HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Toronto's Available Players

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-24-2009, 03:41 PM
  #51
God
Free Citizen
 
God's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,743
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldo Ronaldo View Post
Well, since the question is not about value per se and rather about what we think Burke will end up getting if in fact they are traded, here are my thoughts which will obviously command significant flaming as per value because it is unheard of for teams to overpay at the deadline or at the draft and it is not like prospects and picks are vastly overrated here:

Kaberle - will command an A level prospect (one of any team's top two) and a B/B+ young roster player, and a non-first from a later year (i.e. Hodgson + Grabner; JVR + Parent; Hanzal + McLean + 2nd 2009; Pacioretty + Subban + 2nd 2009; Backlund + Boyd)

Kubina - later 1st rounder (20-25) + B/B+ level prospect (i.e. Carolina 1st + Sutter, Minnesota 1st + Gillies, Washington 1st + Gustafsson)

Antropov - similar to Kubina although perhaps later 1st or two B level prospect/young roster players or a B+ prospect + salary dump (i.e Lashoff + Sturm; Goligoski + Pesonen or 2nd or Caputi)

Ponikarovsky - likely a LATE 1st (like last in round) or 2nd or a project prospect that hasn't really worked out so far in his surroundings (I don't think he will be traded so I'm not putting much thought into this one)

Toskala - 2nd rounder + project prospect (again, I don't see him going anywhere despite the fact that Burke has said he has been offered as much)
Kaberle - I can see Hanzal as the main piece but that's pretty much the "peak" of the quality of prospect that you're getting - a guy who looks like he'll be destined for the second line. Adding another one like Parent or Grabner is wishful thinking if you've got Hodgson or JVR.

Kubina - That's reasonable. Carolina might not be inclined to give Sutter up just yet, though.

Antropov - Way too much. He'll probably get a first and a mid level prospect. That's the most I can see a team offering for him. He should be packaged with Kaberle or Kubina.

Poni - a 2nd and maybe something small at most, if a team gives up a first for him I'll be surprised.

Toskala - He's not better than Huet or Biron at the deadline. A 2nd round pick is the going price and that's probably what he'll land, but I don't know if there are any teams who need him.

God is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2009, 03:51 PM
  #52
cyris
On a Soma Holiday
 
cyris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 3rd Planet From Sun.
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cappo619 View Post
I'd rather keep him and not make him move it anyways...I like Hagman, tough gritty forward and is my type of player
I like Hagman but tough and gritty wouldn't be 2 words i would use to describe him.
He is a good two way player, but he isnt very tough.

cyris is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2009, 04:00 PM
  #53
Leafidelity
Compete Level
 
Leafidelity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,459
vCash: 1775
White has been logging around 25 minutes a night and has seen almost 30mins a few times. He may have been next to nothing in value at the beginning of the season, but his value has gone up quite a bit.

He may have even played himself into the teams long term plans

Leafidelity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-24-2009, 08:14 PM
  #54
Baldo Ronaldo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 226
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cao View Post
Kaberle - I can see Hanzal as the main piece but that's pretty much the "peak" of the quality of prospect that you're getting - a guy who looks like he'll be destined for the second line. Adding another one like Parent or Grabner is wishful thinking if you've got Hodgson or JVR.

Kubina - That's reasonable. Carolina might not be inclined to give Sutter up just yet, though.

Antropov - Way too much. He'll probably get a first and a mid level prospect. That's the most I can see a team offering for him. He should be packaged with Kaberle or Kubina.

Poni - a 2nd and maybe something small at most, if a team gives up a first for him I'll be surprised.

Toskala - He's not better than Huet or Biron at the deadline. A 2nd round pick is the going price and that's probably what he'll land, but I don't know if there are any teams who need him.
Well, your response indicates critique based on value. I don't necessarily disagree with you in that regard. However, my point was that values are often skewed in actual trade situations (especially when adding players for playoff runs) because that is what it takes to make it happen. If both teams think a given trade is merely a, "wash", they simply have no reason to do it. Accordingly, if Kaberle is moved, which move I would be at least somewhat surprised by, he, in my opinion, will command the previously mentioned return - otherwise, Burke simply would have no reason to do it.

Baldo Ronaldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2009, 12:00 AM
  #55
loadie
Official Beer Taster
 
loadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Brunswick
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,097
vCash: 500
I don't try to make proposals, but I'll have a kick at the cat for Montreal. We need another DMan, so:

Kaberle: Higgins + 1st in 2010 (If Burke insists on this year, so be it)
Kubina: Maxwell + 2nd

loadie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-25-2009, 12:48 AM
  #56
leafscrazy
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 103
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baldo Ronaldo View Post
Well, since the question is not about value per se and rather about what we think Burke will end up getting if in fact they are traded, here are my thoughts which will obviously command significant flaming as per value because it is unheard of for teams to overpay at the deadline or at the draft and it is not like prospects and picks are vastly overrated here:

Kaberle - will command an A level prospect (one of any team's top two) and a B/B+ young roster player, and a non-first from a later year (i.e. Hodgson + Grabner; JVR + Parent; Hanzal + McLean + 2nd 2009; Pacioretty + Subban + 2nd 2009; Backlund + Boyd)

Kubina - later 1st rounder (20-25) + B/B+ level prospect (i.e. Carolina 1st + Sutter, Minnesota 1st + Gillies, Washington 1st + Gustafsson)

Antropov - similar to Kubina although perhaps later 1st or two B level prospect/young roster players or a B+ prospect + salary dump (i.e Lashoff + Sturm; Goligoski + Pesonen or 2nd or Caputi)

Ponikarovsky - likely a LATE 1st (like last in round) or 2nd or a project prospect that hasn't really worked out so far in his surroundings (I don't think he will be traded so I'm not putting much thought into this one)

Toskala - 2nd rounder + project prospect (again, I don't see him going anywhere despite the fact that Burke has said he has been offered as much)


I donít know about you but there isnít much to flame about in the value of these trades. True, some people will think that Hodgson is completely off limits for a team like Vancouver or that overpayment is uncommon at the deadline but the fact of life is that teams will definitely overpay at the deadline. An example of this is Pittsburgh giving up a 2nd and a 5th for Hal Gill and Florida giving up a 3rd for Chad Kilger. Based your values, I decided to play out these scenarios, with plausible explanations, and see what Brian Burke ends up with at the end of the day. So here goesÖ.

We interrupt the Prime Time Sports on the FAN 590 with Bob McCown to announce that Tomas Kaberle has been traded to the Vancouver Canucks for forwards Micheal Grabner and Cody Hodgson.
Analysis: Mike Gillis is desperate to make the playoffs seeing as itís this teamís last chance to contend before Sundin ďretiresĒ and the Sedins command major pay raises. Gillis is reluctant to trade away his 1st round pick as it is his fallback plan in the case that the Canucks fail to make the playoffs. Philadelphia cannot make the trade for Kaberle due to their cap problems, Montreal is too consumed with Vinny Lecavalier and Burke is uninterested in another European player (a.k.a Backlund). At the end of the day, Burke wants to go Canadian with his roster and so Grabner might not fit his plans, in which case he gets flipped to move up in the draft.
Sportscentre Update: Toronto has traded Pavel Kubina to the Carolina Hurricanes for a 2009 1st round pick and forward Brandon Sutter.
Analysis: Carolina needs to make the playoffs in order to avoid being the first team to win the Cup and then not make the playoffs for 3 seasons. They desperately need physical defensemen and Kubina is both a puck mover and a physical defenseman that gets the job done. Carolina definitely overpays in this one but it does happen (refer to San Jose trade for Brian Campbell)

Text Message from Sportsnet.ca: Toronto has traded Nik Antropov and Matt Stajan to the Pittsburgh Penguins for their 2009 1st round pick, Phillipe Boucher and their 2009 2nd round pick.
Analysis: Pens GM Ray Shero has been known to gamble for rentals like Marian Hossa in order to make deep pushes into the playoffs. Shero needs to make the playoffs in order to avoid sinking a team with Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Whitney, Gonchar and Fleury. Most importantly, he needs to keep his job

Another Text Message from Sportsnet.ca: Toronto has traded Poni and Toskala to the Colorado Avalanche in exchange for their 2009 1st round pick, Ruslan Salei and a 2009 3rd rounder.
Analysis: Brian Burke had to pull a rabbit from a top hat to make this one work but it does seem plausible if Colorado wants to make the playoffs this year.

At 6:00pm on Molsonís Thatís Hockey with Gino Reda, a breakdown of the trade deadline is done with Brian Burke stealing the show.

Toronto loses: Tomas Kaberle, Pavel Kubina, Nik Antropov, Vesa Toskala, Alexei Poni, Matt Stajan

Toronto gets: Brandon Sutter, Micheal Grabner, Cody Hodgson, 3 1st rounders, a high second rounder and a third rounder. The three first rounders result in Ryan Ellis, Peter Holland and Zach Kassian. They migh have just tanked their team so badly that they are now worst than the Islanders (if thatís possible).

leafscrazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-04-2009, 11:21 PM
  #57
TaketheCannoli
RIP
 
TaketheCannoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 8,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leek View Post
No reason to argue anyone's predictions. Each should just take their best shot at who and what's the return.It doesn't matter who else becomes sellers or buyers or how the market may or may not change.

It's to see how good we are at valuations when we can look back March 5th.
Well the dust has settled. Looking through the thread, who was the closest to what happened?

TaketheCannoli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-04-2009, 11:54 PM
  #58
BruinsBtn
Registered User
 
BruinsBtn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,580
vCash: 500
Funny that Burke was saying Antropov was worth a third a month ago. Most here thought he was worth a 1st + a prospect. Must be a sad day for Leaf fans.

BruinsBtn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2009, 12:33 AM
  #59
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosieRuzica View Post
Funny that Burke was saying Antropov was worth a third a month ago. Most here thought he was worth a 1st + a prospect. Must be a sad day for Leaf fans.

Burke prepared Leaf fans for dissappointment, and yes we were disappointed. Leave it to the Leafs to finally sell and try to re-build, and all we can get is a waiver defenceman and goalie, 2 2nd round picks for 2 of our 3 best forwards, and a 4th with 3 injured UFA's who will never put on a Leaf jersey..

smoke meat pete* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2009, 12:44 AM
  #60
Respect Your Edler
Thank You 52
 
Respect Your Edler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: China
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,221
vCash: 500
Hmm, so Toronto didn't get Hodgon + a 1st + a roster player from Vancouver? What a ****ing surprise. It's been two years in a row where Toronto fans vastly overrated what they could trade at the deadline and what they would get in return. Hopefully someone will learn from this and make less crappy trade proposals next season, but I really doubt it. Also another year where no NTCs get moved, shocking.

Respect Your Edler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2009, 01:19 AM
  #61
Schennanigans
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Schennanigans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Etobicoke, on
Posts: 6,007
vCash: 500
Did some actually offer Antropov for Hodgson?

Schennanigans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2009, 02:27 AM
  #62
Oblivion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,631
vCash: 500
Burke got a 2nd for Antropov(the expected return of Antropov outside of Toronto) and a 2nd for Moore (likely more tha what was expected), I don't think that's bad at all.

If fans think they got ripped off in the Antropov deal (which they didn't), then it seems undeniable that they made it up in the better than expected return on Moore.

That being said, this is Brian Burke, expect him to deal these 2nd rounders away for something, I'm not even sure he scouts prospects for the second round.

Oblivion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2009, 07:32 AM
  #63
None More Negative*
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Downtown Hades
Posts: 462
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeylover007 View Post
Korpikoski + 1st
or
Dawes + Anisimov/Grachev
or
Callahan + Del Zotto
Boy, those would've been great for Toronto to get for Antropov, huh?

None More Negative* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2009, 08:33 AM
  #64
Machinae
Registered User
 
Machinae's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Mississauga, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,514
vCash: 500
Last year Antropov would have gotten a 1st

Machinae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2009, 09:18 AM
  #65
MeowLeafs
LM is awesome
 
MeowLeafs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baconland
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpitfireCrayn View Post
Last year Antropov would have gotten a 1st
2 years ago Antropov would've gotten a bagel at best

MeowLeafs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2009, 09:42 AM
  #66
dubey
So hot right now
 
dubey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Hackey Mecca
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,861
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schennanigans View Post
Did some actually offer Antropov for Hodgson?
I heard Mike Gillis did

dubey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2009, 10:13 AM
  #67
Fozz
Registered User
 
Fozz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
I heard Mike Gillis did
And yet, Burke figured a 2nd round pick was a better return...

Don't believe everything you hear.

Fozz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2009, 10:14 AM
  #68
embracedbias
Registered User
 
embracedbias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Waterloo
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,920
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanatic19 View Post
I suppose it is "brutal", but he is playing some of the best hockey of his career and he is playing pretty well. My post was not meant to bring Moore down, just to point out that what you get for Moore probably won't be worth it. (Other teams know how good/bad he is, and know that on most teams he wouldn't have the same impact for them = not getting much in return for him.)

ha!!

embracedbias is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-05-2009, 10:58 AM
  #69
TaketheCannoli
RIP
 
TaketheCannoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 8,612
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpitfireCrayn View Post
Last year Antropov would have gotten a 1st
I gotta think there was good and not as good.

I don't think many fans thought a rental Moore would bring a 2nd rounder.

I don't think many fans thought Antropov would only bring a 2nd and an unlikely conditional pick (Do you really see the Rangers in the East Finals?)

We will never know what the rest would have returned.

TaketheCannoli is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:13 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.