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Old
01-16-2009, 06:25 PM
  #51
LeMAD
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Originally Posted by BulldogFever View Post
If only his name was Chiplatendresse, then maybe he would get a chance. He was never going to be a superstar. He plays 10 minutes a game maybe. He's just another whipping boy for the posters on this board!
Now that's just stupid. The organisation is full of people who know their hockey. If Chipchura doesn't have the chances that Quebecers, Canadians, Americans and Russians had, that's because either they think he doesn't deserve it, or because they doubt he has what it takes, or both.

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01-16-2009, 06:36 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by CdHC View Post
Chipchura not at the NHL level? This forum is becoming a joke.

He's doing exactly what the coaches want from him. If they wanted him to score goals, set up plays and control the flow of the game, then he'd be in a more prominent role playing with top 6 players and not the Begins and DAgostini's of the team.

The guy is more NHL ready than anyone gives him credit for. I also do not see how anyone can say he is too slow for the NHL. These must be the same people that thought Latendresse was NHL ready in 05.

Some of you people are unreal.
Actually Carbonneau said a few times this season the he asks his 4th liners to be more than just playing well defensively (which Chipchura could to better). They have to score goals, bring intensity, be efficient on the power play, win faceoffs, etc. And Chipchura is not doing it. He's not a total liability, but playing like Andreas Dackell and Niklas Sundstrum isn't good enough to earn a spot on the team over other guys.

I'm absolutelty not a Chipchura or any other player basher, but if you want to play in the NHL you have to bring something to the table. And he's not.

If I'm not mistaken he'll have to clear waivers to be sent down next year. So he has until then to prove that he's more than an mediocre 4th line player, or else he will end up in Atlanta/Long Island.

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01-16-2009, 06:46 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by davedave View Post
What I find somewhat puzzling is that the good part of Chipchura's game looks to be about the same as what it was last year and even the year before. But, admittedly drawing on a small NHL sample, the other parts don't seem to have gotten better. He is still lousy on face-offs, vulnerable for lack of speed in the neutral zone, and limited offensively in an overall way.

It's hard to say. I've always been a fan of Chipchura, but his call-up has been very underwhelming for a 1st round pick in his 3rd full AHL season, 4th if you accept Gainey's calculus that winning a Calder Cup counts as a season unto itself. And it's not like he's been put in a position where he can't succeed. We can make excuses for D'Agostini playing on the 4th line that we can't make for Chipchura because his game is supposed to translate well, at minimum, to a 4th line role being given generous minutes.
It seems he's trying to fight the limited offensive upside talk by looking for plays that aren't there. I've seen a few turnovers high in the zone on plays that you just can't do as a 4th line.

That's not an issue as it's correctable, what I'm a bit wary of is he doesn't seem strong on the puck, esp. in his own zone, his first step doesn't seem strong, sort of lacks authority, and he tends to get moved around a bit in his zone. Maybe it's an issue with a lingering inury, not sure.

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01-16-2009, 07:21 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
It seems he's trying to fight the limited offensive upside talk by looking for plays that aren't there. I've seen a few turnovers high in the zone on plays that you just can't do as a 4th line.

That's not an issue as it's correctable, what I'm a bit wary of is he doesn't seem strong on the puck, esp. in his own zone, his first step doesn't seem strong, sort of lacks authority, and he tends to get moved around a bit in his zone. Maybe it's an issue with a lingering inury, not sure.
Good points McPhee, well taken observations.

I saw and commented on how he seemed to make an adjustment in his game in Hamilton this year, looking for more offense, having some defensive lapses that were uncharacteristic for him. It worked well for him and the team, as although he was seeing just a sniff of PP time and playing 3rd line even strength minutes, he was racking up some points playing with Russell and Stewart.

I think he's caught in between in Montreal right now, wanting to show management some in-game playmaking ability (which, some posters here aside, he has full capability of doing). It's not translating well and he's tentative and off on his decision making. He's made more poor plays in the last four games than he'd have made maybe the whole of last season in Hamilton.

I'll speak from the position of one of his biggest fans. I've always gravitated toward liking the unsung heroes on any given Montreal team, guys that never impress the fans by putting up big numbers or doing anything exceptionally well. They just get it done when it counts. It happened for me doing the Calder Cup run. He elevated his game and was (arguably) the best two way player on that Championship team, shutting down the top two AHL lines in the final two series and chipping in some offense. And he was always there when it got physical. He found a way to get it done. I don't think you can measure that.

I've seen enough of him to know he'll battle through, find his game again. Luckily for us fans (hear me Erika? take a cue), Lapierre has simplified his game and squeezed out any remaining chance Chip gets at a spot on a healthy Habs roster this season.

I'm happy if Chip goes under the radar again only if it means that he hasn't drawn enough attention to get moved.

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Old
01-17-2009, 03:16 AM
  #55
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I see Chipchura's drop pass to an unsuspecting Begin coming down behind the play makes Chipchura a liability or a bad passer, even though Begin, for the life of him, couldn't take a pass if his life depended on it. He has no awareness, if that was another player on the team, he would have picked the puck up. Chipchura made a nice drop pass, maybe an inch too short for Begin, then again, Begin isn't the kind of player that will recieve too many fancy passes like that.

I can think of 3 or 4 different situations where he's set up either Dags or Begin nicely from behind the net Joe Thornton style and both those guys couldn't take a pass or finish on the shot. There was also that slick pass when Pacioretty scored his first goal I think it was, but everyone seems to harp on the one bad one.

Unless your expectations of him are to be a #1 center scoring 80+ a game, there is no reason to think he'll never make it. I still contend that he is a fast skater. I have no idea where this idea that he is slow comes from. He's good enough defensively and will get better. Offensively I find him underrated by many, especially when you consider who he plays with and how little ice time he gets.

If there is a prospect that has shown nothing, it's Maxwell. Chipchura is the laest of our concerns.

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01-17-2009, 03:41 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CdHC View Post
If there is a prospect that has shown nothing, it's Maxwell. Chipchura is the laest of our concerns.
One tends to expect more from third year pro than rookies...

Besides, with Maxwells injury history from last two seasons, small wonder he struggles in his first games in the big show. How'bout giving the guy two full seasons of development in AHL before making any conclusions?

Chipchura has still time. Plekanec played full three seasons in Hamilton before getting a full times NHL job. Plus, next offseason will no doubt bring lots of changes to current roster. If he's still a Hab next season, I think he'll be a regular.

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01-17-2009, 07:28 AM
  #57
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I believe the problem with Chipchura is mostly due to the line that he is on. They all play a different type of game. I believe if he centered Lats and Kosto he would fit really well with that style of play ( dont flame me, not saying removing laps from that line ). As much as i believe that D'ago doesnt belong in that kind of 4th line role, where he is better off on a high speed line, which is why he played so well with koivu and with Tanguay.

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01-17-2009, 09:03 AM
  #58
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I love the people saying hes too slow, just like Lang is too slow. In all honesty Sergei Kostitsyn seems like hes skating with a fridge on his back lately. It seems like every game hes being caught by back checkers when hes skating the puck over the offensive blue line.

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01-17-2009, 09:06 AM
  #59
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A groin injury not 100% healed may explain his play as others said..

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01-17-2009, 10:52 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by SJSR View Post
I believe the problem with Chipchura is mostly due to the line that he is on. They all play a different type of game. I believe if he centered Lats and Kosto he would fit really well with that style of play ( dont flame me, not saying removing laps from that line ). As much as i believe that D'ago doesnt belong in that kind of 4th line role, where he is better off on a high speed line, which is why he played so well with koivu and with Tanguay.
From watching in Hamilton Chipchura was the best forward of the four that are now up. Give him a couple of decent line mates and he will make an impact. His injury may also be a factor. He's been up and down so many times I'm sure he is pushing himself to stay in Montreal.

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01-17-2009, 11:36 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJSR View Post
I believe the problem with Chipchura is mostly due to the line that he is on. They all play a different type of game. I believe if he centered Lats and Kosto he would fit really well with that style of play ( dont flame me, not saying removing laps from that line ). As much as i believe that D'ago doesnt belong in that kind of 4th line role, where he is better off on a high speed line, which is why he played so well with koivu and with Tanguay.
If he can't play better and show his stuff (willingness to compete and be dependable) on a fourth line, he certainly doesn't deserve to play on a higher line and get more ice time.

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01-17-2009, 11:38 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by CaptKirk View Post
I love the people saying hes too slow, just like Lang is too slow. In all honesty Sergei Kostitsyn seems like hes skating with a fridge on his back lately. It seems like every game hes being caught by back checkers when hes skating the puck over the offensive blue line.
I think SK is too reliant on slowing down the play as he crosses the line, it's just a matter of learning to vary his play rather than a lack of speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CdHC View Post
I see Chipchura's drop pass to an unsuspecting Begin coming down behind the play makes Chipchura a liability or a bad passer, even though Begin, for the life of him, couldn't take a pass if his life depended on it. He has no awareness, if that was another player on the team, he would have picked the puck up. Chipchura made a nice drop pass, maybe an inch too short for Begin, then again, Begin isn't the kind of player that will recieve too many fancy passes like that.

I can think of 3 or 4 different situations where he's set up either Dags or Begin nicely from behind the net Joe Thornton style and both those guys couldn't take a pass or finish on the shot. There was also that slick pass when Pacioretty scored his first goal I think it was, but everyone seems to harp on the one bad one.

Unless your expectations of him are to be a #1 center scoring 80+ a game, there is no reason to think he'll never make it. I still contend that he is a fast skater. I have no idea where this idea that he is slow comes from. He's good enough defensively and will get better. Offensively I find him underrated by many, especially when you consider who he plays with and how little ice time he gets.

If there is a prospect that has shown nothing, it's Maxwell. Chipchura is the laest of our concerns.
I think it means that he made a bad decision, a bad pass. It doesn't mean he's a bad passer. Chipchura doesn't have the talent to make low % plays like a Lafleur did, he had the ability to play high risk high reward. The guy's just forcing things a bit.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 01-17-2009 at 04:29 PM.
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01-17-2009, 11:46 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I think SK is too reliant on slowing down the play as he crosses the line, it's just a matter of learning to vary his play rather than a lack of speed.
I agree with you, he stops moving his feet once he crosses the line. I was just trying to make the point that I don't think Chipchura's problem has anything to do with speed.

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01-17-2009, 12:25 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I think SK is too reliant on slowing down the play as he crosses the line, it's just a matter of learning to vary his play rather than a lack of speed.
Learning from King Russia maybe?

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01-17-2009, 12:46 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Tout ptit View Post
Learning from King Russia maybe?
Only Kovy does Kovy moves. The older K. has some of that but winding up on the off wing is a play that we'll miss when we don't see it anymore. Sometimes, esp. at this time of the year, it can get a bit dreary and Kovalev dances thru the zone, for no apparent reason, just to prove that he can, and I'm happy to see it.

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01-17-2009, 03:13 PM
  #66
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I only wanted to state that people are more patient with Latendresse because he's from Quebec. They're a year apart, big and slow skaters with a lot of time to get better. We shouldn't give up on neither player. Including Hamilton and Montreal:
GP G A Pts +/-
Chipchura 181 27 58 75 +9
Latendresse 189 40 33 73 -19

Chipchura captained a WJC Championship & won a Calder Cup. And they'll probably need him next year when Lang and/or Koivu aren't signed. Especially if we get Vinny's
$10 million contract.

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01-17-2009, 03:23 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
I think it means that he made a bad decision, a bad pass. It doesn't mean he's a bad passer. Chipchura doesn't have the talent to make low % plays like a Lafleur did, he had the ability to play high risk high reward. The guy's just forcing things a bit.
I agree McPhee. There's nothing wrong with his character and he's a much better player than he's showing right now. He just needs a roster spot and a pat on the back. I believe Chips will be a big part of this teams success in the future.

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01-17-2009, 03:32 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Stan View Post
I agree McPhee. There's nothing wrong with his character and he's a much better player than he's showing right now. He just needs a roster spot and a pat on the back. I believe Chips will be a big part of this teams success in the future.
I'll agree, and feel better, when I see that strong step when he gets the puck in his zone.

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01-18-2009, 03:06 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Stan View Post
I agree McPhee. There's nothing wrong with his character and he's a much better player than he's showing right now. He just needs a roster spot and a pat on the back. I believe Chips will be a big part of this teams success in the future.
Even with a pat on the back, Chips has to start getting into high gear. Players like Ryan White may change a few things in 2 seasons from now.

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01-18-2009, 03:23 PM
  #70
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I think last night was a perfect demonstration of the challenges faced by Chipchura and D'Agostini vs. someone like Stewart.

People love guys like Stewart and, back in the day, Lapierre when they could up, because there is a tangible impact.

Chipchura is theoretically slotted a level above guys like Stewart and I think just like a scorer (D'Ago) needs to play with scorers, Chipchura needs to play with defensive forwards.

If they want both those guys to stick, I'd put D'Agostini back with scorers (in place of Pacioretty, I like the kid, but he could simmer a bit longer) and Chipchura with Kostopolous and someone else (Begin?) as a shutdown line.

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01-18-2009, 05:24 PM
  #71
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A groin injury not 100% healed may explain his play as others said..
If so, it means that I hope that the Habs management knows this.....and if they do, an injured Chipchura is better than any other option we have in Hamilton? Even if Bégin plays center and you could replace Chipchura by a winger? An injured Chipchura is a better option than a Lehoux or a Glumac? Don't think so.

I am overreacting but at this point, I'm beginning to not see the utility of a guy like him in the lineup. I'm not saying we should do it....now....but we should start looking at a Locke-Belle trade, type of trade of similar guys who are borderline AHL-NHL'er and can't make for various reasons....Let's aim for Brian Boyle....Maybe we could turn him into a Blake Wheeler Part 2....Any guy who can make Phaneuf look like a school boy could be on my team....



Or Grant Lewis from the same draft year, or Dane Byers, Sami Lepisto, Nick Johnson (ex-teamate of JT Wyman in Dartmouth...) or a couple of other guys like that who might need a change of scenery...

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01-18-2009, 05:27 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogFever View Post
I only wanted to state that people are more patient with Latendresse because he's from Quebec. They're a year apart, big and slow skaters with a lot of time to get better. We shouldn't give up on neither player. Including Hamilton and Montreal:
GP G A Pts +/-
Chipchura 181 27 58 75 +9
Latendresse 189 40 33 73 -19

Chipchura captained a WJC Championship & won a Calder Cup. And they'll probably need him next year when Lang and/or Koivu aren't signed. Especially if we get Vinny's
$10 million contract.
What kind of skewed stats is that. (Including Hamilton and Montreal...huh??) Whatever makes you sleep at night, but maybe, just maybe people are more patient with Latendresse because clearly these are two players with totally different roles and strength/upside and Latendresse has shown A LOT MORE in the NHL/preseason/camp than Chipchura ever did.

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Old
01-18-2009, 06:53 PM
  #73
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In the end, as great some thing he is, as bad some others think he is, he needs to crack the lineup at one point or get a chance somewhere else. It will be 5 years that he was picked this coming summer and you also need to think what could be good for the player. And for an organization, you need to know what could be more valuable for you....keeping him and using him, or using him in a trade while it's not too late and while he still has "some" value.

Again, I'm not saying I'm on either camp right now....but slowly and surely going to the trade camp.

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01-18-2009, 07:12 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BulldogFever View Post
I only wanted to state that people are more patient with Latendresse because he's from Quebec. They're a year apart, big and slow skaters with a lot of time to get better. We shouldn't give up on neither player. Including Hamilton and Montreal:
GP G A Pts +/-
Chipchura 181 27 58 75 +9
Latendresse 189 40 33 73 -19

Chipchura captained a WJC Championship & won a Calder Cup. And they'll probably need him next year when Lang and/or Koivu aren't signed. Especially if we get Vinny's
$10 million contract.
W T F ?

What the hell is this kind a stat?

AHL and NHL combine :

Martin St-Pierre 294 games 88 goals 225 passes 313 points
Andrei Kostitsyn 332 games 96 goals 121 passes 217 points

Judging from your analysis, Martin St-Pierre would be a star in MTL, of course...

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01-18-2009, 07:32 PM
  #75
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This comes with not having seen very much of Chipchura in gameplay, and more based on what i've heard on these boards so take it for what it's worth.

My brother and I were talking about Chipchura's strengths/weaknesses and how they seem to be an unfortunate mix: Not particularly fast, but good puck control., Good defensively, but terrible on faceoffs. Decent shot, but not great passer.

Other than his speed, wouldn't he make a better defensive winger than center? At least he's good on the boards, from what i've seen of him when he does get shots they look pretty good. He has decent hands and i've seen him deke a few times while controlling the puck.

I know we all want the big defensive shutdown center, but like a few people have mentioned, he's not improving on things he needs for that role, the biggest one being faceoffs.

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