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Old
01-19-2009, 04:04 PM
  #76
ORYX
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When Briere is healthy and ready to return (Is he due in the line-up next game, or is he still with the Phantoms?) what will the lines look like? Will Briere play the wing on one of the top two lines, will he center the top line pushing richards and carter down, or will he center the third line?

I will admit, with Briere in the line-up i would hesitate to call the Detroit red wings the most potent offense, there is an aweful lot of fire power up front when he returns, but where will he play, and who gets the bump when he returns.

Any thoughts on line combo's?

EDIT: Just say the update, no need to answer any of the above!

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01-19-2009, 04:37 PM
  #77
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You would trade Briere for Fischer? ummmm.

6.3million$ for a point per game player or 4.5million for a "defensive" specialist (or at least thats what Ottawa advertises him as because he can't score worth a ****) .... do I need to elaborate more?

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01-19-2009, 05:36 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Viller View Post
You would trade Briere for Fischer? ummmm.

6.3million$ for a point per game player or 4.5million for a "defensive" specialist (or at least thats what Ottawa advertises him as because he can't score worth a ****) .... do I need to elaborate more?
Don't bother, obviously the only mistake made was not knowing Briere has a NMC.

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01-19-2009, 05:58 PM
  #79
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Regarding everyone wanting to trade Briere, it's not about him being good enough or even whether or not he's worth his 6+ mil contract. It's not about whether we're a better team with him or if we are just fine without him. The only thing that matters is that we really can't expect to pay 17+ mil for 3 centers, nearly 1/3rd ofthe total cap down the middle for 3 guys. Unless the cap were to continue to grow by 5+ mil a year I doubt we can expect to hold on to all three. The American market is bad, just realyy really bad right now and initial reports are that there will be a zero growth in the cap for next season. We can't keep all 3. I'd love to keep them all but it's not realistic. It comes down to whom do you want to keep. Briere is the best offensively but he's also a liability in his own zone. If we have to say goodbye to one of the three, most people around here see Briere as holding the short stick.

For now, Briere isn't going anywhere. He won't waive his NMC in the middle of the season to leave a team who was in the ECF last season and battling for top spot in the division right now unless it might be to a team like the Wings, however it's unlikely that a team like that would be in the market for Briere. The Flyers will find other money to move before Briere is traded in the middle of this season. I also highly doubt they move Jones during the season.

In the off-season the Flyers may try to move Briere. If he starts to feel like the odd man out and like he's really not wanted here BY MANAGEMENT (fans on a board don't matter in the least) then he'd probably be willing to be dealt to a team that actually wants him. Of course he gets a lot of say as to where he goes and I would also question that our management would do anything to make Danny feel unwanted. I think that if the American market place continues to slide through June then Homer might believe that a cap decline will be in order for the 10/11 season and that we'll be FORCED to move some salary and then he might look to move Briere. However, if the American market levels off or starts to increase but the end of June then I think Homer may just hold on to Danny, figure on a level cap for 09/10 and back to an increase in 10/11. If we see an increase in 10/11 then we may be fine with all 3.

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Old
01-19-2009, 06:06 PM
  #80
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^ As long as we dont lose Carter, I'll be okay with those three for the next however many years.

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Old
01-19-2009, 06:08 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Regarding everyone wanting to trade Briere, it's not about him being good enough or even whether or not he's worth his 6+ mil contract. It's not about whether we're a better team with him or if we are just fine without him. The only thing that matters is that we really can't expect to pay 17+ mil for 3 centers, nearly 1/3rd ofthe total cap down the middle for 3 guys. Unless the cap were to continue to grow by 5+ mil a year I doubt we can expect to hold on to all three. The American market is bad, just realyy really bad right now and initial reports are that there will be a zero growth in the cap for next season. We can't keep all 3. I'd love to keep them all but it's not realistic. It comes down to whom do you want to keep. Briere is the best offensively but he's also a liability in his own zone. If we have to say goodbye to one of the three, most people around here see Briere as holding the short stick.

For now, Briere isn't going anywhere. He won't waive his NMC in the middle of the season to leave a team who was in the ECF last season and battling for top spot in the division right now unless it might be to a team like the Wings, however it's unlikely that a team like that would be in the market for Briere. The Flyers will find other money to move before Briere is traded in the middle of this season. I also highly doubt they move Jones during the season.

In the off-season the Flyers may try to move Briere. If he starts to feel like the odd man out and like he's really not wanted here BY MANAGEMENT (fans on a board don't matter in the least) then he'd probably be willing to be dealt to a team that actually wants him. Of course he gets a lot of say as to where he goes and I would also question that our management would do anything to make Danny feel unwanted. I think that if the American market place continues to slide through June then Homer might believe that a cap decline will be in order for the 10/11 season and that we'll be FORCED to move some salary and then he might look to move Briere. However, if the American market levels off or starts to increase but the end of June then I think Homer may just hold on to Danny, figure on a level cap for 09/10 and back to an increase in 10/11. If we see an increase in 10/11 then we may be fine with all 3.
I cant recall where i initially heard it, but i had heard earlier in the season that we may also face a decline in upwards of 2 million. Is that a possibility also, or is there a rule in the CBA against that?

I have to agree that 17 millionamong three centers is a hefty price to pay, sure the depth is great, but when it comes down to it, im sure with the young talent we have, we may be able to expect respectable numbers from our young talent that may offset the loss of a PPG player in Briere.

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Old
01-19-2009, 06:10 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by ForsbergIsOdin View Post
^ As long as we dont lose Carter, I'll be okay with those three for the next however many years.
I think that's the general concensus. However, what if we have Briere and Richards under contract, Briere is unwilling to waive his NMC, and someone like JVR comes in and starts putting a crunch on the cap, Carter may become a cap casualty ala Umberger once his current contract is up. That's the worst case cinario but it's a definite possibility looming on the horizon.

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01-19-2009, 06:15 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
I cant recall where i initially heard it, but i had heard earlier in the season that we may also face a decline in upwards of 2 million. Is that a possibility also, or is there a rule in the CBA against that?

I have to agree that 17 millionamong three centers is a hefty price to pay, sure the depth is great, but when it comes down to it, im sure with the young talent we have, we may be able to expect respectable numbers from our young talent that may offset the loss of a PPG player in Briere.

You are correct that initial reports are of a decrease in revenues this year over last year. However, there is a provision in the CBA that would hold the cap in place for next season. If there is a decline again next year then the cap limit WOULD actually decrese. Right now, the minimal cap for next year is still 56.7 mil (although I think that if there were a SIGNIFICANT revenue decline in 1 year then there may be a cap decrease the following year, however the initial reports are not for that significant of a drop).

Also, if we do carry that much of the cap in our 3 centers we will start to see a significant loss of supporting players on the outsides.

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Old
01-19-2009, 06:15 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I think that's the general concensus. However, what if we have Briere and Richards under contract, Briere is unwilling to waive his NMC, and someone like JVR comes in and starts putting a crunch on the cap, Carter may become a cap casualty ala Umberger once his current contract is up. That's the worst case cinario but it's a definite possibility looming on the horizon.
I'd be calling for Homer's job if he let Carter slip!! I see your point and understand it, however i think Homer would be inclined to move Briere back to the wing at that point and ship off a winger or two in order to accomodate the cap hit.

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01-19-2009, 06:21 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
I'd be calling for Homer's job if he let Carter slip!! I see your point and understand it, however i think Homer would be inclined to move Briere back to the wing at that point and ship off a winger or two in order to accomodate the cap hit.
I too would call for Homers head if they let Carter go.

He is 23, beginning to dominate and I'm sure he would stay on the team as long as we'd have him. Point is, if we're making these three work right now, and the most Carter's salary would increase would maybe be 1.5, Which id glady pay for him.

This is all barring that the cap doesnt shrink.

That would SUCK.

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Old
01-19-2009, 06:22 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Regarding everyone wanting to trade Briere, it's not about him being good enough or even whether or not he's worth his 6+ mil contract. It's not about whether we're a better team with him or if we are just fine without him. The only thing that matters is that we really can't expect to pay 17+ mil for 3 centers, nearly 1/3rd ofthe total cap down the middle for 3 guys. Unless the cap were to continue to grow by 5+ mil a year I doubt we can expect to hold on to all three. The American market is bad, just realyy really bad right now and initial reports are that there will be a zero growth in the cap for next season. We can't keep all 3. I'd love to keep them all but it's not realistic. It comes down to whom do you want to keep. Briere is the best offensively but he's also a liability in his own zone. If we have to say goodbye to one of the three, most people around here see Briere as holding the short stick.

For now, Briere isn't going anywhere. He won't waive his NMC in the middle of the season to leave a team who was in the ECF last season and battling for top spot in the division right now unless it might be to a team like the Wings, however it's unlikely that a team like that would be in the market for Briere. The Flyers will find other money to move before Briere is traded in the middle of this season. I also highly doubt they move Jones during the season.

In the off-season the Flyers may try to move Briere. If he starts to feel like the odd man out and like he's really not wanted here BY MANAGEMENT (fans on a board don't matter in the least) then he'd probably be willing to be dealt to a team that actually wants him. Of course he gets a lot of say as to where he goes and I would also question that our management would do anything to make Danny feel unwanted. I think that if the American market place continues to slide through June then Homer might believe that a cap decline will be in order for the 10/11 season and that we'll be FORCED to move some salary and then he might look to move Briere. However, if the American market levels off or starts to increase but the end of June then I think Homer may just hold on to Danny, figure on a level cap for 09/10 and back to an increase in 10/11. If we see an increase in 10/11 then we may be fine with all 3.
phlocky.... this time I just couldnt do it. Your wall of text was just too much for me

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01-19-2009, 06:28 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORYX View Post
I'd be calling for Homer's job if he let Carter slip!! I see your point and understand it, however i think Homer would be inclined to move Briere back to the wing at that point and ship off a winger or two in order to accomodate the cap hit.
Yeah but here's what we are looking at for the next 3 seasons:

Briere - 6.5 mil, Richards - 5.75 mil, Gags - 5.25 mil, Carter - 5.0 mil, Hartnell - 4.2 mil, Lupul - 4.25 mil, and JVR at about 3 mil.

That's nearly 35 mil for just half of our forwards and we haven't even gotten to our defense and goalies. At least one will have to go and possibly 2 if there is a decline in the cap. My first choice is Lupul but that's just me. Some difficult choices have to be made and everyone has their opinion on whom it should be. It's not a dire emergency right now but it will most likely become one very soon. This off-season will be interesting.

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01-19-2009, 06:29 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
phlocky.... this time I just couldnt do it. Your wall of text was just too much for me
Yeah I know, I'm long winded

However, on the birght side my last post was nice and short. I guess there's a first time for everything.

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01-19-2009, 06:42 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Yeah but here's what we are looking at for the next 3 seasons:

Briere - 6.5 mil, Richards - 5.75 mil, Gags - 5.25 mil, Carter - 5.0 mil, Hartnell - 4.2 mil, Lupul - 4.25 mil, and JVR at about 3 mil.

That's nearly 35 mil for just half of our forwards and we haven't even gotten to our defense and goalies. At least one will have to go and possibly 2 if there is a decline in the cap. My first choice is Lupul but that's just me. Some difficult choices have to be made and everyone has their opinion on whom it should be. It's not a dire emergency right now but it will most likely become one very soon. This off-season will be interesting.

Would JVR not be on an entry level contract?

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01-19-2009, 06:46 PM
  #90
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Would JVR not be on an entry level contract?
Yes but with the built in incentives with a full season on the Flyers he'll be at about 3.0-3.2 or so. Patrick Kane is costing the Hawks 3.75 mil this season and he's still on his entry level contract. Stamkos is at 3.75mil with Tampa this year. JVR won't be cheap.

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01-19-2009, 06:59 PM
  #91
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And what a waste of 3.75M stamkos is this season. I just can't find justice in giving a first year player such high incentives. I could handle JVR making 3 in the 3rd year of his entry level contract but no player in his first NHL season should be making more then the Entry level Max of what is it like $890 000.00

How is that amount of money, compared to what they make now (Peanuts) not an incentive to produce? That is more money then most HOUSEHOLDS make in 15-20 years.

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01-19-2009, 07:19 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Yes but with the built in incentives with a full season on the Flyers he'll be at about 3.0-3.2 or so. Patrick Kane is costing the Hawks 3.75 mil this season and he's still on his entry level contract. Stamkos is at 3.75mil with Tampa this year. JVR won't be cheap.
that would almost be a wash with knuble's contract if they don't resign him...what are the odds JVR spends next year in college or AHL?

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01-19-2009, 07:31 PM
  #93
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that would almost be a wash with knuble's contract if they don't resign him...what are the odds JVR spends next year in college or AHL?
Highly likely.

I'm guessing College. If not, AHL at best.

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01-19-2009, 07:33 PM
  #94
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I'm inclined to believe he'll spend half the year with the Phantoms and half the year with the Flyers.

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01-19-2009, 09:41 PM
  #95
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I'm inclined to believe he'll spend half the year with the Phantoms and half the year with the Flyers.
Unless we see a big injury, his salary will likely prohibit bringing him up midseason. I wouldn't be shocked at all if he spent the entire season in the AHL.

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01-19-2009, 11:04 PM
  #96
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I'm inclined to believe he'll spend half the year with the Phantoms and half the year with the Flyers.
Agreed. I know alot of people here see him coming right into the big league after college. I doubt that unless he comes out of no where at camp and shows he deserves it over other players such as Nodl and maybe even Ross

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01-20-2009, 08:52 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Yes but with the built in incentives with a full season on the Flyers he'll be at about 3.0-3.2 or so. Patrick Kane is costing the Hawks 3.75 mil this season and he's still on his entry level contract. Stamkos is at 3.75mil with Tampa this year. JVR won't be cheap.

JvR won't be signing when the CBA was up to be reopened, so his bonuses won't be counted automatically, like Stamkos' were. NHLPA is very unlikely to open the CBA, so the Bonus cushions will be back in place for 2009-10.

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01-20-2009, 08:53 AM
  #98
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Agreed. I know alot of people here see him coming right into the big league after college. I doubt that unless he comes out of no where at camp and shows he deserves it over other players such as Nodl and maybe even Ross
JvR is a much better prospect than Nodl or Ross. Several scouting services have him listed as a top 5 guy not in the NHL. I don't think he'll be ready, either, but it's not impossible that he'll be a Flyer next season.

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01-20-2009, 10:51 AM
  #99
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JvR is a much better prospect than Nodl or Ross. Several scouting services have him listed as a top 5 guy not in the NHL. I don't think he'll be ready, either, but it's not impossible that he'll be a Flyer next season.
He can be a better prospect... great. But if he doesnt play as well in camp compared to the other guys, I dont want him playing just because he's supposed to be amazing. If guys like Ross or Nodl outplay him during camp (anything is possible) I dont want to just take JVR when he can have a chance to play in the AHL and adjust to the level

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