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Old
01-14-2009, 05:37 PM
  #1
ecemleafs
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Funny Fact

In 2006 Wade Redden and Michal Rozsival were joint winners of the NHL Plus/Minus award.....and the season before that, 03/04 the winner was Marek Malik.

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Old
01-14-2009, 06:16 PM
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otto1219
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+/- is a completely useless stat

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01-14-2009, 06:33 PM
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nyr2k2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otto1219 View Post
+/- is a completely useless stat
Useful in context. On it's own, worthless. It's been argued here a gazillion times.

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Old
01-14-2009, 06:46 PM
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BBKers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otto1219 View Post
+/- is a completely useless stat
I don not see how +/- is entirely worthless - but at times misleading, yes. For example N Lidströms constantly high level in the +/- statistics the past 8 years while logging major minutes on D says he is very important for the team while at even strength and has a dominating role creating offense while being on ice for few goals against. Maliks high +/- stats indicated that he was not entirely useless statistically and probably was far less useless than often accused of being - but he also made a plethora of blundering plays that constantly aggravated the fanbase here. This is however not registered statistically and it is a subjective trait. That carries validity too I might add. But coaches see +/- far more importantly than Most people on these boards do and that I know is a fact. Not that feel I can convince anyone here of their importance, but...

If the entire team has + stats - I presume your record would be pretty good even though the PP and PK stats become very decisive then.

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01-14-2009, 06:51 PM
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BBKers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
In 2006 Wade Redden and Michal Rozsival were joint winners of the NHL Plus/Minus award.....and the season before that, 03/04 the winner was Marek Malik.
Should we trade Kalinin for Malik and unite the 3 on the blueline while only using 2 forwards (have 2 forwards on instead of 3)? And have them log like 45 minutes a game. Only using the other d on PK and PP? is that what u r trying to insinuate?
Then we would have a lot better GF and GA stats - provided we do not give up too many shorthanded goals...

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Old
01-14-2009, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Useful in context. On it's own, worthless. It's been argued here a gazillion times.
Gazillion and 0ne

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Old
01-14-2009, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
I don not see how +/- is entirely worthless - but at times misleading, yes. For example N Lidströms constantly high level in the +/- statistics the past 8 years while logging major minutes on D says he is very important for the team while at even strength and has a dominating role creating offense while being on ice for few goals against. Maliks high +/- stats indicated that he was not entirely useless statistically and probably was far less useless than often accused of being - but he also made a plethora of blundering plays that constantly aggravated the fanbase here. This is however not registered statistically and it is a subjective trait. That carries validity too I might add. But coaches see +/- far more importantly than Most people on these boards do and that I know is a fact. Not that feel I can convince anyone here of their importance, but...

If the entire team has + stats - I presume your record would be pretty good even though the PP and PK stats become very decisive then.

Your use of Lidstrom is extreme when comparing +/- to an average NHL player. I think you know that, though. You bring up some solid points but most address +/- from a team standpoint as opposed to an individual. The fact that Gary Roberts has a higher +/- than Mark Messier, Phil Esposito, and Steve Yzerman is all the proof I need that the statistic standing on its own is very weak.

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Old
01-14-2009, 07:39 PM
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NYR Sting
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I'm not going to start arguing the merits and demerits of +/-, but anyone who thinks its a joke that Marek Malik had such a high +/- when he was on the Canucks thinks so because they probably never watched that team play.

Malik was pretty damn good on Vancouver, especially when paired with Jovanovski. Malik wasn't too shabby in 05-06, either. For whatever reason, his play just went downhill.

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