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01/10/09 Washington Capitals at Montreal Candiens. Centre Bell. 7:00 PM

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Old
01-12-2009, 08:54 AM
  #401
txpd
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Our new friend Harsh appears on the surface to be a Jackets fan. He certainly thinks little of the east in general and the Caps in particular. Thats ok. His opinions are based on information levels of a non-fan/non-daily follower. To be this critical about a team and a coach that has, if not the best record in the NHL from thanksgiving '07 to present,
they are in the top 5, just doesn't make a lot of sense.

does the team need to improve? sure. they are not the detroit red wings. but detroit has a core of veteran cup winner/best in the game players like Nik Lidstrom.

lets look at the basic stats. the caps gaa is 19th in the nhl. calgary is 23rd. washington is 11th in shots against. calgary is 13th, vanc 14th, montreal 18th, minnesota 19th, boston 20th.

a lot of the grief he brings is based on theodore/kolzig's struggles. look at calgary.
kipper has had a rough start. his gaa/sv % is 2.83/.902. theodore's gaa/sv % is 2.89/.895. as the goaltending gets sharper the team gaa goes down as the sv % goes up.

if he wants to bust on bruce, let him. the caps sit second in the east at halfway. they are setting themselves up for a better post season.

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01-12-2009, 09:09 AM
  #402
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Bruce's system, when executed properly, functions quite well defensively, simply due to its puck posession aspect.

Focusing primarily on defensive play is counterproductive to his methods. Rather than the focus, solid defense is a secondary outcome of the system.

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01-12-2009, 09:25 AM
  #403
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
Chillax people.
Brutal.

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01-12-2009, 10:32 AM
  #404
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Originally Posted by AllIsFehrNLoveAndWar View Post
"I am saying that it is the coaches responsibility to get a team to play the way that will win games in the playoffs."

Well the Caps came one goal away from beating a team that was pretty much the same as them through the regular season and a team that went on to destroy a stronger defensive team in the next round in less games. You know what other teams lost in the first round in the East? the Bruins (which you posted about as great defenders), the Devils (another team great at D), and the Senators (well they sucked).
You are applying your argument half within the context of this year, and half within the context of last year. Boston is great defensively THIS year. The flyers sucked defensively LAST year too. The Habs goaltending was BRUTAL vs. the flyers and cost them the series.

----

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Yeah its obvious you arent a Caps fan when you say this:

"It IS about the coach demanding more, coaching the details and placing value in checking and protecting and working for the goalies."

Bruce DOES demand more out of the guys on the team, I think you must not know much about him if you have missed that.
I watch them play and I can see that the demand for them to be responsible in all three zones is absent. I was cheering hard for them to beat the Flyers last year and because they can't defend, they lost.

----

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I bet you there is no other playoff team that switches our top 7 D for their top 7 D for the rest of this season only (except maybe the Devils). So yeah a lot of it is personnel, give the Caps a Chara or Lidstrom and see where their GA is at.
Huh? Not sure what you are trying to say, but am CERTAIN you are missing the point. Being responsible defensively comes from a team commitment, not from one player.

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Like I said he isn't perfect but if you think Babcock or some other coach is going to take Green-Morrisonn-Poti-Alzner-Jurcina-Schultz to the cup playing defense first hockey then you are mistaken. The Caps best chance to win now is to not rely on the D being perfect, these guys make mistakes and they probably will for then next couple years, they are young and inexperienced. Also he hasn't even had the Caps 6 best defenseman play in a single game all season...
It is the job of the coach to devise a system that will assure the teams success regardless of who is in the lineup. Some nights it will be harder than others because of who is in, but just watching the caps, there is no commitment to that approach whatsoever.

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You can look at Bruce's teams in the minors and see where their GA is at, usually near the best in the league.
Minor league's? Great. This is the NHL and the coaches are far superior to those in the minors. He got his butt handed to him by a borderline NHL roster on friday night because their coach came up with a game plan that would give them a chance to fend off the high octane Caps. Mason kept them in the game in the first, but beyond that, the jackets were on par with the caps the rest of the way. The caps got frustrated because they were getting stopped up and strayed further away from playing as a unit and the individuality of each player rose to the surface.

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Lets see his credentials:

After 102 Games: 64-28-10 .696 - Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and call you out on not knowing more then a coach that has won at almost 70% rate in the NHL.
[/QUOTE]

See, that is the problem. He can do no wrong. His team is loaded with some of the best offensive players in the game and they feast off of the weakest division in the league while playing in the weaker conference. Experienced coaches know how to stop teams like the caps up, fortunately for the Caps, most of the experienced coaches in the league are in the West.

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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2010 View Post
You clearly don't know much about our roster/defense. We don't have the personnel to be a strong defensive team. Right now we don't even have the healthy bodies to be a decent defensive team right now.
Kind of a contradiction between the above and this isn't it?

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You're spewing all this stuff about Bruce, but he's coaching with the hand he's been dealt. He has a roster that is a balls to the walls offensive group. Caps are constructed to win games 5-3, 6-4, etc...not 2-1. What you're suggesting just isn't going to happen. Hanlon tried that defensive lockdown BS and it's what sunk the team and cost him his job.
Well, which is it? They aren't healthy enough to be responsible, or they aren't designed for it. The reality is that the system doesn't demand it. Watching them play, sure, they may be a bit undermanned, but it doesn't mean that they effort to execute and play with defensive responsibility has to be absent. If you aren't good enough you aren' t good enough (because of injuries) but the system doesn't go out the window when the players go on the IR. The fact of the matter is the system isnt' in place and they will be worse off in the long run as a result.

You can't win in the playoffs thinking you are going to win games 5-4, or 6-4. It didn't work last year for the caps, and it likely won't work again.

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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
if he wants to bust on bruce, let him. the caps sit second in the east at halfway. they are setting themselves up for a better post season.
If you see this as 'busting on Bruce' you are missing the point. It is about a team who has the tools to go deep but not the system.

I don't care about Bruce Boudreau--he has had a whirlwind and a heck of a start to his pro career, but if he wants to win it all, he is going to have to adjust.

Referring to Hanlon as a capable coach in this league is a farce. To say 'we tried that with Hanlon and it doesn't work' is absurd.

I am just trying to find the exact numbers, but the east vs. west record is heavily in the west's favor.


Last edited by mrwarden: 01-12-2009 at 10:54 AM. Reason: three straight posts
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Old
01-12-2009, 10:54 AM
  #405
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psycho babble

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01-12-2009, 10:56 AM
  #406
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psycho babble
I would have gone with circular logic, but yours works too.

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01-12-2009, 10:56 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by Biscuit Bullet View Post
Bruce's system, when executed properly, functions quite well defensively, simply due to its puck posession aspect.

Focusing primarily on defensive play is counterproductive to his methods. Rather than the focus, solid defense is a secondary outcome of the system.
Nice summation, but it doesn't work as you get deeper in the playoffs. The wings are very much a puck possession team, but what also helped them win last year was the fact that they can check like crazy.


Last edited by hashmarks: 01-13-2009 at 10:22 AM.
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01-12-2009, 04:43 PM
  #408
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Didn't Hanlon try a more defensive system? What happened to him? We scored less goals and gave up more goals with him then Bruce.

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01-12-2009, 04:57 PM
  #409
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Well, I'm convinced. I guess it's time for Boudreau to go.

So, Tortorella, Laviolette, or Quinn?

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01-12-2009, 05:10 PM
  #410
brs03
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Well, I'm convinced. I guess it's time for Boudreau to go.

So, Tortorella, Laviolette, or Quinn?
Which one is the best at the trap? Apparently that's our only hope...

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01-12-2009, 05:48 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post

See, that is the problem. He can do no wrong. His team is loaded with some of the best offensive players in the game and they feast off of the weakest division in the league while playing in the weaker conference. Experienced coaches know how to stop teams like the caps up, fortunately for the Caps, most of the experienced coaches in the league are in the West.
i'm not really reading or taking issue or responding to anything in the rest of your argument, simply because of the above. do your homework, friend. the caps have feasted on everyone but the southeast.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm...82009&type=XVE

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01-12-2009, 06:56 PM
  #412
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Hahaha who is still trolling after three days and another game has passed?

Christ

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01-12-2009, 07:21 PM
  #413
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I just saw that final Monty goal again. When Karl near fans on the puck with his gloved hand and then does with his twig, there is not much Jurcina can be expected to do. As luck had it, the puck was moving the same speed backwards as he was after the puck went 5 hole just as he closed his skates. He spun around the wrong way, and goal, game over. I wonder if Johnny yelled out any instructions. or should have, like " i got it". It seemed like Johnny could have had that one.

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01-12-2009, 07:23 PM
  #414
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I just saw that final Monty goal again. When Karl near fans on the puck with his gloved hand and then does with his twig, there is not much Jurcina can be expected to do. As luck had it, the puck was moving the same speed backwards as he was after the puck went 5 hole just as he closed his skates. He spun around the wrong way, and goal, game over. I wonder if Johnny yelled out any instructions. or should have, like " i got it". It seemed like Johnny could have had that one.
It seemed like a 10 year old could have had that.

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01-12-2009, 08:04 PM
  #415
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Originally Posted by Backstrom #19 View Post
It seemed like a 10 year old could have had that.
yea, I am really surprised people are saying even more about it. It really was one of the worst goals a Caps goaltender has given up for some time. Especially when take the timing of it into consideration.

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01-12-2009, 08:48 PM
  #416
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yea, I am really surprised people are saying even more about it. It really was one of the worst goals a Caps goaltender has given up for some time. Especially when take the timing of it into consideration.
Yeah I agree. I can somewhat understand Jurcina loosing the puck in his feet, sometimes things happen. What I don't understand is how Johnson let in that shot in with such little time left on the clock.

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01-12-2009, 10:02 PM
  #417
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
I just saw that final Monty goal again. When Karl near fans on the puck with his gloved hand and then does with his twig, there is not much Jurcina can be expected to do. As luck had it, the puck was moving the same speed backwards as he was after the puck went 5 hole just as he closed his skates. He spun around the wrong way, and goal, game over. I wonder if Johnny yelled out any instructions. or should have, like " i got it". It seemed like Johnny could have had that one.
If jurcina wasn't consistent at demonstrating his lack of puck awareness I'd agree with you. But that was a triple point of failure (karl, jurcina,johnson) and he's been the most consistent moron while the other two have shown a much higher level of play. That's the only difference in my mind.

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01-12-2009, 10:12 PM
  #418
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I can see why the initial reaction was all over Jurcina, I mean, he did look the worst on the play. Every one of us was watching the puck and probably didn't think about how it got there or the shot afterward.

Now that we all got some time to get over and see it again, Johnson should take most of the blame there. I'm not disappointed in Alzner for trying to make a play, or Jurcina - I mean that is Jurcina's game, he puts a few shots on net, takes a dumb penalty every other game, and gives the other team a chance when they make a good play, can't be too disappointed in him - maybe Bruce for putting him on the ice there or GMGM for not getting us a shutdown guy with 1 minute to go in a tie game.

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01-13-2009, 10:27 AM
  #419
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i'm not really reading or taking issue or responding to anything in the rest of your argument, simply because of the above. do your homework, friend. the caps have feasted on everyone but the southeast.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/standings.htm...82009&type=XVE
Ummm, kind of a skewed stat isn't it? You have played the other divisions 11 times, and the south-least only 8. Not exactly a reasonable comparison is it?

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01-13-2009, 10:44 AM
  #420
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Congratulations on completely contradicting your "feasting off the Southeast" statement with that post. Well done.

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01-13-2009, 11:15 AM
  #421
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Congratulations on completely contradicting your "feasting off the Southeast" statement with that post. Well done.
Agreed. Way to completely disprove your own point

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