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Will there every be another dynasty in hockey?

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08-06-2004, 01:38 PM
  #1
Darth Milbury
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Will there every be another dynasty in hockey?

Those of you who are "experienced" fans might have been around to watch the great Hab, Islander, and Oiler dynasty teams. Those teams were able to dominate nearly every aspect of the sport, being the best offensive and defensive teams of their time, as well as being the toughest, having the best specialty teams, and the best netminding. In their prime, all of these teams were practically unbeatable.

In recent years, we've seen a few really great teams that are always in the mix at post season time (like the Wings, Devils, and now Bolts). But, a number of factors seem to have consipired to keep teams from staying dominant (free agency, $, expansion, parity in the NHL). Although I think that the Bolts could easily win the cup again, and a few other teams around the league have the potential for greatness (Calgary, Florida, Atl) I wonder if we will ever see an Islander/Hab/Oiler kind of dynasty again? Will NHL economics allow a team to stay together long enough to dominate like that?

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08-06-2004, 01:58 PM
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Considering that the Wings won 3 in 6 years, and a dynasty is atleast 3 in 4 years, its very possible.

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08-06-2004, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_man
Considering that the Wings won 3 in 6 years, and a dynasty is atleast 3 in 4 years, its very possible.

I don't know how you define dynasty, but I don't see the recent Wings clubs as being at that level. The Isles and Habs won it four years in a row. The Isles won a ridiculous number of consecutive playoff series. And, the Gretzky/Messier-led Oiler teams won it five out of seven years. In fact, in recent years, I'd say that NJ was just about as dominant as the Wings (also winning the cup 3 times since '95)

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08-06-2004, 02:27 PM
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I really dobut you'll see such a dominant teams as the Islanders, Oiler or Habs again. The league is so diluted and there is so much parity, there are 16 teams capable of winning every year. There is so much out of any one teams control that has to go right to win.

I think Detroit is the closest there will be to a dynasty for a long, long time. In 10 or 15 years, Detroit's back to back wins might look even more incredible than they do now.

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08-06-2004, 02:28 PM
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I think that money is the biggest issue. I think it's possible but the players on the team would have to put egos aside and be very committed to playing together for several years (before seeing large success). They would need to play hard for each other and their coach and also be willing to sign for less than they would otherwise get.

Hmmm... considering all that, I'd say slim chance.

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08-06-2004, 02:29 PM
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The Wings really weren't a 'dynasty' persay, since they shared the limelight with New Jersey and Colorado to a lesser extent. I don't see a dynasty forming in the next decade. Sure, a team like Tampa Bay has the chance to win it again, but at the same time, there are teams like Ottawa in the East who are even better than they are, and other young teams that are ready to break out in Atlanta and Florida in the next few seasons. So, in the East alone, you have the makings of 4 powerhouse teams. That's a lot of competition.

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08-06-2004, 02:35 PM
  #7
Joe T Choker
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Oilers, Habs and Isles, possibly Leafs are known dynasties...4 in 4 or 5 in 7, 6 from 42-51, that's what IS a Dynasty

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08-06-2004, 02:35 PM
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Also, I don't think Calgary really deserves to be mentioned in the same breath as Atlanta or Florida. They really don't have the same kind of prospect depth and quality or young talent on their roster right now. They rely on journeymen guys who had career years last season to do so well. I see them more as a Minnesota or Carolina than any long term candidate to be a powerhouse.

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08-06-2004, 03:03 PM
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Maybe I was reaching with Calgary, but they remind me a lot of the NJ Devils at their prime. They've probably got the most impressive group of young dmen in the league. If their goaltending repeats (and I think it will) and they get one or two more forwards to step forward, the sky is the limit.

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08-06-2004, 03:26 PM
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I agree the chance is slim, but not impossible.

Looking at Florida's lineup, its scary. They already have the backbone of a superteam in superstar goalie in Luongo. If Weiss, Horton, Stewart and Bouwmeester all develop, that is one possibly dynastic lineup. Power and skill with Horton, a skilled center in Weiss and a power winger in Stewart. And with Bouwmeester, is he the second coming of Pronger? What are the possibilities that all four prospects can pan out though?

Same thing with Atlanta. We already know that Heatley and Kovalchuk are the real things. But is Lehtonen the next superstar goalie? Can Valabik develop into the next Chara? Exelby, Coburn and Valabik could be a very powerful top 3 backend. What are the chances that all of them develop?

What about Columbus? They already have the power scoring forward in Nash. What about Svitov? Is the big power center? Could Zherdev be the next Russian sensation? Could Pascal Leclaire be the next Luongo?

Out of the three, I would guess that Atlanta would have the best opportunity to become a powerhouse team... but a dynasty? Proof is in the pudding.

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08-06-2004, 03:38 PM
  #11
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If any of those teams end up with Crosby next year, there is a good chance of a dynasty in about 5-10 years.

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08-06-2004, 03:40 PM
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If we're speculating on the likes of Columbus, Atlanta and Florida, we should be mentioning Washington, and Pittsburgh as well.

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08-06-2004, 03:52 PM
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Even with those great young teams, NHL economics may conspire to keep dynasties from emerging. I'm not at all certain, for example, that small market teams like Columbus, Pitt, FLA, etc, will be able to keep their cores intact, particularly if the UFA age is rolled back.

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08-06-2004, 03:56 PM
  #14
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It really depends on the new CBA, but I think with the right amount of hungry young talent, money, and luck, it is entirely possible to have another dynasty again. I don't think it will be very likely, but, I think if a team can become great during a rather weak period in the league, they could do it. Right now may be a good time, since a lot of dominant teams of the past few years aren't as strong as they used to be, and teams like Florida, Atlanta, etc. are still based on potential. I can't see it being very likely, but the possibility is there.

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08-06-2004, 04:22 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I don't know how you define dynasty, but I don't see the recent Wings clubs as being at that level. The Isles and Habs won it four years in a row. The Isles won a ridiculous number of consecutive playoff series. And, the Gretzky/Messier-led Oiler teams won it five out of seven years. In fact, in recent years, I'd say that NJ was just about as dominant as the Wings (also winning the cup 3 times since '95)
The Hockey News themselves have defined a dynasty in the NHL as "At least 3 cups in 4 years.". It doesnt matter how many star players are on your team, as long as you register 3 notches in 4.

Hell, if Pittsburgh wins the next 3 cups, they will be a dynasty, doesn;t matter how many previous series' they have won.

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08-06-2004, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_man
The Hockey News themselves have defined a dynasty in the NHL as "At least 3 cups in 4 years.". It doesnt matter how many star players are on your team, as long as you register 3 notches in 4.

Hell, if Pittsburgh wins the next 3 cups, they will be a dynasty, doesn;t matter how many previous series' they have won.

I don't know that the Hockey News gets to declare what a dynasty is and is not. I think its a pretty subjective term and, in my personal opinion (and this is just my opinion), I don't think 3 cups in six years qualifies. The Wings did not dominant the NHL in the same way as the Oilers, Habs, and Isles did.

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08-06-2004, 05:23 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
I don't know that the Hockey News gets to declare what a dynasty is and is not. I think its a pretty subjective term and, in my personal opinion (and this is just my opinion), I don't think 3 cups in six years qualifies. The Wings did not dominant the NHL in the same way as the Oilers, Habs, and Isles did.
I didnt say the WIngs are a dynasty because of their 3 cups in 6 years, I'm saying that they came close.

*sigh*I didnt say THN declared what a dynasty was, I'm just saying that they are the source where I got the definition from. Crap.

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08-06-2004, 05:31 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insider
If any of those teams end up with Crosby next year, there is a good chance of a dynasty in about 5-10 years.
Also, If any of those teams end up with Crosby, they could have a hard chance signing all that talent in 5 to 10 years.

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08-06-2004, 05:35 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_man
I didnt say the WIngs are a dynasty because of their 3 cups in 6 years, I'm saying that they came close.

*sigh*I didnt say THN declared what a dynasty was, I'm just saying that they are the source where I got the definition from. Crap.

Easy, my friend. No need to be defensive.

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08-06-2004, 05:41 PM
  #20
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Definition change?

I think with the changing landscape of hockey and hockey business it's only fit that the definition of dynasty changes. I believe NJ and Detroit to be considered dynasties.

Today's NHL is filled with parity. The game has changed a great deal in the last decade. New systems allow teams with less talent to compete at any level. Over a 7 game series any "powerhouse" can be defeated. All it takes is solid team play and a little luck.

NJ and Detroit ahve been perrenial winners and contenders for a decade. There have been many perrenial contenders over the last decade (Dallas, Colorado, Toronto, Philadelphia...) But they have not not had their names engraved on the cup at the same rate as NJ and Detroit. (An argument could be made for the Avalanche, but I feel they are a cup away right now.)

NJ and Detroit have elevated themselves in a class above the rest. They are constantly a threat to win the cup. Not only are they contenders but they are winners. Repeated winners. Some of the cast may change but not the core. I believe that your team cannot be considered a dynasty without having a core group remain over time. If that core group of guys can form a cup winner and repeat it over and over then they are a dynasty.


I'm not sure if my thoughts make sense but I tried to word them out clearly.

Over to you...

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08-06-2004, 06:40 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogeo69
I agree the chance is slim, but not impossible.

Looking at Florida's lineup, its scary. They already have the backbone of a superteam in superstar goalie in Luongo. If Weiss, Horton, Stewart and Bouwmeester all develop, that is one possibly dynastic lineup. Power and skill with Horton, a skilled center in Weiss and a power winger in Stewart. And with Bouwmeester, is he the second coming of Pronger? What are the possibilities that all four prospects can pan out though?

Same thing with Atlanta. We already know that Heatley and Kovalchuk are the real things. But is Lehtonen the next superstar goalie? Can Valabik develop into the next Chara? Exelby, Coburn and Valabik could be a very powerful top 3 backend. What are the chances that all of them develop?

What about Columbus? They already have the power scoring forward in Nash. What about Svitov? Is the big power center? Could Zherdev be the next Russian sensation? Could Pascal Leclaire be the next Luongo?

Out of the three, I would guess that Atlanta would have the best opportunity to become a powerhouse team... but a dynasty? Proof is in the pudding.
______________________________________

Actually, I find your comment (good by the way) almost quotable as a proof there WONT be another dynasty anytime soon. You names Atlanta, Florida and Colombus as 3 teams who are building why elite lineup. Those 3 teams have actually builds those lineup in the same Time and with about the same group age (players).

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08-06-2004, 10:48 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
Those of you who are "experienced" fans might have been around to watch the great Hab, Islander, and Oiler dynasty teams. Those teams were able to dominate nearly every aspect of the sport, being the best offensive and defensive teams of their time, as well as being the toughest, having the best specialty teams, and the best netminding. In their prime, all of these teams were practically unbeatable.

In recent years, we've seen a few really great teams that are always in the mix at post season time (like the Wings, Devils, and now Bolts). But, a number of factors seem to have consipired to keep teams from staying dominant (free agency, $, expansion, parity in the NHL). Although I think that the Bolts could easily win the cup again, and a few other teams around the league have the potential for greatness (Calgary, Florida, Atl) I wonder if we will ever see an Islander/Hab/Oiler kind of dynasty again? Will NHL economics allow a team to stay together long enough to dominate like that?
It will all depend on what the new CBA brings.

Any type of hard cap and you'll likely never see a dynsaty again, as teams that have the talent won't be able to keep their teams together and stay under a cap.

Even if the economics don't change, it will be very difficult to see a team win four straight in todays NHL.

The weaker teams are far better nowadays than they were in the 70's and 80's.

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