an education is in play too, really. That's how I see it, at least.

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01-12-2009, 10:19 AM
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An inside source tells me that either JVR expects to go to the team next year, or I've even heard of him coming in APRIL of this year. Hopefully its one of these.

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01-12-2009, 10:21 AM
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a lot of my classmates here in ann arbor went to high school with JvR and typically say that he was really quiet and not egotistical. his hesitance has probably less to do with his ego and more to do with him being a teenager who is nervous about making a drastic leap.

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01-12-2009, 10:30 AM
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You're right, too. And, I definitely conceded that I am no GM and have faith in "Homie." But the ego is always there. I know glassmen and manual labors who make 40 grand a year and have a big ego. It isn't that JVR doesn't want to be a team player, it is that he wants to move up when he is fully comfortable and I think Homer should take pains to accept that fully, especially when the kid is pursuing an education. You can see how his family would desire that. Homer just comes off as being interested only in the team's investment, which is a little wrong-headed when an education is in play too, really. That's how I see it, at least.
Like I said earlier, I can see where both parties are coming from.

In regards to your comment about Homer, let's face it...he has once job and one job only. To ice the best team possible and win the Stanley Cup. Nothing more, nothing less. He obvious feels that JVR is an important piece to that puzzle and wants him progressing as such to make that leap. JVR getting better grades doesn't help the Flyers win the Cup...you know.

I don't fault the kids decisions one bit, but to say Homer is wrong-headed...IMO is wrong.

We'll agree to disagree on that part.

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01-12-2009, 11:02 AM
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If JVR doesn't come out of college at the end of this year, I see him being traded.

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01-12-2009, 11:12 AM
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From a hockey POV Holmgren is 100% right. Did you guys actually watch him play in the worlds??? He look great against the crappy team but was average AT BEST against the top teams. Hell, when we played Canada he was maybe, and I stress MAYBE the 10th best player on the ice. It was no different last year either and I think that's what Holmgren was talking about. I could see him NOT dominating in the 19 year old tourny when he was only 18 but you'd have expected him to get better and pretty much dominate then next year when he was one of the oldest players (and as expected one of the most skilled) out there.

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01-12-2009, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
If JVR doesn't come out of college at the end of this year, I see him being traded.
eugh, i'd hate to see us get screwed over like carolina got screwed with JMFJ.

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01-12-2009, 11:15 AM
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eugh, i'd hate to see us get screwed over like carolina got screwed with JMFJ.
Yeah, hopefully if that happened the return would look a lot better than Tim ****ing Gleason.

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01-12-2009, 11:27 AM
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I am definitely staying away from this thread, like opus said, we had 7 pages of debate on that subject.

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01-12-2009, 11:33 AM
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Like I said earlier, I can see where both parties are coming from.

In regards to your comment about Homer, let's face it...he has once job and one job only. To ice the best team possible and win the Stanley Cup. Nothing more, nothing less. He obvious feels that JVR is an important piece to that puzzle and wants him progressing as such to make that leap. JVR getting better grades doesn't help the Flyers win the Cup...you know.

I don't fault the kids decisions one bit, but to say Homer is wrong-headed...IMO is wrong.

We'll agree to disagree on that part.
We can agree to disagree, sure. I think a GM's job in endeavoring to put together the best team possible is balancing that desire with what is best for the prospect, too. I don't think it is simply, best team...you...skate with us immediately. I think it requires a balancing, really. The Hurricanes were impatient with Jack Johnson and I think that went sideways on them. Some will agree with me, and others with you. I am not being argumentive here, though (tone adjuster).

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