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Survey: Fans Support Owners

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08-04-2004, 08:44 AM
  #1
eddy
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Survey: Fans Support Owners

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...76&hubName=nhl</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT>

Survey finds fans support owner lockout
TSN.ca Staff
8/4/2004

As NHL owners and players gather in Toronto for the latest round of collective bargaining talks, a new poll finds the majority of Canadian hockey fans would support a lockout if it meant creating a financially level playing field.

In a poll conducted by Decima Research Inc. last month, 83 percent of those surveyed said they would stand by the NHL even if a lockout wiped out more than half a season as long as it results in a reduction of player salaries and a better deal for smaller clubs.

As well, 56 percent of fans believe the players association needs to be the one to compromise when it comes to a new deal while only 14 percent believe both sides need to compromise in the dispute.

The survey of 928 Canadians also found that most fans believe most NHL teams are in financial trouble.

During the last contract talks two weeks ago in New York, the league submitted several proposals outlining its need for "cost certainty". The NHLPA rejected them, claiming that each one "begins and ends with a salary cap" - something the union has been unwilling to negotiate.

The collective bargaining agreement between the NHL and the NHLPA is set to expire on September 15.


Last edited by eddy: 08-04-2004 at 08:47 AM.
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08-04-2004, 10:45 AM
  #2
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Quote:
a new poll finds the majority of Canadian hockey fans would support a lockout
But the question still remains, will the American fans support it and stand by the NHL even if half a season is missed?? I doubt it myself.
Quote:
As well, 56 percent of fans believe the players association needs to be the one to compromise when it comes to a new deal while only 14 percent believe both sides need to compromise in the dispute.
Unfortunately though, who stands more to lose if they compromise? There's a growing number of players already preparing to play overseas, there's the option of the WHA for some of the players that want to stay in N.A. and there seems to be a very united front that all the players are presenting. If a deal is going to get done in any kind of timely manner, its the owners giving in mostly with the players giving some minor concessions. I would expect a deal similar to what the players proposed last October...luxury tax, revenue sharing, one-time 5% salary cut, & restructuring of the entry level system.

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08-04-2004, 11:07 AM
  #3
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the fans are idiots, then. This is classic foolishness on behalf of a mis-informed public. I'd love to see how much empathy the owners get if the public were fully aware of the character and 'integrity' of guys like Bill Wirtz, Tom Hicks and the rest of the ******** that manipulate public tax policies/legislation to hinder their competition in an erstwhile 'free market' economy. The owners are criminals in most cases. The players bleed for their money, the owners simply pay lawyers to manipulate the political process to their best interest, regardless of public concern of benefit.

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08-04-2004, 11:13 AM
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You have to remember that most Canadians are fans of Canadian teams who are in need of financial restraints in order to remain competitive. Except for, of course, Toronto.

That's why this poll is showing support for the owners.

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08-04-2004, 11:17 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeisevil
You have to remember that most Canadians are fans of Canadian teams who are in need of financial restraints in order to remain competitive. Except for, of course, Toronto.

That's why this poll is showing support for the owners.
We have a winner.

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08-04-2004, 11:32 AM
  #6
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Not to mention the fact that most hockey fans aren't millionaires, so the players lack a lot of credibility in fans' eyes. Unless of course you listen to McCabe's theory that the players are just trying to make a decent living

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08-04-2004, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by nikeisevil
You have to remember that most Canadians are fans of Canadian teams who are in need of financial restraints in order to remain competitive.
More like, have been brainwashed to believe they need that.

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08-04-2004, 11:52 AM
  #8
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I'd be willing to bet american fan support for ownership is even higher.

I don't have a bit of faith in Bettman or bags of ****** like Wirtz, Hicks, Dolan, et al...
YET I feel they are the lesser of two evils when it comes to this dispute. I can't back the NHLPA because they are intractable and contrarian on most issues. The NHL tries to apply a piddling solution like shrinking goalie pads two FREAKING inches Goodnow files a grievance. The NHL tries to institiute visors Goodnow stands in the way. Goodnow files grievances over deserved suspensions and fines.

The Harlan County USA rhetoric from players making 4 million (Read McCabe) is a turn off, because today having union representation itself is a luxary absent alot of Americans.

Goodnow's scare tactics of saying there will be NFL style contracts is is alarmist and overreaching.

The 5% of their salaries they were willing to cut wasn't even a decent tip.

And I'm paying too much for tickets.

If the NHLPA showed concern for something besides garuanteed money I might back them. For instance they could make compitition and safety issues part of the Union's platform. They could make the scoring drought an issue. They could try and get officiating reformed. Instead it's just a worthington's law showdown over cash.

WOuld it be that hard to turn the fanbase agianst Gary Bettman?

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Old
08-04-2004, 12:01 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikeisevil
You have to remember that most Canadians are fans of Canadian teams who are in need of financial restraints in order to remain competitive. Except for, of course, Toronto.

That's why this poll is showing support for the owners.
Exactly. I thought the exact same thing when I first read this story on TSN this morning.

I do have to say however that I am one Canadian fan who does not support the owners. Are the players making too much money? Yes, probably. But the owners are the oens who gave them the money. The players did not put a gun to their heads and even some people in management have admitted that (Brian Burke and Glen Sather).

Plus, this may be a stupid reason for me to not support the owners, but I personally like the events that occur as a result of not having a salary cap. What I mean by this is events such as trades and free agent signings. I personally am a fan who thinks that things such as mega-trades and huge free-agent signings add a lot of the excitement that comes with being a fan of the sport. And with a salary cap, we would not see such things occur anymore. There would be no Jagr to the Rangers trade to add some spice to a very long season. There would be no excitement regarding the trade deadline as no teams would have the financial flexibility to add anyone. And just like this offseason, which has been the most dull offseason in memory, nothing would ever happen in terms of free agency. These are the things that generate a lot of excitement and interest for me and people like me, who are people who are simply fans of the game and not necessarily fans of any individual team. Without things such as the Jagr trade or the Kariya/Selanne signing of last year, hockey quite honestly becomes less exciting and less interesting, at least for me.

And as evidenced by the Jagr trade and Kariya/Selanne signing, as well as the fact that the Tampa Bay Lightning won the Stanley Cup this year, throwing money around does not always guarantee success.

I think that there should be a luxury tax that penalizes the high-spending teams, but does not make it impossible for them to spend. If an owner wants to throw away his money, and quite possibly see his team go to bust like the Rangers, let him. If a team wants to trade away their future by trading away all of their prospects/draft picks in order to load up on veteran help to help in the present, let him. There are always consequences, either present or future, to being a "win-at-all-costs" type of owner, and if owners want to risk these consequences, then they should be allowed to without having a salary cap restrict them.

But anyways, these are all just my personal opinions and where I stand on the whole salary cap issue that the NHL is proposing to the NHLPA.

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08-04-2004, 12:18 PM
  #10
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if the players are forced to 'cap' their earnings artificially (which is what a salary cap would do) then the owners should be forced to cap their profits as well, shouldn't they? If the teams stadiums are financed on the backs of the taxpayers then why shouldn't the taxpayers, who make it possible for the owners to have a nice place to house their team, have a say in the limit to which the owners can profit off a business that is funded at taxpayer expense?

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08-04-2004, 01:51 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaraholic
if the players are forced to 'cap' their earnings artificially (which is what a salary cap would do) then the owners should be forced to cap their profits as well, shouldn't they? If the teams stadiums are financed on the backs of the taxpayers then why shouldn't the taxpayers, who make it possible for the owners to have a nice place to house their team, have a say in the limit to which the owners can profit off a business that is funded at taxpayer expense?
Yup. Take the NFL's system as an example. The salary cap, as well as the team minimum salary, is based on revenue. If the league makes money, the cap goes up next season. If the league loses money, the cap goes down and players have to be cut. The system the NFL uses is a formula that takes into account ticket sales, merchandise sales, and TV contracts league wide. The cap keeps teams in big markets from doing the kinds of things that the Rangers have been doing over the last several years. The team minimum salary guarantees that each team will spend at least a certain amount on team salaries. If a team signs fewer dollars in contracts, the league forces the them to pay the difference to the players on the roster.

The players don't necessarily want this because, for one, there are no guaranteed contracts. If the league sees a drop in revenue, players will get cut. Also, the top players don't really care if franchises have to fold and hundreds of borderline players lose jobs, as long as they get to keep their sugar daddies and huge salaries.

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08-04-2004, 02:27 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hasbro
I'd be willing to bet american fan support for ownership is even higher.

And I'm paying too much for tickets.

If the NHLPA showed concern for something besides garuanteed money I might back them. For instance they could make compitition and safety issues part of the Union's platform. They could make the scoring drought an issue.
Initially, the american fan support may be higher for the owners but as soon as games begin to be lost, the support will quickly dimish. Most American sports fans have other alternatives they can support like basketball & football if there is a long lockout. Canada lives, eats & breathes hockey...they're more interested in preserving the game for the future. A long lockout will have reprocussions for several American based teams that are in financial difficulties.

Regardless, you're paying too much for tickets isn't a direct reflection of the players. If its anything, its a reflection on the owners who generally set the ticket prices. You can't solely blame rising ticket prices on the players alone.

Safety issues is probably the only thing that would concern the players union. THe rest of those (competition, scoring drought, etc) are league issues that don't have anything to do with what the players should be concerned about.

I think people tend to forget the last CBA and when the players were on strike. Why were they on strike? Because the owners were making too much profit. Now its just the exact opposite. Even still, most owners with newer (publicly funded) arenas seem to have a sweeter deal than before. They end up making plenty of money by just running the arenas and often recoup any losses that way. This is one of the major points that the NHLPA cites when the league complains they're losing money. That report that the NHL had drawn up doesn't include the money that the owners receive from running the arena.

What needs to happen is some middle ground but with these 2 groups on opposite sides, I just don't see much that could get them into the middle.

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Old
08-04-2004, 03:28 PM
  #13
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That's needless to say(the title, I mean), but I think the fans' stance on the issue is short-sighted. The owners have as much responsibility for the players' salaries as overweight people who are that was because of their own actions have for the result of their actions.

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08-04-2004, 07:20 PM
  #14
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They polled all of 928 people.

That must have taken them an entire mourning.....

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08-05-2004, 01:07 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomhower
They polled all of 928 people.

That must have taken them an entire mourning.....
Population samples of 900 people are actually incredibly common. They're considered fairly accurate. Sad but true.

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Old
08-05-2004, 04:39 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcs_1983_shannonman
I personally am a fan who thinks that things such as mega-trades and huge free-agent signings add a lot of the excitement that comes with being a fan of the sport.
Funny. I'm a fan who thinks tradition, loyalty, stability are things that used to bring way more excitement than trades ever have.

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08-05-2004, 10:19 AM
  #17
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I have this feeling we are going to see a scenario much like baseballs strike. Where the Americans come back to their national pasttime but the Canadians stay away in droves after the strike is over..then the reverse happens for hockey and the American fans stay away after the strike is over and the Canadians come back.

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