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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

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Old
01-15-2009, 10:22 PM
  #76
loxcane
 
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Why are you guys so hung up on the Carter story? He was having a terrible year, at that point in time, and Richards was playing great. It would have been a plausible trade at the time. What I don't get, aside from the offer which isn't thought out, is why you have to talk down Kaberle in these threads. Philadelphia was obviously interested in him last year, and he's an elite defenceman who'll fetch a high price if he gets traded.

It makes more sense for you just to point out that Philly already traded for Carle and doesn't need Kaberle as much as they did last year, rather than running down Kaberle. He'll get a first, top prospect and roster player at the deadline if he gets traded.
Maybe for the same reason that once a proposal is rejected, Leaf fans feel the need to talk down the players involved in the deal. Turnaround is fair play. Maybe if a proposal didn't involve players you know you won't get, and had any semblance of realism, there wouldn't be so much animosity to begin with. Start with that and see where it gets you.

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Old
01-16-2009, 09:19 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
He was having a terrible year, at that point in time, and Richards was playing great. It would have been a plausible trade at the time.
I don't want to say he was having a terrible year, but when you're ranked as the 3rd center and not getting much playing time - as long as you still have that potential to be something - you can become an easy target for trade talks. He really started to break out when he needed to step up his game due to injuries to other players last year and since then he's been on a different level of play.

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Old
01-16-2009, 01:13 PM
  #78
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No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No!!!! No! No! No! No! We Want Jvr And Knuble Get Rid Of Jones

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Old
01-16-2009, 01:32 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Why are you guys so hung up on the Carter story? He was having a terrible year, at that point in time, and Richards was playing great. It would have been a plausible trade at the time. What I don't get, aside from the offer which isn't thought out, is why you have to talk down Kaberle in these threads. Philadelphia was obviously interested in him last year, and he's an elite defenceman who'll fetch a high price if he gets traded.

It makes more sense for you just to point out that Philly already traded for Carle and doesn't need Kaberle as much as they did last year, rather than running down Kaberle. He'll get a first, top prospect and roster player at the deadline if he gets traded.
Hmmm, so a guy like marian hossa, who is a great two way forward, gets two average forwards, a decent prospect (angelo isn't someone I'm holding my breath at making a huge impact), and a 1st in a draft which isn't nearly as deep as this year and you think kaberle, a good PP QB, but subpar at best defensively, is going to yield nearly the same return? You must be insane! Kaberle will get a good, not great, prospect (i.e. Nodl not giroux or JVR) and a late 1st and more than likely some UFA forward as a salary dump as most playoff contending teams are going to be at the cap. Thats about the best I see you guys getting in return for Kaberle.

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Old
01-16-2009, 01:36 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by azntam View Post
brutal, kaberle is worthless.

all the talk about last years offers have spoiled the leafs, you will not get anything like what you would have got last year for Kaberle. Blame JFJ for handing out NTC like candy at holloween
Now i'll admit, thats not the best offer in the world, but we'll see how worthless Kaberle come March 4th.

I bet he gets more attention than any other player that day.

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Old
01-16-2009, 01:41 PM
  #81
Cosmic Shame
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Originally Posted by Cannonation View Post
Hmmm, so a guy like marian hossa, who is a great two way forward, gets two average forwards, a decent prospect (angelo isn't someone I'm holding my breath at making a huge impact), and a 1st in a draft which isn't nearly as deep as this year and you think kaberle, a good PP QB, but subpar at best defensively, is going to yield nearly the same return? You must be insane! Kaberle will get a good, not great, prospect (i.e. Nodl not giroux or JVR) and a late 1st and more than likely some UFA forward as a salary dump as most playoff contending teams are going to be at the cap. Thats about the best I see you guys getting in return for Kaberle.
The main difference between Hossa and Kaberle (which has been pointed out before) is that Kaberle is NOT a rental. He is signed for 2 more years on a VERY good contract. That can't be discounted. Hossa was a rental for the playoffs, and that was it. Even if the Pens wanted to resign him, they knew they wouldn't get him for a bargain deal.

I'm not saying that the OPs proposal is good... I don't even think Philly is a good trading partner with Toronto for Kaberle (mainly due to the many good points mentioned in this thread), but to say that Kaberle is not worth a great prospect due to the Hossa deal is just a bad comparison. A better comparison is the Boyle deal.
A decent player with upside but underperforming, a blue-chip prospect and a first. That was preseason though, and if Toronto is lucky we'll get a bit more of an overpayment due to the deadline.
Maybe he won't get that, but that is a much better comparison and what teams should be expecting to pay.

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Old
01-16-2009, 01:43 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Cannonation View Post
Hmmm, so a guy like marian hossa, who is a great two way forward, gets two average forwards, a decent prospect (angelo isn't someone I'm holding my breath at making a huge impact), and a 1st in a draft which isn't nearly as deep as this year and you think kaberle, a good PP QB, but subpar at best defensively, is going to yield nearly the same return? You must be insane! Kaberle will get a good, not great, prospect (i.e. Nodl not giroux or JVR) and a late 1st and more than likely some UFA forward as a salary dump as most playoff contending teams are going to be at the cap. Thats about the best I see you guys getting in return for Kaberle.
Hossa was a rental for less than half a season. Kaberle is signed for 2 more years after this year and will be there for 3 playoffs.

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Old
01-16-2009, 01:46 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by nogoalov View Post
Maybe for the same reason that once a proposal is rejected, Leaf fans feel the need to talk down the players involved in the deal. Turnaround is fair play. Maybe if a proposal didn't involve players you know you won't get, and had any semblance of realism, there wouldn't be so much animosity to begin with. Start with that and see where it gets you.
Lol are you kidding? NO leaf fan talks down Carter. They all still wish Kaberle had waived for that proposed deal.

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Old
01-16-2009, 01:46 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
Now i'll admit, thats not the best offer in the world, but we'll see how worthless Kaberle come March 4th.

I bet he gets more attention than any other player that day.
Agreed. Whether or not Leaf fans overrate their players/prospects, Kaberle is what he is, a premier offensive puck moving defenceman in the NHL. There are alot of teams in the League that could you use a player fo his talents, not to mention the fact he is still young, and he is under contract (a very fair one at that) for three more playoff runs. Combine that with quality and ammount of UFA D that will potentially be on the market this summer (I think Komisarek will be resigned) and the potential cap going down, Kaberle has alot of value. I don't think that a first, top prospect and roster player is unfair value to say the least, one would hope that the Leafs would want to replace a premier player with quality not quantity. That being said, not sure Philly is a fit especially with the addition of Carle, would be curious to see where he ends up, I like New J or Montreal IMO. IMO Premier goalie is worth more than a premier forward or D, and a premier defenceman is more valuable than a premier forward. Look at what some D men were able to garner at the deadline in years past, certainlly good but not elite defenceman at that.

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Old
01-16-2009, 04:27 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by RawBo View Post
Don't get me wrong, it's a horrible trade proposal also.
my honest to goodness flyers offer would look like this

luca sbisa (possible future replacement)
andreas nodl (nice building block player)
mike ratchchuk or marc bourdon (nice defense prospect)
darrell powe (young 4th liner might be 3rd))
randy jones (4/5 puckmoving dman)

powe and jones are there for slary purposes but they arent dumps. in the absence of kaberle jones'd play for toronto and powe is a guy theyll use as well. i dont see the flyers dealing this years first for anyone who doesnt wear a goalie mask.

i dont know that that deal works for philly or toronto but i see this as a fair apraisal of his value.

top prospect or 1st in 09
2 second tier prospects
nhl players under 30 to match salary

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