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Old
01-22-2009, 04:10 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I hope Chipchura was injured because he was bad. No two ways around it.

He was much more impressive in his stint with us last year.
There's nothing to hope, he was injured, the question was more was he 100%? He played one game in Hamilton I believe before being called back, so perhaps he was still not 100%. I hope he didn't rush back too soon as groin injuries can be tricky, which he has already had in the past during his draft year which forced him to miss a large chunk of time.

As I've said before, when he got the C in Hamilton this year, he was on fire, playing the best I've seen from him but then he gets injured, and upon his return doesn't play all that well.

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01-22-2009, 04:19 PM
  #27
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Well, that's what I mean. I hope that's not what we should expect from Chipchura on a regular basis basically (and like you said, judging from the way he's been playing in Hamilton this year, it isn't).

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01-22-2009, 04:44 PM
  #28
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Well, that's what I mean. I hope that's not what we should expect from Chipchura on a regular basis basically (and like you said, judging from the way he's been playing in Hamilton this year, it isn't).
I wasn't his biggest fan back when he was drafted, but now he's the one I worry about the least, he just does all the little things so well, nothing flashy but he works and is smart with decent skills and some grit. It's too bad he had the injury and I am not saying he's going to be some great player but I would think the Habs brass would love having him on the team, as his past coaches all seem to speak very highly of him (Sutter from Team Canada and Coach Lever seems to really like him as well)

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01-22-2009, 04:45 PM
  #29
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Shoulda sent down Pacioretty and D'Agostini too to save the cap space.

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01-22-2009, 04:53 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by HotHabsFan View Post
just curious to how dissapointed one can be with a

"Selected by Montreal Canadiens round 8 #246 overall 2004 NHL Entry Draft"

draft choice ?

So you can never feel disappointment to a late round pick? So Halak's last start was just amazing because he's a late rounder?

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01-22-2009, 05:05 PM
  #31
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Yeah too bad, maybe a bit of a wake up for Chips as well.
Chipchura really is a bust / waste. I really liked the guy, but he's just not mentally with this team. I look at the hard work and intensity Lapierre brings and how perfectly it fits our team and Carbo's style. Chipchura offers none of this.

It's too bad. I think he's on the fast track out of the NHL. I'm sure he'll get a few more shots around the league and hopefully one day he gets it. Really one of the few misses by Timmins / Gainey. Although 2004 was a crap draft aside from Ovy and Malkin.

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01-22-2009, 05:10 PM
  #32
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Too bad Pleks and Begin couldn't go instead.
Plek needs to play on the 4th line to wake him up. I'd seriously play Lapierre with Kovalev and MaxPac right now for a few games. See how it works out. But right now he's 4th on the depth chart for center.

As for Begin, it doesn't matter. He's a 4th-5th liner anyways. Soon to be free agent. Kosto has out-Begined Begin.

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01-22-2009, 05:18 PM
  #33
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As for Begin, it doesn't matter. He's a 4th-5th liner anyways. Soon to be free agent. Kosto has out-Begined Begin.
I worried we don't have a young grinder that isn't considered good enough to take his place. It shouldn't be that hard of a void to fill.

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01-22-2009, 05:19 PM
  #34
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Chipchura really is a bust / waste. I really liked the guy, but he's just not mentally with this team. I look at the hard work and intensity Lapierre brings and how perfectly it fits our team and Carbo's style. Chipchura offers none of this..
Let me ask you this: how much have you seen him play?

Rounding out this thread, I don't remember a lot of the same negativity being bandied around during his extended stay before Christmas last season. However, since he didn't find a comfort zone in three games here this year, he's on his way out of not only Montreal, but an NHL future?

Chip has progressed this year, he was scoring more and had big +/- numbers in Hamilton. His skating is noticeably better. He got the C, which must mean something given the number of vets Bob signed for the Dogs.

Some people should save their in the moment evaluations for elsewhere.

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01-22-2009, 05:43 PM
  #35
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I still believe that Chipchura will be a solid 3rd line center. He has played very well in the AHL this year and he was good with the Habs last year except for faceoffs. He jsut needs NHL time to develop and with our great depth it's hard for him to get a chance. I definetely think he'll make the team next year.
It would be incredibly risky for us to assume that he can adequately replace Robert Lang.

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01-22-2009, 05:45 PM
  #36
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I worried we don't have a young grinder that isn't considered good enough to take his place. It shouldn't be that hard of a void to fill.
Stewart? He seems alright. We got Begin off waivers didn't we?

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01-22-2009, 05:47 PM
  #37
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Let me ask you this: how much have you seen him play?
Enough, but maybe not enough. When he sits and D'Ago and Stewart play it tells you something. Alot of guys drafted after him have already passed him buy. I'd even say the Habs management values Maxwell above Chipchura at the moment.

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01-22-2009, 07:26 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
Enough, but maybe not enough. When he sits and D'Ago and Stewart play it tells you something. Alot of guys drafted after him have already passed him buy. I'd even say the Habs management values Maxwell above Chipchura at the moment.
Fair. But sitting a centre might have less to do with long term consideration by the organization, and more to do with where bodies are needed.

Chipchura did not have a strong couple of games, that was obvious to everyone including a homer like me. Three years ago, half this board was calling little Andrei Kostitsyn the draft bust of the decade. Lapierre was pegged as a career fringe player last season. Lats would never start living up to his promise. etc. etc. blah. blah. blah. Same tiresome crap over and over again. No sense of what it takes to develop a player and no time to waste before we're on to the next big thing. Greg Stewart? Matt D'Agostini? Maybe. Stewart looks like a Begin with less speed, better fighter, but only slighly better skills. D'Ago with the 1st line shot and one dimensional play might have 2nd line upside.No matter, they're fresh so they have to be better. Until other guys start knocking.

Back to Chip, it's not obvious as to what could happen at centre next year with the club. Management might even have expected he'd slot in last year but it didn't happen, with consensus being that his faceoff work killed him. Otherwise he'd have had a full year of development in the NHL. He didn't and it hurt him playing a defensive role on a terrible team in Hamilton.

There's lots of time. Some think he has to find a fit sooner rather than later and maybe management thinks the same, we have no way of knowing. On the other hand he may not be going anywhere. He's closing in on 23, in a big body. No one I know ever claimed he'd be the next incarnation of Cam Neely, but at the same age, Neely was traded to the Bruins for essentially a bag of pucks.

We also don't have to keep every pick and prospect and it may very well turn out that it works out better for him elsewhere. My sense of it is that it'll be our loss and that comes from watching his progression in Hamilton over the past two and a half seasons. I could be wrong, but I'm hoping the early write off crew is instead.

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01-22-2009, 07:41 PM
  #39
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Fair. But sitting a centre might have less to do with long term consideration by the organization, and more to do with where bodies are needed.
The progression isn't promising really. Considering our weakest position over the past 5-6 years is center, and with Lapierre completely by passing Chipchura and making a play to be our 3rd line center for the next 10 years, it doesn't look good for Kyle. If Chipchura was really going to step up it would have been with Koivu out for so long. But Lapierre stepped up instead.

Chipchura
Age 17 WHL
Age 18 WHL
Age 19 WHL
Age 20 AHL
Age 21 AHL / NHL
Age 22 AHL / NHL (barely)

Lapierre
Age 18 QMJHL
Age 19 QMJHL
Age 20 AHL
Age 21 AHL / NHL
Age 22 AHL / NHL (permanently)
Age 23 NHL (permanently)

A Kost
Age 17 Russia
Age 18 Russia
Age 19 AHL
Age 20 AHL
Age 21 AHL / NHL
Age 22 NHL (entire season)

Lats
Age 17 QMJHL
Age 18 QMJHL
Age 19 NHL
Age 20 NHL
Age 21 NHL

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01-22-2009, 08:59 PM
  #40
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I've always liked Chipchura. I saw his upside as a Steve Rucchin-in-his-prime, which is a compliment: big, two-way center who compensates for foot unspeed with smarts. But I never really considered his downside. I just took for granted that he would be a good player in a 3rd line role at the very least.

But he reminded me of a player during his last call-up: Shaun Van Allen. Slow and generally limited, but a smart player who had to dominate the AHL and master the details of the game before drifting through the NHL as a useful role player for 800 games and 6 different stops.

I still hold out a firm hope that Chipchura will be better than that, but I think I now have a better sense of what his downside might be. But even then, that's a respectable career. Just not what you want from an 18th overall pick with Chipchura's pedigree.


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01-22-2009, 09:06 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
The progression isn't promising really. Considering our weakest position over the past 5-6 years is center, and with Lapierre completely by passing Chipchura and making a play to be our 3rd line center for the next 10 years, it doesn't look good for Kyle. If Chipchura was really going to step up it would have been with Koivu out for so long. But Lapierre stepped up instead.

Chipchura
Age 17 WHL
Age 18 WHL
Age 19 WHL
Age 20 AHL
Age 21 AHL / NHL
Age 22 AHL / NHL (barely)

Lapierre
Age 18 QMJHL
Age 19 QMJHL
Age 20 AHL
Age 21 AHL / NHL
Age 22 AHL / NHL (permanently)
Age 23 NHL (permanently)

A Kost
Age 17 Russia
Age 18 Russia
Age 19 AHL
Age 20 AHL
Age 21 AHL / NHL
Age 22 NHL (entire season)

Lats
Age 17 QMJHL
Age 18 QMJHL
Age 19 NHL
Age 20 NHL
Age 21 NHL
Yes good post - can anyone see Chipchura unseating Lapierre for 3rd Centre? Clearly he is not a 2nd Centre - and he just lacks the nastiness you want from a 4th line Centre.

I think he will be gone this offseason. Am sure his agent would want the same. A top draft pick to sit in the minors that long - its time for change of scenery. Maybe he might do well somewhere else - but clearly not suited to what Habs are trying to do.

In my best Robert De Niro voice: Chipchura - YOU BLEW IT !

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Old
01-22-2009, 11:10 PM
  #42
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I hope Chipchura was injured because he was bad. No two ways around it.

He was much more impressive in his stint with us last year.
Chips should start plan B, as should a number of the Dogs. IMO he is not in the long term plans of the Canadiens. His best chance is to be included in a trade. If you watch who gets the attention in Hamilton you'll get an idea of who the Habs are looking at as support this year and for next years camp.

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01-22-2009, 11:38 PM
  #43
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Zurg,

I agree with you on Chipchura and the tiresome bashing crap that pops up on this board with regularity and will continue so with new targets as they get in focus. A few average games after an injury is enough for many to send a prospect into a recycle bin despite all other work he's done even this season, including a very solid game againist Florida earlier this season. Where I don't agree with you is on Stewart. I think he can be a lot more then Begin, and for that matter, Kosto. Not only he is bigger and stonger than Begin, what really sets Greg apart is his hockey sense, his ability to make good decisions with the puck. That combined with solid skating, good size/strength, and Begin-like work ethic and intensity could make for one hell of a grinder. Stewart and Lappy can make a heck of a grinding duo in the years to come and efectively make guys like Begin and Kosto expandable.

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01-23-2009, 01:33 AM
  #44
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Chipchura was incredibly disappointing. His problem is that in hockey terms, he's just ''there''. He doesn't stand out much because he's slow, not physical, bad on faceoffs, not all that talented offensively and plays with not much if any grit or fire. Sure he's good defensively and smart, and that that will probably get him a regular NHL job on another team, likely a poor one, but it won't be enough here it looks like. This was his big chance and he blew it. Really looks like we wasted a 1st rounder on a player who had limited upside to begin with.

We now have just a shade under 1.9 M in cap space though. It goes down 7200$ every day with D'Ago and Pac still up.
Thank you !!

Finally someone who agrees with me !! I said it since day one that Kyle "Slowpoke" Chipchura was a wasted pick in 2004. It all looks like it...

Slowly, but Surely, people are starting to realize that this guy is a bust in the Making.

I can bet anything you want that Chipchura will never anything more than a Career AHLer.

Taking this kind of player that high in the draft (limited offensive upside, defensive minded and slow as hell) is such a waste. Players like Chipchura are raining in the AHL and there are probably better players in Europe. This guy is probably the worst selection of Trevor Timmins. He is the Brent Bilodeau or Terry Ryan of this new Era.



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01-23-2009, 01:41 AM
  #45
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Thank you !!

Finally someone who agrees with me !! I said it since day one that Kyle "Slowpoke" Chipchura was a wasted pick in 2004. It all looks like it...

Taking this kind of player that high in the draft (limited offensive upside, defensive minded and slow as hell) is such a waste. Players like Chipchura are raining in the AHL and there are probably better players in Europe. This guy is probably the worst selection of Trevor Timmins. He is the Brent Bilodeau or Terry Ryan of this new Era.

Except for the fact that those two have a combined 8 NHL games played when the Habs had ****** teams and Chipchura already has 44 games played on good Habs teams?

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Old
01-23-2009, 02:33 AM
  #46
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Chipchura did not have a strong couple of games, that was obvious to everyone including a homer like me. Three years ago, half this board was calling little Andrei Kostitsyn the draft bust of the decade. Lapierre was pegged as a career fringe player last season. Lats would never start living up to his promise. etc. etc. blah. blah. blah. Same tiresome crap over and over again. No sense of what it takes to develop a player and no time to waste before we're on to the next big thing. Greg Stewart? Matt D'Agostini? Maybe. Stewart looks like a Begin with less speed, better fighter, but only slighly better skills. D'Ago with the 1st line shot and one dimensional play might have 2nd line upside.No matter, they're fresh so they have to be better. Until other guys start knocking.
I agree with you, but sometimes you have to learn not to hold on a prospect for too long. Look what we did with Eric Chouinard, we traded him to the Flyers for a second round draft pick in a very good draft and we got Lapierre with it. Less than a year later, Chouinard was traded to the Wild for a fifth round pick. If we had waited another year, hoping he would be a late bloomer, we could have regreted it in the end...

I believe Chipchura still has a good reputation (being a former Captain with Team Canada and actual captain with the Bulldogs) and the size to impress some GM. In my opinion, he could still be dealt for a late second round draft pick or an early third round (let's not forget 2009 should be a very good draft). Now, if that's the case, should we do it ? I'm not sure yes is the answer, but we should at least think about it.

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01-23-2009, 09:14 AM
  #47
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Thank you !!

Taking this kind of player that high in the draft (limited offensive upside, defensive minded and slow as hell) is such a waste. Players like Chipchura are raining in the AHL and there are probably better players in Europe. This guy is probably the worst selection of Trevor Timmins. He is the Brent Bilodeau or Terry Ryan of this new Era.
Yes....why do you keep repeating it. It is certainly not Timmins best pick...it has been established already....we get it.....Enough. You were right, you win....though tons of other people have already said it before you....but if you want to believe that you're the only one that had seen the light...well, fine then. It's also great how you know that his achilles tendon injury he got after being picked with us has no relation with the fact that the guy did not improved his speed as much as needed in all those years...

Now can you actually move on to other things or is Kostitsyn, Higgins and Chipchura the only things you can talk about? Pretty easy to be right when you only specialized in 3 players....

By the way, how's your assessment on Pacioretty....you did say at one point that you were analyzing him for a few games and then would give us your analysis as to if he'll succeed or not in the NHL....


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01-23-2009, 10:52 AM
  #48
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Chips has improved his speed. He can be a very gritty player, is good along the boards, with some offensive abilities as a playmaker and with garbage goals. He has a set of hands that are underrated. As with Laps he needs to feel comfortable in a role and the yo yo isnt working. I would love to see him on Saku's wing.

How would you rate Chip's speed at this point? His top end seems ok but a lil slow with acceleration? Her whining about Chip doesnt negate the fact that AKost was picked before Parise and Getzlaf among others.
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Yes....why do you keep repeating it. It is certainly not Timmins best pick...it has been established already....we get it.....Enough. You were right, you win....though tons of other people have already said it before you....but if you want to believe that you're the only one that had seen the light...well, fine then. It's also great how you know that his achilles tendon injury he got after being picked with us has no relation with the fact that the guy did not improved his speed as much as needed in all those years...

Now can you actually move on to other things or is Kostitsyn, Higgins and Chipchura the only things you can talk about? Pretty easy to be right when you only specialized in 3 players....

By the way, how's your assessment on Pacioretty....you did say at one point that you were analyzing him for a few games and then would give us your analysis as to if he'll succeed or not in the NHL....


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01-23-2009, 11:02 AM
  #49
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Exactly, There isnt many whining about Lapierre anymore. Young players sometimes need to find their role and there isnt many flashbang offensively talented players to play with. One bone of contention. D'ago has shown good defensive play on occasion. I think he can be a good two way player with a nice shot and good speed and smarts and he isnt a dwarf. He reminds me a tad of Steve Shutt! One can only dream. If he can play opportunistically around the net and yet come back and help the Dmen he is a keeper.
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Fair. But sitting a centre might have less to do with long term consideration by the organization, and more to do with where bodies are needed.

Chipchura did not have a strong couple of games, that was obvious to everyone including a homer like me. Three years ago, half this board was calling little Andrei Kostitsyn the draft bust of the decade. Lapierre was pegged as a career fringe player last season. Lats would never start living up to his promise. etc. etc. blah. blah. blah. Same tiresome crap over and over again. No sense of what it takes to develop a player and no time to waste before we're on to the next big thing. Greg Stewart? Matt D'Agostini? Maybe. Stewart looks like a Begin with less speed, better fighter, but only slighly better skills. D'Ago with the 1st line shot and one dimensional play might have 2nd line upside.No matter, they're fresh so they have to be better. Until other guys start knocking.

Back to Chip, it's not obvious as to what could happen at centre next year with the club. Management might even have expected he'd slot in last year but it didn't happen, with consensus being that his faceoff work killed him. Otherwise he'd have had a full year of development in the NHL. He didn't and it hurt him playing a defensive role on a terrible team in Hamilton.

There's lots of time. Some think he has to find a fit sooner rather than later and maybe management thinks the same, we have no way of knowing. On the other hand he may not be going anywhere. He's closing in on 23, in a big body. No one I know ever claimed he'd be the next incarnation of Cam Neely, but at the same age, Neely was traded to the Bruins for essentially a bag of pucks.

We also don't have to keep every pick and prospect and it may very well turn out that it works out better for him elsewhere. My sense of it is that it'll be our loss and that comes from watching his progression in Hamilton over the past two and a half seasons. I could be wrong, but I'm hoping the early write off crew is instead.

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01-23-2009, 11:11 AM
  #50
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How would you rate Chip's speed at this point? His top end seems ok but a lil slow with acceleration? Her whining about Chip doesnt negate the fact that AKost was picked before Parise and Getzlaf among others.
Strangely, I thought that he looked faster last year than he did this year. But then is it more about speed than it's about decision making. I do know that his first steps are still awful.

But after watching him closely with the Dogs when they were in Montreal, the kid seemed too good to be playing there. So I really don't know what to do with him. Keep having faith and see what he can do....or acknowledge that he might not even have a room even if he improved and try to see what is up there à la Locke for Belle style....(but a better return than that since I still believe Chip has some value)

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