Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Wow, now your an expert on Tampa's financial situation. Another 16 year old know it all.
You have no idea what situation in Tampa is like. Nor did the prvious poster post a legitimate claim of Tampa's financial situation. Its a stupid rumor that cannot be claimed as a 'fact'.
Jesus. What do you have against me anyway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Rumours aren't based on facts, otherwise they wouldn't be rumours. You don't know what the Lightning are doing as fact, nor does anyone else here(except maybe Bob McKenize) so everything is speculation at this point. Pierre Lebrun mentioned on the Hotstove tonight that he's been told by various NHL executives that the Lightning are throwing Vinny's name out there in trade talks. Lebrun is a pretty reliable source.
I know that, but once again, rumor is not a fact and it shouldn't be treated as a fact. Which is what the OP did.
Brad Richards was dealt for a then backup goalie, an average third line center, and an average soft third line shootout specialist.
Richards was an underperforming drastically overpaid 1b centre.
Who was traded for a backup goalie with potential to be a starter (which he has since shown), a 2nd/3rd line centre (Halpern was 18 points in the 19 games post trade deadline, that isnt a 3rd line centres numbers) and then Jokinen who is yeah a soft third liner.
On the other hand Vinny is in his prime, he is just 2 seasons removed from scoring the most goals in the league, last year before his injury he was leading the league in points (1.46ppg for the first 42 games) this year he is recovering from his injury.
He is signed to a lifetime contract for less than Richards, despite better production.
Thats why Vinny would get MUCH more than Richards. Oh nevermind the fact that Vinny is the face of the franchise and is loved by the entire Tampa community.
that is equivalent to 5 first round picks + a 2nd as well. if we have to gut the team like that to bring in vinny, then it is not worth it. we'd lose all depth, young (thus cheap) productive player, and we'll be no different than tampa is right now. IMO this will hurt the team more than help.
but then again, i doubt they can get anything close to that package, or the one the asked for from montreal. when was the last time a single player brings back that type of return? gretzky i think. even lindros had lots of players/picks going with him back to philly to bring forsberg + co, no way vinny can get that much IMO>
Van has some good building blocks going.To take Lecavalier off their hands,we need not pay as much(even though hes a great player)--his contract will hamsting a team's cap...
Van can stay the course and be solid for a few years here.
Either Kesler,Edler and a 3rd
or Edler,hodgson,and a third
Still not sure I would do that,trading solid important cogs who are inexpensive and very young players.If Lecavalier's term was a few years shorter than ??
hogdson raymond bieksa and a first
for
Lecavalier and a second
I want to see Lecavalier retire in tampa, but with that being said no picks should leave tampa bay if were trading away a guy that has been the face of the franchise for the last decade just so we can rebuild.
If they trade him they won't get fair value for him. You'd think people would have learned from the Pronger, Thornton and Luongo deals that when you move a superstar for quantity you always get screwed. However, sometimes your other poor moves means you have no choice.
That said, you don't start cutting payroll by moving the face of the franchise. You ship out the overpaid secondary guys out 1st, guys like Malone.
Richards was an underperforming drastically overpaid 1b centre.
Who was traded for a backup goalie with potential to be a starter (which he has since shown), a 2nd/3rd line centre (Halpern was 18 points in the 19 games post trade deadline, that isnt a 3rd line centres numbers) and then Jokinen who is yeah a soft third liner.
On the other hand Vinny is in his prime, he is just 2 seasons removed from scoring the most goals in the league, last year before his injury he was leading the league in points (1.46ppg for the first 42 games) this year he is recovering from his injury.
He is signed to a lifetime contract for less than Richards, despite better production.
Thats why Vinny would get MUCH more than Richards. Oh nevermind the fact that Vinny is the face of the franchise and is loved by the entire Tampa community.
The Bolded is what I question he is signed to 7.727 mil contract that is lik 73 grand less then Richards. Which is not bad but not much less then Richards.
Here if Tampa would move him here would be my proposal:
To Tampa - Sedins (re-signed to multi year deal at approx 5 - 5.5 mil)
Grabner or Raymond
Van 1st 09.
Conditional 1st round pick for 2010 or 2011
To Vancouver- Lecavalier and a high priced salary player they like to get rid of. (ie. Prospal or Malone)
Tampa would lose some salary the Canucks would kind of lose their top line but would have 2 1st line C. (when Sundin gets in shape).
[QUOTE=CM-;17310864]Here if Tampa would move him here would be my proposal:
To Tampa - Sedins (re-signed to multi year deal at approx 5 - 5.5 mil)
Grabner or Raymond
Van 1st 09.
Conditional 1st round pick for 2010 or 2011
To Vancouver- Lecavalier and a high priced salary player they like to get rid of. (ie. Prospal or Malone)
QUOTE]
You forgot Kesler, Edler, and Hodgson....
If you think that the Canucks would move the re-signed Sedins as well as 2 firsts and Raymond/Grabner, you're ... challenged. I'm not going to suggest the return would be something along the lines of what landed Thornton, but 2 nearly ppg players re-signed to good contracts would not require the addition of 2 firsts, if anything at all. Has a team ever traded their 2 top offensive players in one deal?
Not to mention the fact that TB, (if they were going to move him) would not be looking to tie up 10-11 million over the next X years if the reason VL is allegedly available is financial. I think it's safe to assume that if Vancouver were going to land VL, it would be at the cost of Hodgson, Kesler or Edler, picks/prospects.
Vancouver couldn't really offer anything as far as an offensive centre to fill the void, unless of course TB is big on Sundin :wink:
Screw it, let him go to Montreal, or, much more likely, stay where he is.
Here if Tampa would move him here would be my proposal:
To Tampa - Sedins (re-signed to multi year deal at approx 5 - 5.5 mil)
Grabner or Raymond
Van 1st 09.
Conditional 1st round pick for 2010 or 2011
To Vancouver- Lecavalier and a high priced salary player they like to get rid of. (ie. Prospal or Malone)
QUOTE]
You forgot Kesler, Edler, and Hodgson....
If you think that the Canucks would move the re-signed Sedins as well as 2 firsts and Raymond/Grabner, you're ... challenged. I'm not going to suggest the return would be something along the lines of what landed Thornton, but 2 nearly ppg players re-signed to good contracts would not require the addition of 2 firsts, if anything at all. Has a team ever traded their 2 top offensive players in one deal?
Not to mention the fact that TB, (if they were going to move him) would not be looking to tie up 10-11 million over the next X years if the reason VL is allegedly available is financial. I think it's safe to assume that if Vancouver were going to land VL, it would be at the cost of Hodgson, Kesler or Edler, picks/prospects.
Vancouver couldn't really offer anything as far as an offensive centre to fill the void, unless of course TB is big on Sundin :wink:
Screw it, let him go to Montreal, or, much more likely, stay where he is.
How did I forget Kesler Edler or Hodgson I did not include them on purpose.
Tampa would not be adding salary Vinny will be making 7.727 mil Malone makes 4.5 mil Prospal makes 3.5 mil. Say if it were Prospal who is struggling that means they cut about 1.227 mil not much, but then they could also deal Marty who would no longer be apart of there plans or the other one Prospal/Malone.
Sedins together are not even close to the value of Vincent Lecavalier if they were the Canucks would be a better team.
The Sedins would give the Lightning some Stability until their prospects (Stamkos, whoever they draft for 09, etc.) are ready to take the reigns.
Sedins together are not even close to the value of Vincent Lecavalier if they were the Canucks would be a better team.
Daniel Sedin will score 40 goals this year. Henrik could finish in the top-five in the league in assists... and you're suggesting that, having locked them up cheap and long-term, the Canucks would subsequently have to add a promising offensive prospect and two first round draft picks. Give your head a shake. The Sedins would be perennial 90-pt men in the East (and at least Daniel will probably make it this year). It would not be impossible for them to go higher than that. I wouldn't make the trade in the first place (Canucks can't fill the void left by replacing two players with one), but you're ridiculously underrating them.
Daniel Sedin will score 40 goals this year. Henrik could finish in the top-five in the league in assists... and you're suggesting that, having locked them up cheap and long-term, the Canucks would subsequently have to add a promising offensive prospect and two first round draft picks. Give your head a shake. The Sedins would be perennial 90-pt men in the East (and at least Daniel will probably make it this year). It would not be impossible for them to go higher than that. I wouldn't make the trade in the first place (Canucks can't fill the void left by replacing two players with one), but you're ridiculously underrating them.
Does anyone even read what I proposed?!
I never said all 5 for just Vinny... yes a 1st + Grabner would be a little to much for a Prospal/Malone but it would be the sweetener to put it over the top.
Damn I've watched the twins since they've come into this league yes they are good players... no they are not worth an elite player plus a good player. Sedins being 90 pt players in the East would not be a given a possible situation yes but not a given...
Plus lets do break it down. Sedins are 70-80 pt players. have not proven to be more. So they in themselves are good for 160 points. (I agree with most that of the 160 points it only equals approx. 110-130 goals. but that isn't in my argument here.) Vincent Lecavalier is good for 100-110 points by himself add in Prospal who is good for another 55-65 points so that is 155-175 for Vinny/Prospal to 140-160 for the Sedins.
Would be extremely risky bringing Lecavalier? Yes but it would give us two dynamic Centers (now and in the future) and would allow us to have what I believe is a better team then a team with the Sedins.
