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Old
01-12-2009, 03:15 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by opus View Post
Did I read somewhere in this thread that somebody compared him (JVR) to Rick Nash?

...p'lease!




Not even close. Let's not go there.
I hope I wrote that he admires or models his game after Rick Nash, because he has stated that is his favorite player.

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01-12-2009, 03:25 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
That comparison has been out there since his draft year.
I hate player comparisons, I really do.

...but this coming from a huge Nash fan. I just don't see it.

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Originally Posted by BlackTuuk View Post
I hope I wrote that he admires or models his game after Rick Nash, because he has stated that is his favorite player.
Rick Nash is a beast!

If he's like Nash, I will be most impressed and will be the first one to post a pic of a crow.

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01-12-2009, 03:28 PM
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JVR is more of a playmaker to Nash's goal scorer though

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01-12-2009, 03:42 PM
  #54
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I know that hindsight is 20/20 and dwelling on this doesn't do anything but how nice would Patrick Kane look on the wing right now?

Flyers should have him since they had by far the worst record in the league yet got screwed by the lottery. I'm not saying that JVR will end up being a bust or anything, but right now Kane is a proven stud while JVR is still a relatively unknown quantity and its kinda depressing when you realize he could be playing wing with Richie or Carter right now.

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01-12-2009, 03:48 PM
  #55
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I'll take a Playmaking PWF. LETS GO JVR! He would ROCK with Carter.

Seriously, JVR is still 19, and not eligible for the AHL this year anyway.

Next year he is AHL elgible. Kid is 19, don't get your ******* in a twist.

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01-12-2009, 03:56 PM
  #56
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I know Bobby Ryan came up in this thread and even he spent a few years in the minors (mainly due to him not being ready/no space on the Ducks roster) and he is probably a better player now then when he was drafted (not just because of the experience, but also with better conditioning). Even Giroux looks better after he spent time with the Phantoms.

Would JVR be better served if he had left college or didn't go and turned pro after the draft? Maybe. While we can't change what has happened, we can only try to make sure he doesn't bust on us or give up too early on him.

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01-12-2009, 04:00 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Seriously, JVR is still 19, and not eligible for the AHL this year anyway.

Next year he is AHL elgible. Kid is 19, don't get your ******* in a twist.
He was AHL eligible at 18, as long as he turned 18 before September 15th. What you are refering to is what age CHL players are allowed to play in the AHL due to an agreement between the CHL and the NHL.

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01-12-2009, 04:02 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Libertine View Post
First of all, it was a scout that said he was regressing, not some random hockey blogger. Secondly, Gare Joyce isn't just some random hockey blogger. He is a journalist that is very interested in the scouting world and spent a year shadowing the Columbus Blue Jackets scouts. He knows more than your average blogger because he is connected to the scouting world.
First of all, to tackle your earlier point, JVR is not a physical guy. He has size and he uses it, but he's not like a Hartnell, he's more like Thornton. I mean, Thornton doesn't hit much, but I don't think SJ is complaining.

And what would UNH get by him retaliating? Their best player spends 5 minutes in the box. If somebody cheapshotted Carter, would you want Carter to attack the guy and get a game misconduct or would you want Cote to handle it? I'd personally want Cote to do it.

It wouldn't surprise me if JVR was under orders not to retaliate tbh although I don't know if he would anyways. Gretzky wasn't the type of guy that would respond to cheap shots, does that make him less of a player?

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Originally Posted by Libertine
Thirdly, has it ever occurred to you that is more about JVR's points at UNH? I don't think Paul Holmgren would be so unhappy with JVR's decision to go back to UNH if he felt JVR was dominating and continuing to progress as a prospect. Paul Holmgren isn't as reactionary as the media and fans are. There is clearly more to it than just one bad game.

JVR's putting up the points, but if it wasn't for one great game against a poor team he would be on the same pace as last season. Last year people here knocked Turris for the exact same thing. So maybe he isn't dominating as much as you think he is by looking at the stat sheet. Like I said above I was reading a UNH thread and some commented that they don't think he is as dominant as his stats suggest and he hasn't dominated the way some of their best players in the past have dominated. These people aren't experts mind you, but these are people who watch him every game.
UNH fans *****ing and moaning, what else is new. I mean, I don't give a crap if he's "dominating" or not as long as he's putting up points and scoring goals which he's doing. According to most of my friends, he's the best player in Hockey East right now and probably the MVP of the league.

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Originally Posted by Libertine
As for college vs the OHL, yes the competition is older, but the quality of opponents aren't necessarily any better. Most of these guys are never going to sniff the NHL. There are more NHL caliber players in the OHL. Most of the best juniors in the world are playing in the Canadian junior leagues. The NCAA guys might have size to their advantage, but it's not as physical as the CHL. So I don't see a clear edge advantage to playing against the older players of the NCAA as opposed to the teens of the OHL/CHL.
If you look at the percentage of NHL caliber players in Hockey East and NHL caliber players in the entire OHL, I'd bet they're fairly similar.

Teams like BC, BU, UNH, and Maine (although not as much recently) have talented, physical teams.

This whole Canadian superiority complex gets annoying at times. There are a lot of crappy teams in the NCAA, no doubt, but conferences like Hockey East and WCHA are just as competitive and hard to play in, if not harder, than the OHL. Look at Parise, top-5 in scoring and Vanek, playing in college hasn't hurt them one bit and they both spent multiple years in college.

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Originally Posted by Libertine
That point is moot anyway because Holmgren wanted to sign him and have him play for the Phantoms instead of going back to UNH. He feels playing more games in the AHL was better for his development and that he isn't progressing enough in college. I choose to go with his word instead of just looking at the stats and assuming everything is fine.
That would be an absolutely moronic move by Holmgren. Frankly, the Flyers should be begging JVR to stay in school. His cap hit is going to be a major, major problem and if he were spending up cap time in the AHL, it's even worse.

And I'm not just looking at stats. I go to a Hockey East school, I have friends at Hockey East schools. We watch JVR fairly consistently. The guy is doing fine.

Also keep in mind that Holmgren is not the end-all be-all of GMs. This is the guy that wanted to trade Carter and a 1st for Kaberle, let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

The whole notion that JVR spending multiple years in college is somehow hurting his development is absurd.

Funny that I've never heard the same criticisms about Oshie, Parise, Vanek, or Toews.

Hmm, all of those guys seem to be doing just fine in the NHL, what a shocker.

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Old
01-12-2009, 04:24 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Just in case this happens, for the record I want to remind everyone that I wanted Voracek
I was on the Voracek wagon as well.

But I'm hoping that JVR responds well to Homer's comments, and will join the Phantoms in April and cruise through.

I hate the idea that the hell season we endured may have resulted in a player that wasn't worth the 2nd overall pick. The plus is that there is still lots of time for JVR to show what he can do, and to prove why Homer picked him 2nd.

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01-12-2009, 04:32 PM
  #60
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Should we start some kind of shame list/thread?

- There's a group of people who really wanted to deal Carter last year.

- There's a group of people who criticized Briere last year, shut up during the playoffs, and then crawled out again this year.

- There's a group of people now criticizing JVR for staying in college and being a Hobey Baker candidate.

It seems to me that there's a lot of people in all 3 groups who just love to complain about various players, then when those players do well, they shut up and move on somewhere else.

Case A: Carter is leading the league in goals and Briere is hurt, so all the vultures move to a 19 year-old kid.

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01-12-2009, 04:38 PM
  #61
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i think jvr wants to compete for hockey east and so far as i know is contending for the hobey baker. i think its very important to him to be playing competitive hockey and didnt want to jump ship on a team depending on him. hes a leader on that team and obviously thier best player its says alot about his character that he chose to go back.

that being said i think this should be his last year in the ncaa. hes better then all the future accountants, teachers and psychologists hes playing against and its time to see how he matches up over a long season with hockey players.

if unh isnt in the frozen four i expect him to report to the phantoms. let him get a taste of the calder cup playoffs and see how compeitive it is. if they are still in contention he has to compete for a spot next year or at least show he can compete for 60+ games.

if training camp come around and word is hes going back to unh i put him on the block. after 2 years at the collegiate level hell just be a big fish in a small pond. hell still be year or so away with or without his degree.

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01-12-2009, 04:49 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Should we start some kind of shame list/thread?

- There's a group of people who really wanted to deal Carter last year.

- There's a group of people who criticized Briere last year, shut up during the playoffs, and then crawled out again this year.

- There's a group of people now criticizing JVR for staying in college and being a Hobey Baker candidate.

It seems to me that there's a lot of people in all 3 groups who just love to complain about various players, then when those players do well, they shut up and move on somewhere else.

Case A: Carter is leading the league in goals and Briere is hurt, so all the vultures move to a 19 year-old kid.


ill admit i was on the trade carter bandwagon. I was sick of seeing and hearing about so much potential and watching him miss shot after shot. Im glad he made me eat my words. Hes one of my fav players now

Im also a Briere hater

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01-12-2009, 04:54 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Should we start some kind of shame list/thread?

- There's a group of people who really wanted to deal Carter last year.

- There's a group of people who criticized Briere last year, shut up during the playoffs, and then crawled out again this year.

- There's a group of people now criticizing JVR for staying in college and being a Hobey Baker candidate.

It seems to me that there's a lot of people in all 3 groups who just love to complain about various players, then when those players do well, they shut up and move on somewhere else.

Case A: Carter is leading the league in goals and Briere is hurt, so all the vultures move to a 19 year-old kid.
- Never wanted to move Carter...let alone for Kaberle.

- I have no issues with Danny Boy. What I don't like, is the contract associated to his name. Especially with Richards and Carter coming into their own as quickly as they did. And yes, I know...hindsight is 20/20.

- I hope JVR makes the professional leap next year and shows the world why he was picked #1...and yes, I do have my doubts. At this juncture, I question his drive, hunger and competetive instincts.

Sure he had a pretty goal at the WJC, but I was otherwise a little disapointed.

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01-12-2009, 05:20 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post

UNH fans *****ing and moaning, what else is new. I mean, I don't give a crap if he's "dominating" or not as long as he's putting up points and scoring goals which he's doing. According to most of my friends, he's the best player in Hockey East right now and probably the MVP of the league..
thats sorta the point. hes already the best player at the level of competition hes playing.


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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
If you look at the percentage of NHL caliber players in Hockey East and NHL caliber players in the entire OHL, I'd bet they're fairly similar.

Teams like BC, BU, UNH, and Maine (although not as much recently) have talented, physical teams.

This whole Canadian superiority complex gets annoying at times. There are a lot of crappy teams in the NCAA, no doubt, but conferences like Hockey East and WCHA are just as competitive and hard to play in, if not harder, than the OHL. Look at Parise, top-5 in scoring and Vanek, playing in college hasn't hurt them one bit and they both spent multiple years in college..
more than two years at either level should be unnecessary for a 1st rd pick let alone one in the top 5.

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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
That would be an absolutely moronic move by Holmgren. Frankly, the Flyers should be begging JVR to stay in school. His cap hit is going to be a major, major problem and if he were spending up cap time in the AHL, it's even worse.
.
he doesnt count against the cap on the phantoms and doesnt count towards having a year of service so far as the nhl is concerned untill he plays 11 nhl games. he does however disqualify himself from returning to the ncaa once he recieves a check from a professional hockey team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
And I'm not just looking at stats. I go to a Hockey East school, I have friends at Hockey East schools. We watch JVR fairly consistently. The guy is doing fine.

Also keep in mind that Holmgren is not the end-all be-all of GMs. This is the guy that wanted to trade Carter and a 1st for Kaberle, let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

The whole notion that JVR spending multiple years in college is somehow hurting his development is absurd.

Funny that I've never heard the same criticisms about Oshie, Parise, Vanek, or Toews.

Hmm, all of those guys seem to be doing just fine in the NHL, what a shocker.

both parise and vanek played two years at college then a year in the ahl which is the route im suggesting we take with jvr. toews made the jump right to the nhl after two years of college which wouldnt be out of the question. staying in college longer says he is off projection to be compared to those players.

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01-12-2009, 05:44 PM
  #65
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He's probably seen pictures of the skanks that regularly receive a ration of baby batter from Carter and Richards and figures there is much better tail to be had where he's at now. And he'd probably be right. JVR gets to bang 18 year-olds rather than girls who have vaginas that look like someone walked up to a rotting pig carcass and kicked a hole in the side with an old boot.

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01-12-2009, 05:53 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
He's probably seen pictures of the skanks that regularly receive a ration of baby batter from Carter and Richards and figures there is much better tail to be had where he's at now. And he'd probably be right. JVR gets to bang 18 year-olds rather than girls who have vaginas that look like someone walked up to a rotting pig carcass and kicked a hole in the side with an old boot.
Richie HAS to do better then that.

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01-12-2009, 05:58 PM
  #67
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JVR is not another Hugh Jessiman.

JVR will stay in school all 4 years and will become a free agent on August 15,2011.He signs with his favorite team growing up-the Rangers.

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01-12-2009, 06:07 PM
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JVR is not another Hugh Jessiman.

JVR will stay in school all 4 years and will become a free agent on August 15,2011.He signs with his favorite team growing up-the Rangers.
please don't do that... you'll get the idiot conspiracy theorists around here in an uproar

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01-12-2009, 06:34 PM
  #69
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01-12-2009, 06:47 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Should we start some kind of shame list/thread?

- There's a group of people who really wanted to deal Carter last year.

- There's a group of people who criticized Briere last year, shut up during the playoffs, and then crawled out again this year.

- There's a group of people now criticizing JVR for staying in college and being a Hobey Baker candidate.

It seems to me that there's a lot of people in all 3 groups who just love to complain about various players, then when those players do well, they shut up and move on somewhere else.

Case A: Carter is leading the league in goals and Briere is hurt, so all the vultures move to a 19 year-old kid.
If people aren't critical, they might not really care. I am no Eagles fan, but many today think they had a right to call for McNabb and Reid's head mid-season. Today, those same people are worshiping the two. Go figure.

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01-12-2009, 07:15 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
He's probably seen pictures of the skanks that regularly receive a ration of baby batter from Carter and Richards and figures there is much better tail to be had where he's at now. And he'd probably be right. JVR gets to bang 18 year-olds rather than girls who have vaginas that look like someone walked up to a rotting pig carcass and kicked a hole in the side with an old boot.
Ha. The college ***** cat factor has not been discussed nearly enough. In no other time in his life will he have access to that same type of cooch. College is a unique experience, indeed.

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01-12-2009, 07:18 PM
  #72
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If people aren't critical, they might not really care. I am no Eagles fan, but many today think they had a right to call for McNabb and Reid's head mid-season. Today, those same people are worshiping the two. Go figure.
Meh, those people are stupid as well.

McNabb: Not his fault this team continuously refuses to run the ball or provide him with a top-notch receiver. The whole benching thing against the Ravens is one of the most overrated things ever. It was a frickin stupid benching considering the O-line couldn't block the the Olsen twins and we were only down by 3.

Reid: Not responsible for our resurgence, the defense has fueled it, created turnovers and absolutely shut down the Giants. I mean, the Eagles had NO running game which is usually a recipe for disaster in the playoffs.

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01-12-2009, 07:19 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by BlackTuuk View Post
Ha. The college ***** cat factor has not been discussed nearly enough. In no other time in his life will he have access to that same type of cooch. College is a unique experience, indeed.
You know, if I was a heck of a sports talent with millions eventually coming my way, I don't see why he could just go to any college in any town he might be in and take care of business?

I mean, I'm no expert, but thats PROBABLY what I'd do, is all I'm sayin.

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01-12-2009, 07:44 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
First of all, to tackle your earlier point, JVR is not a physical guy. He has size and he uses it, but he's not like a Hartnell, he's more like Thornton. I mean, Thornton doesn't hit much, but I don't think SJ is complaining. .
I know he is not a physical guy. I was simply answering the question.

Quote:
And what would UNH get by him retaliating? Their best player spends 5 minutes in the box. If somebody cheapshotted Carter, would you want Carter to attack the guy and get a game misconduct or would you want Cote to handle it? I'd personally want Cote to do it.

It wouldn't surprise me if JVR was under orders not to retaliate tbh although I don't know if he would anyways. Gretzky wasn't the type of guy that would respond to cheap shots, does that make him less of a player?
Hey I don't disagree with you. He certainly is more effective on the ice than he is in the box. I was simply answering the question with the thoughts of the people who get to see him play every game.

Quote:
UNH fans *****ing and moaning, what else is new. I mean, I don't give a crap if he's "dominating" or not as long as he's putting up points and scoring goals which he's doing. According to most of my friends, he's the best player in Hockey East right now and probably the MVP of the league.
I should hope so considering he is the only player to be drafted as high as he was in Hockey East. No one said he isn't doing well, but the question is, is his development where it should be at this time? Looking at the stats sheet doesn't give me the whole story.

Quote:
If you look at the percentage of NHL caliber players in Hockey East and NHL caliber players in the entire OHL, I'd bet they're fairly similar.

Teams like BC, BU, UNH, and Maine (although not as much recently) have talented, physical teams.
There are twice as many prospects taken in the top 3 rounds of the draft playing in the OHL than there are in Hockey East. That doesn't even include potential first round talents in the 09 and 10 drafts such as Tavares, Ellis, Duchene, Kadri, Hall, Doherty, deHaan, and Doherty.

BC and BU are loaded with NHL draft picks, but outside of UNH most of the teams have few if any NHL prospects at all. The OHL has a much higher turnover rate because most draft picks move on after 2 years of being drafted while NCAA picks can be there for 4 years and yet they still have more top end talent.

Quote:
This whole Canadian superiority complex gets annoying at times. There are a lot of crappy teams in the NCAA, no doubt, but conferences like Hockey East and WCHA are just as competitive and hard to play in, if not harder, than the OHL. Look at Parise, top-5 in scoring and Vanek, playing in college hasn't hurt them one bit and they both spent multiple years in college.
This is not about Canadian superiority. No one ever said the NCAA wasn't good for developmenting prospects. Sure, the NCAA has developed some good players, but that doesn't change the fact that the OHL has developed many more. Just because it was good enough for them doesn't mean it was the right choice for JVR's development.

Quote:
That would be an absolutely moronic move by Holmgren. Frankly, the Flyers should be begging JVR to stay in school. His cap hit is going to be a major, major problem and if he were spending up cap time in the AHL, it's even worse.
JVR won't count against the cap in the AHL.

Quote:
And I'm not just looking at stats. I go to a Hockey East school, I have friends at Hockey East schools. We watch JVR fairly consistently. The guy is doing fine.

Also keep in mind that Holmgren is not the end-all be-all of GMs. This is the guy that wanted to trade Carter and a 1st for Kaberle, let's not get ahead of ourselves here.
Holmgren certainly isn't perfect. There isn't a perfect GM in the league. That doesn't make him wrong. He certainly knows more about developing prospects than a bunch of college kids, no offense. BTW he also denied trying to trade Carter. Just sayin'.

Quote:
The whole notion that JVR spending multiple years in college is somehow hurting his development is absurd.

Funny that I've never heard the same criticisms about Oshie, Parise, Vanek, or Toews.

Hmm, all of those guys seem to be doing just fine in the NHL, what a shocker.
So Paul Holmgren, the quoted scout, Gare Joyce, and Pierre McGuire are lunatics for suggesting the same things in regards to JVR. These hockey minds are all a bunch of reactionary morons who are overreacting over one bad game. Stop making excuses already and get real.

I'm sure you never heard the same criticisms of those players because they didn't give a half-hearted effort in one of the biggest stages of their young careers. They didn't balk at turning pro when offered a contract. They jumped at the opportunity to prove that they belong in the best league in the world as soon as they were given the chance.

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Old
01-12-2009, 07:45 PM
  #75
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Ha. The college ***** cat factor has not been discussed nearly enough. In no other time in his life will he have access to that same type of cooch. College is a unique experience, indeed.
but temple penn and drexel wont be going anywhere. do you guys really think its coincidence that the younger guys on the team live in olde city? nightlife man nightlife.

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