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Old
01-12-2009, 10:56 AM
  #1
tytech
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Carle vs Jones

We need to dump salrary and I believe Joens is on everyones list to go first.


If it were me, I'd trade/dump Carle and keep Jones. I don't understand all the man crushes for Carle on here. He gives up costly turnovers just as often as Jones and is just as offensively gifted as Jones is. They are very similar players.

Carle makes 800k a year more than Jones and is signed for two years longer. That is the main arguement. The point of wanting anyone gone is salary.

Jones is closer to being a 2.7 million dollar player than Carle is to being a 3.5 million dollar player, who is also signed for two (2) years more than Jones.

If we are dumping Salary, dump Carle.

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01-12-2009, 11:00 AM
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Spongolium*
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Jones is almost as offensivly gifted as carle? Oh boy, this should be good

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01-12-2009, 11:00 AM
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TheDrizzle81
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Isnt there a thread on this already?

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01-12-2009, 11:08 AM
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LEIFey
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carle's ceiling is much higher than jones. jones isn't going to get much better than where he is now. if carle can bring himself back to the level he was at 3 years ago, he'll be more than worth his 3.5 mil contract. he's also just plain better than jones at this point.

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01-12-2009, 11:18 AM
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TheDrizzle81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
carle's ceiling is much higher than jones. jones isn't going to get much better than where he is now. if carle can bring himself back to the level he was at 3 years ago, he'll be more than worth his 3.5 mil contract. he's also just plain better than jones at this point.
Carle and Coburn are still young (so is Jones but i feel he has peeked) , and they have tremendous upside. Coburn to me lately, when he was paired with timonen, has picked up his play. Carle, while he has had some bad turnovers, Jones has more a game. Against Washington I was about to wait for them to return and smack Jones in the head. He had a lot of turnovers in the 3rd and OT. I mean turnovers to guys like OVECHKIN. Carle may be a bit overpaid, but Jones is GROSSLY overpaid. Carle has move value(we traded a 1st round pick from 3 years ago to get him, Downie), enough that we cant take it back because we need to dump salary. Jones to me isnt worth a bag of air, so whatever we get back is fair.

Carle vs Jones is like 80's mike Tyson vs a 100 year old woman.

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01-12-2009, 11:23 AM
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tytech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Jones is almost as offensivly gifted as carle? Oh boy, this should be good
Uhhh, yeah. Look at the stats instead of basing your opinions on what others say on here.
Jones 180 gp - 62 points
Carle 187 gp - 74 points

Very similar.

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01-12-2009, 11:24 AM
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tytech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
Isnt there a thread on this already?
No, there isn't, but your comment helps.

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01-12-2009, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech View Post
Uhhh, yeah. Look at the stats instead of basing your opinions on what others say on here.
Jones 180 gp - 62 points
Carle 187 gp - 74 points

Very similar.
Wow. Those numbers I did not realize.

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01-12-2009, 11:32 AM
  #9
tytech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
carle's ceiling is much higher than jones. jones isn't going to get much better than where he is now. if carle can bring himself back to the level he was at 3 years ago, he'll be more than worth his 3.5 mil contract. he's also just plain better than jones at this point.
What are you basing this arguement on? I started the thread cause I knew what type of comments would be had and I was ready to defend.

Your points;
1)Carles celing is higher? How? Carle has faltered since having a good rookie season.
2)Jones isn't going to get much better. Statistically, Jones has gotten better every year!
3)If Carle can get back to where he was? Last year, Jones had a very similar season to what you hope Carle amounts to from three years ago. Statistically, Jones is closer to being where we need Carle to be.

Carles best season is 11 points more than Jones' best. Carle's was in 06-07 and Jones' was last year. If you look at last year alone, Jones had 31 points and Carle had 15. Is that 11 points more from two years ago worth 800,000 more than jones, plus 3.5 for two more years after?

No.


Last edited by tytech: 01-12-2009 at 11:40 AM.
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01-12-2009, 11:33 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech View Post
Uhhh, yeah. Look at the stats instead of basing your opinions on what others say on here.
Jones 180 gp - 62 points
Carle 187 gp - 74 points

Very similar.
Wow that is quite shocking to me.

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Old
01-12-2009, 11:39 AM
  #11
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I have not seen the slew of errors from either that so many here have seen. This year, Coburn has seemed to make the most mistakes but maybe that is because he is defending players who can take advantage of the less than stellar play.

I think there are about 15 or 20 defensemen in the league whose play cannot be nitpicked by the fan who wants to see flawless play on the back end. For everyone else, the weak wraparound and the failed clear and the intercepted pass and the bad icing and the missed check and the bad pinch are routine. Defensemen make mistakes. That's what they do.

Sometimes they even fall down!!

Coburn > Carle > Jones

In my opinion.

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01-12-2009, 11:41 AM
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IrishSniper87
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Carle > Jones
24 yo > 27 yo
74pts in 189 >62 pts in 180
Carle has higher ceiling > Jones is at his peak

No **** Jones has gotten better every year, he is almost 28!!! Carle is only 24, and he will prob get better every year for the next 4 years also, finishing with him being much better then Jones. I think he is better then Jones right this moment anyway, and the younger age and higher ceiling make him better in the long run also.

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01-12-2009, 11:47 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech View Post
What are you basing this arguement on? I started the thread cause I knew what type of comments would be had and I was ready to defend.

Your points;
1)Carles celing is higher? How? Carle has faltered since having a good rookie season.
2)Jones isn't going to get much better. Statistically, Jones has gotten better every year!
3)If Carle can get back to where he was? Last year, Jones had a very similar season to what you hope Carle amounts to from three years ago. Statistically, Jones is closer to being where we need Carle to be.

Carles best season is 11 points more than Jones' best. Carle's was in 06-07 and Jones' was last year. If you look at last year alone, Jones had 31 points and Carle had 15. Is that 11 points more from two years ago worth 800,000 more than jones, plus 3.5 for two more years after?

No.
well, ceiling is hard to analyze, so if you'd like, i can retract that. based on my admittedly limited observations, i've liked what i've seen from carle more than jones. carle seemed to have been in a similar position as jones in the past couple seasons since san jose really relied on him to be a huge part of their defense. that's tough on anyone, especially someone younger than 25. jones was in a similar place last year and was a defensive disaster.

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01-12-2009, 11:50 AM
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All you need to do is simply watch them. Jones has been brutal this season, and Carle has for the most part been a good player for us

You can argue that Jones is still getting into the swing of things if you want, but i don't buy it. He's got cement for brains

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01-12-2009, 11:50 AM
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i hate jones

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01-12-2009, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
carle's ceiling is much higher than jones. jones isn't going to get much better than where he is now. if carle can bring himself back to the level he was at 3 years ago, he'll be more than worth his 3.5 mil contract. he's also just plain better than jones at this point.
I for one, don't share the hatred for Jones that some around these parts do, but in fairness to the guy...he has gotten better.

From 2006/07 - 2007/08 he progressed quite nicely.

If anything, Carle has taken a step back. What evidence do you have to suggest his cieling is higher? Maybe he had one great season...and that output simply isn't reasonable.

Not saying it is, just being the devils advocate.

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01-12-2009, 11:52 AM
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tytech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JXC View Post
I have not seen the slew of errors from either that so many here have seen. This year, Coburn has seemed to make the most mistakes but maybe that is because he is defending players who can take advantage of the less than stellar play.

I think there are about 15 or 20 defensemen in the league whose play cannot be nitpicked by the fan who wants to see flawless play on the back end. For everyone else, the weak wraparound and the failed clear and the intercepted pass and the bad icing and the missed check and the bad pinch are routine. Defensemen make mistakes. That's what they do.

Sometimes they even fall down!!

Coburn > Carle > Jones

In my opinion.
The thread isn't actually about who's better. We need to dump salary and this is what the post is about. I hate Carles contract and he is eerily similar to Jones but Jones is much cheaper and shorter in length. Carle is not a 3.5 million dolar defenseman and we have him for three more years.

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01-12-2009, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech View Post
The thread isn't actually about who's better. We need to dump salary and this is what the post is about. I hate Carles contract and he is eerily similar to Jones but Jones is much cheaper and shorter in length. Carle is not a 3.5 million dolar defenseman and we have him for three more years.
Longer contract might actually be a good thing. Jones will no doubt be looking for a pay increase if he steps it up. You guys underestimate how much people will pay. Jeff Finger got $3.5

Carle is 24 man. He has time to step it up. A lot of quality d-man dont get better until late 20's. However, I don't see Jones ever being worth his deal.

Carle > Jones

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01-12-2009, 12:03 PM
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TheDrizzle81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chromemaro View Post
i hate jones
This post pretty much says it all. lol.

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01-12-2009, 12:04 PM
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BrindamoursNose
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Jones is the most un-important D-Man on the current roster (outside of Kukky).

I see a real purpose/role for all except Jones.

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01-12-2009, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tytech View Post

Jones is closer to being a 2.7 million dollar player than Carle is to being a 3.5 million dollar player, who is also signed for two (2) years more than Jones.

If we are dumping Salary, dump Carle.
Jones would be a "dump". Carle would be a "trade".

Jones isn't that great of an asset, Carle is our legit #3 guy that I think every team should have.

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01-12-2009, 12:07 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
jones was in a similar place last year and was a defensive disaster.
Jones was +8 last year, second only to Coburn at +17.

Timonen was even

Kukkonen was +3
Parent -4
Smith -4

Hmmmm who was tops in plus-minus during the playoffs? Guess we'll have to look that up...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/teams/ph...ostseason_2007

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01-12-2009, 12:11 PM
  #23
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I'd sooner cut off my own testicles than trade Carle instead of Jones...and I'm no flaming Carle supporter.

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01-12-2009, 12:12 PM
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TheDrizzle81
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Ill put it to you all this way. If the Flyers dump Carle before Jones, I will forever write this team off and stop following hockey, because apparently Homer would have drank the same kool-aid that Clarke drank. And I simply cannot put up with that crap again.

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01-12-2009, 12:13 PM
  #25
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If we get rid of Carle we'd have basically given away a first rd pick this year and Downie for nothing.

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