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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
01-20-2009, 11:53 AM
  #76
Ragamuffin Gunner
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
One that desperately needs a top-6 center when the other options are Spezza, Gomez, and Richards?

(Although in that scenario one could argue a good case for Spezza, admittedly...)
Ya, there are only a few guys who have equally bad contracts, and I have a feeling they're gonna be staying with their teams till the bitter end.

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01-20-2009, 11:54 AM
  #77
Peter Griffin
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One thing to keep in mind regarding Briere is his NMC. There is no reason to believe he'd be willing to waive it.

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Old
01-20-2009, 11:59 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
One thing to keep in mind regarding Briere is his NMC. There is no reason to believe he'd be willing to waive it.
Is there a reason to believe he wouldn't?

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01-20-2009, 12:01 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
Is there a reason to believe he wouldn't?
I assume he's comfortable in Philly, considering you know, he signed there. Also doesn't hurt that the Flyers are a successful team. Seriously, how often do players waive their NTC when they're playing on a playoff bound team?

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01-20-2009, 12:05 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
I assume he's comfortable in Philly, considering you know, he signed there. Also doesn't hurt that the Flyers are a successful team. Seriously, how often do players waive their NTC when they're playing on a playoff bound team?
I don't know, maybe he's not the kind of guy who's happy playing 5th wheel which is what he is right now in terms of skaters on the team. It's quite possible that he has the drive to be THE GUY. Don't know if that's true at all but it's possible.

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01-20-2009, 12:12 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
I don't know, maybe he's not the kind of guy who's happy playing 5th wheel which is what he is right now in terms of skaters on the team. It's quite possible that he has the drive to be THE GUY. Don't know if that's true at all but it's possible.
Didn't he turn down a larger offer from the Canadiens in the off-season? Being a francophone player and with Montreal not having any key, young forwards Briere would've definitely been "the guy" in Montreal.

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01-20-2009, 12:21 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Didn't he turn down a larger offer from the Canadiens in the off-season? Being a francophone player and with Montreal not having any key, young forwards Briere would've definitely been "the guy" in Montreal.
I think there was an extra year and the NMC in the Philly offer which he said was the deciding factor I believe (he may not have said that himself, it may have just been media conjecture)

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Old
01-20-2009, 12:25 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
...which immediately lowers the value coming back in the trade, and potentially hijacks it. Seriously, how many people are going to want to trade half their core and most of their up-and-comers for a single player PLUS salary dumps? The closest we've ever gotten in the post-Original Six era was the Lindros trade, and they didn't have a salary cap (or a CBA preventing cash transfers) to worry about - AND it still didn't quite work out because the Flyers essentially gave away a future Cup dynasty in the process. People know better than this now.



...oh, please.

You are apparently operating under the fallacy of Every Player Has A Single Set Value. This is wrong because a player's value is prorated relative to his current worth to his team. Classic example: Jordan Staal keeps coming up in bad trades because of the Penguins depth at center, not because of some inherently lower value.

Rick Nash has the additional value-modifying attributes of being 1) a regular Jackets all-star representative (and thus popular), 2) a former 1st overall pick (more populaity), 3) our leading scorer, year-to-year AND (as of the last game) all-time, 4) the team captain, 5) an established member of our team core of forwards, and 6) (partly due to #1 and #2) being the face of the franchise. Therefore to pick him up would require much more than folks might think he is worth independent of those variables, generally making it an unreasonable price for most folks out there.


...why am I having to explain this to you?


(Bonus Point! Crosby is not much past 20. Lidstrom is nearly 40 and expected to retire in a few short years (this is partly why they can afford a large contract for Zetterberg; he's expected to be the next captain). Why do you put them in the same category, again? )
I didn't put Crosby and Lidstrom in the same category, you did. I was just using your examples that you had in myth #2 where you said: "Well...
Ray Schero has not at any point stated that Sidney Crosby is not on the trading block.
Doug Wilson has not at any point stated that Joe Thornton is not on the trading block.
Ken Holland has not at any point stated that Pavel Datsyuk or Nik Lidstrom are not on the trading block..".

Also, I never said the Flyers would trade Richards, Coburn, JVR and Gagne for Crosby. I simply said that (assuming the Pens matched us salary to get under the cap for some of the sticklers out there) that if the Flyers did offer that for Crosby, they'd be stupid not accept it. I'm running under the premise, that EVERY player is tradeable. If Wayne Gretzky can get traded, Rick Nash certainly can regardless of if he's the face of the franchise, perennial all-star, or captain.

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Old
01-20-2009, 01:02 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
I didn't put Crosby and Lidstrom in the same category, you did. I was just using your examples that you had in myth #2 where you said: "Well...
Ray Schero has not at any point stated that Sidney Crosby is not on the trading block.
Doug Wilson has not at any point stated that Joe Thornton is not on the trading block.
Ken Holland has not at any point stated that Pavel Datsyuk or Nik Lidstrom are not on the trading block..".
Oh, so you did read it. But my "category" there was based on each players' relative value to their team. So why were you objecting again?

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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Also, I never said the Flyers would trade Richards, Coburn, JVR and Gagne for Crosby. I simply said that (assuming the Pens matched us salary to get under the cap for some of the sticklers out there) that if the Flyers did offer that for Crosby, they'd be stupid not accept it.
Pittsburgh has its whole marketing strategy based around Crosby and Malkin; heck, last I checked Crosby's still living with Super Mario. Unless that trade won them a Cup or three tomorrow, it'd probably get their front office lynched by casual fans. They'd get a lot of return (much more than fair value), but business-wise it's just not worth it unless they're in really dire straits and NEED to give up a superstar. (Which, last I checked, they're not. At least, not anymore. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
I'm running under the premise, that EVERY player is tradeable. If Wayne Gretzky can get traded, Rick Nash certainly can regardless of if he's the face of the franchise, perennial all-star, or captain.


Wayne's Law. You lose.

And just for the record...
Steve Yzerman was never traded.
Mario Lemieux was never traded.
Stan Mikita was never traded.
Maurice and Henri Richard were never traded.
Bobby Orr was never actually traded - and if not for a crooked agent, he never would have signed that Chicago contract, and he never cashed one of their paychecks anyways.

Go find yourself a new cliche.

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Old
01-20-2009, 02:32 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
One that desperately needs a top-6 center when the other options are Spezza, Gomez, and Richards?

(Although in that scenario one could argue a good case for Spezza, admittedly...)
Because Henrik Sedin and Mats Sundin are clearly not top six centres... ?

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Old
01-20-2009, 02:59 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Carcillo View Post
Because Henrik Sedin and Mats Sundin are clearly not top six centres... ?
Your post is evidently made under the following misapprehensions:

1) that I was talking exclusively about the current market (which, admitedly, would be a reasonable - if incorrect - interpretation; mea culpa), and
2) that I give a damn about Vancouver when I'm being silly.

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Old
01-20-2009, 03:08 PM
  #87
Mike Richards 18
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i think a three way is prolly the only way Briere can be moved if he waives the NMC.
With philly mainly being happy with the salary being moved. philly would rather keep briere then get worthless players of equal salary to move him.

Philly gets...or is interested in
Salary Space, Third Line Center (Vermette Type) Solid Goalie (Schneider or Better)
Picks, UFA Salary dumps that philly will barry in AHL for the rest of the year.

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Old
01-20-2009, 04:10 PM
  #88
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re

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Richards 18 View Post
i think a three way is prolly the only way Briere can be moved if he waives the NMC.
With philly mainly being happy with the salary being moved. philly would rather keep briere then get worthless players of equal salary to move him.

Philly gets...or is interested in
Salary Space, Third Line Center (Vermette Type) Solid Goalie (Schneider or Better)
Picks, UFA Salary dumps that philly will barry in AHL for the rest of the year.
So what are you saying? The trades good? The only salary you take back is Pyatt who is like 1.2mil or something and UFA at the end of the season.

The rest are in juniors or the AHL.

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Old
01-20-2009, 04:36 PM
  #89
Mike Richards 18
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what i am saying is that there are maybe 5 teams that could afford the salary prolly less with a self imposed cap. Philly would be better to keep him then trade him for a lesser player or players. for philly to move him we will not get much in return. the most valuable part of a return to philly will more then likely be salary space or pieces i had already stated, but those are just my thoughts and ideas.

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Old
01-20-2009, 06:05 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
Hartnell and Knuble are not defensive stalwarts. They're average, pretty decent on the PK, but very average 5 on 5. There are a handful of players on this team that would play with Briere if the goal was to help him defensively.
Could you name them please? Who exactly ARE the flyers best defensive forwards not named Richards and Gagne. That is the whole issue. The flyers don't have that element in their game and adding Briere into the lineup goes AWAY from solving that issue, and also creates more.

The whole: he isn't ready to play physically yet, is BS. The flyers have what? 1 more game before the all-star break? Holmgren needs to buy time to a. find a team to take Briere, or b. find a home for a player or two from his current roster to make room.

That was a very short sighted signing and made LARGELY to create some excitement the very summer after they came off that brutal season. Fortunately for big dollar team like the flyers, you don't have to be all that swift as a GM, they can just pay for their mistakes (literally) and move forward.

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Old
01-20-2009, 06:18 PM
  #91
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i would think briere will fetch something like penner and 2nd. if briere completely helthy penner and 1st.. he is a point per game type of player only health issues r holdin his trade value low rite now


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Old
01-20-2009, 06:24 PM
  #92
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Good player who is in his prime now...
I think we need to move him though, seeing that he's overpaid. Don't get me mistaken-- he's a PPG player, but I think we could get more with his contract.

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Old
01-20-2009, 08:08 PM
  #93
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What he like for face offs? Can he play wing?

I'd consider him for Edmonton.
But I can't see him waiving his NMC unless Philly is not making the playoffs which they seem like they will.

I'd like to have Upshall in Edmonton since he's from my hometown.

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Old
01-20-2009, 08:38 PM
  #94
Mike Richards 18
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Upshall is not going anywhere. cheap speedy gritty player. A TRUE Flyer.

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Old
01-21-2009, 02:47 AM
  #95
ELab2
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Originally Posted by hashmarks View Post
Could you name them please? Who exactly ARE the flyers best defensive forwards not named Richards and Gagne. That is the whole issue. The flyers don't have that element in their game and adding Briere into the lineup goes AWAY from solving that issue, and also creates more.
Richards, Gagne, and Carter are some of the best two way forwards in the league. He could play on a line with any of them and be significantly helped out. Don't talk if you don't know what you're talking about.

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Old
01-21-2009, 02:47 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by ncredible View Post
What he like for face offs? Can he play wing?

I'd consider him for Edmonton.
But I can't see him waiving his NMC unless Philly is not making the playoffs which they seem like they will.

I'd like to have Upshall in Edmonton since he's from my hometown.
yes he can play wing or center, I think he's more comfortable at center though

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