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What kind of 'fan' wants this to fail?

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Old
07-20-2004, 06:59 PM
  #1
Le Golie
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What kind of 'fan' wants this to fail?

How can you call yourself a fan of the game and then hope this league fails?

I get confused by people who say it's a joke, it'll never get off the ground, it'll fold after 3 months, nobody wants to play there, etc.

Sure it's been put together in an awful hurry and it's looked pretty unprofessional at times. And sure not every NHL player will be beating down the door to get picked up by a WHA tea, but as someone who has the health of the sport in mind I'd love for this league to flourish.

For years the NHL has had nothing to push it, this is a change I definitely welcome.

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07-20-2004, 07:03 PM
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Russian_fanatic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Cherry
How can you call yourself a fan of the game and then hope this league fails?

I get confused by people who say it's a joke, it'll never get off the ground, it'll fold after 3 months, nobody wants to play there, etc.

Sure it's been put together in an awful hurry and it's looked pretty unprofessional at times. And sure not every NHL player will be beating down the door to get picked up by a WHA tea, but as someone who has the health of the sport in mind I'd love for this league to flourish.

For years the NHL has had nothing to push it, this is a change I definitely welcome.
Right their... You don't put "Big leagues" together in hurry.

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07-20-2004, 07:06 PM
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Epsilon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Cherry
How can you call yourself a fan of the game and then hope this league fails?

I get confused by people who say it's a joke, it'll never get off the ground, it'll fold after 3 months, nobody wants to play there, etc.

Sure it's been put together in an awful hurry and it's looked pretty unprofessional at times. And sure not every NHL player will be beating down the door to get picked up by a WHA tea, but as someone who has the health of the sport in mind I'd love for this league to flourish.

For years the NHL has had nothing to push it, this is a change I definitely welcome.
A lot of it is Q fans who are really indignant over the idea that they could lose their hero Crosby, to Toronto and "English Canada" no less.

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07-20-2004, 07:08 PM
  #4
Lard_Lad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Cherry
How can you call yourself a fan of the game and then hope this league fails?

I get confused by people who say it's a joke, it'll never get off the ground, it'll fold after 3 months, nobody wants to play there, etc.
There's a difference between thinking that the league will fail and hoping it does. Most of us who expect it to go under quickly are just offering what we think is a realistic opinion, as opposed to blind optimism.

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07-20-2004, 07:10 PM
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Trottier
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Answer: A fan who doesn't want to see further dilution of the NHL's talent pool. A fan who has seen other "startup" leagues fail in better economic climates than the current one. A fan who saw great players like Bobby Hull leave the NHL thanks to the first WHA. (Not to worry. This league will never get off the ground.)

Sorry, not buying the "HF wisdom" of the "true fan". That is, let's water down the NHL. And while we're at it, let's hope our NHL team "tanks" the season so we can draft 18n y/o wonder boy Sidney Crosby.

Just wonderful.

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07-20-2004, 07:21 PM
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Le Golie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lard_Lad
There's a difference between thinking that the league will fail and hoping it does. Most of us who expect it to go under quickly are just offering what we think is a realistic opinion, as opposed to blind optimism.
I was referring to the people that are 'hoping' it fails.

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07-20-2004, 07:27 PM
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1. People who don't want to dilute the NHL talent
2. People who don't want to see investors lose money
3. Fans of the NHL alone
4. Fans of certain cities that already have NHL teams
5. Hockey players that know having other leagues could take away advertisement money for the NHL which could mean lower wages

People who want the WHA to succeed...

1. Cities that don't have NHL teams
2. People that can't afford NHL teams
3. Hockey players that aren't good enough for the NHL
4. People who don't like the NHL system
5. People who just like hockey in general no matter where it comes from

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07-20-2004, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Hart_House_Ca
5. People who just like hockey in general no matter where it comes from
Yes, sir!

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07-20-2004, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hart_House_Ca
1. People who don't want to dilute the NHL talent
Ah, you mean people who are still living in 1988...?

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07-20-2004, 11:07 PM
  #10
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Competition is always healthy.

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Old
07-21-2004, 12:58 PM
  #11
Erngueva
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
A lot of it is Q fans who are really indignant over the idea that they could lose their hero Crosby, to Toronto and "English Canada" no less.

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07-21-2004, 01:09 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hart_House_Ca
1. People who don't want to dilute the NHL talent
The NHL and their beloved Bettman did this to themselves. What will offset the further dillution in the WHA is the fact that 8 or 10 teams will be playing a 76 game schedule, thus the rivalry will be incredible. If you become a fan of this league, you will know every player on every team, because you see them constantly. You'll know who hates who, which player scored the goal that won the game last time, who is a sure bet to fight, what the tendencies of each player is.

I watch the NHL via Center Ice, sometimes I flick between all the channels. I think I have a pretty good handle on 80% of the players, but I can't say I really know them. There are too many teams out there that I couldn't give a crap about, because my favorite teams play them once...twice a year. In the WHA, you can't not care, because you are going to play everyone a lot.

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07-21-2004, 06:03 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
A lot of it is Q fans who are really indignant over the idea that they could lose their hero Crosby, to Toronto and "English Canada" no less.
I'm from Quebec and I would be happy if Crosby plays in the WHA.

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07-22-2004, 05:01 AM
  #14
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this could lead to a discussion about the unnecessary expansion of the NHL. i wouldn't mind a lockout where some franchises have to close, because the NHL was getting weaker with every expansion. that's why i'd love to have a good WHA with no NHL-talent, but with solid pro-talent. the NHL would be better with less teams and the WHA could need some more cities. see it as a premier league and a 2nd-tier league.
but unfortunately the WHA seems to fail and the first franchises in the NHL who would have to close would be some traditional ones and that's sad.

but yes, i want the WHA to succeed. no new NHL, but a good pro league.

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07-22-2004, 10:01 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
A lot of it is Q fans who are really indignant over the idea that they could lose their hero Crosby, to Toronto and "English Canada" no less.
Yeah because the bulk of Q fans are French.

Have you chcked attendance? 5 maritime teams out draw the french teams.

And as a Halifax fan, when the team owners from Toronto say they will play Hardball with the Mooseheads and try and steal our players that doesnt go over too well in Moosehead nation.

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07-22-2004, 05:01 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
Answer: A fan who doesn't want to see further dilution of the NHL's talent pool. A fan who has seen other "startup" leagues fail in better economic climates than the current one. A fan who saw great players like Bobby Hull leave the NHL thanks to the first WHA. (Not to worry. This league will never get off the ground.)

Sorry, not buying the "HF wisdom" of the "true fan". That is, let's water down the NHL. And while we're at it, let's hope our NHL team "tanks" the season so we can draft 18n y/o wonder boy Sidney Crosby.

Just wonderful.
I understand your position, but do you think it was really bad for the hockey world for Bobby to play in the WHA? Financially it ushered in a bad aspect, but that was inevitable. Bobby Hull was still playing great hockey against (some, anyhow) worthy opponents.

Sure you've seen other leagues fail and this one just may, but I don't see that as a reason as to why you'd want it to fail, rather it is a (very sound) rationalization of why it likely WILL fail.

As far as the talent pool is concerned, I don't see it as a major issue. There are only... 8 teams? Between them how much real NHL talent is the league going to swallow? Seems to me like it will mostly be guys who aren't yet NHL ready, declining vets, and guys who never have or will make it to the NHL. The NHL might have slight talent problems, but it is of the league's own doing and the WHA won't make it much worse. The talent pool is growing exponentially every year and as long as the NHL doesn't add teams it'll be just fine.

Looking back I think the original WHA had a very positive impact on hockey and likely the new WHA will have no impact. It'll just be what it is, a cheap, decent league that may just be a great bang for your buck. That is if it ever exists.

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08-06-2004, 04:58 PM
  #17
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my only concern is the further degradation of talent in the NHL. If the WHA wants to succeed, then it needs to bleed some skilled players away from the NHL, and that is something the NHL can't really afford right now.

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08-06-2004, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
A lot of it is Q fans who are really indignant over the idea that they could lose their hero Crosby, to Toronto and "English Canada" no less.

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08-06-2004, 05:04 PM
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If you read these boards, there are a lot of weird fans who seem to think they're NHL management/ownership.

These guys worry about arbitration, players demanding too much money, etc. And this isn't restricted to the small market fans.

I think the WHA would be a really entertaining thing to watch, I'm looking forward to it.

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08-06-2004, 05:05 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
A lot of it is Q fans who are really indignant over the idea that they could lose their hero Crosby, to Toronto and "English Canada" no less.
Ummm, right, that makes a lot of sense... :

Especially since Sidney Crosby comes from "English Canada" in the first place, and only played in Quebec for all of ONE season.

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Old
08-06-2004, 05:17 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
A lot of it is Q fans who are really indignant over the idea that they could lose their hero Crosby, to Toronto and "English Canada" no less.
What an ignorant post. I hate how people generalize Quebec.

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08-06-2004, 07:56 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_Cherry
How can you call yourself a fan of the game and then hope this league fails?

I get confused by people who say it's a joke, it'll never get off the ground, it'll fold after 3 months, nobody wants to play there, etc.

Sure it's been put together in an awful hurry and it's looked pretty unprofessional at times. And sure not every NHL player will be beating down the door to get picked up by a WHA tea, but as someone who has the health of the sport in mind I'd love for this league to flourish.

For years the NHL has had nothing to push it, this is a change I definitely welcome.
It's not about wanting this to fail. It's about hearing for 2 or 3 years that this thing is starting, and now that it's finally here, the thing looks like nothing other then a joke. The WHA's worst enemy so far, has been the WHA, and don't let them tell you anything different because it's the truth.

And for some reason people think that because a hockey league WANTS to be good, that it's going to push the NHL. This thing has shown no(and I repeat, NO) signs of respectablility.

First of all, they announced 7 teams plus a "founders franchise" for their drafts. So they have their drafts. Then a month later Vancouver gets the founders franchise but the league is down to only 6 teams.

Second of all, the league is already complaining about not being able to get leases. Do these people enjoy throwing money away? A LEASE to play in a bulding should be the FIRST THING you get.

Third, the league for some reason is spread out all across North America. Dallas, Detroit, Vancouver, Quebec City, Halifax, Florida(I assume those are the 6, more on that in a sec) would it not make more sense to keep the league close together to cut down on travel and fatigue? Because you know that Halifax team will love those trips to Dallas to play a game, then it's off to Detroit? Florida? Glad i'm not paying their travel bill.

Fourth, the league is treating it's fans like idiots. How did they get from 8 to 6(according to the Quebec owner) teams? What happens to the players drafted by those other 2 teams? The Halifax team said it'd have a coach and GM in place by the 31st of July, it's now the 6th of August and still nothing it official.

Fifth, Bobby Hull goes on the ATV news in Halifax and in one sentence says "this league will be very affordable, a husband can take his wife and child to a guy without having to mortgage the family home" then less then 5 minues later says "ticket prices should be about half of the NHL, about $60 each". Halifax is not Detroit or Dallas Mr. Hull. $60 tickets are NOT going to fly in a market where only Jr hockey has been a major success with ticket prices topping out at $15 each approximately.

Sixth, the league said it would not offer contracts with an out clause for players. Now you tell me, what NHL player is going to sign on for this league without an out clause? They've basically eliminated half the professional players they drafted with that comment and nobody is going to pay $60 to watch some kids, especially in Vancouver, Halifax, and Quebec City where the Giants, Mooseheads, and Remparts will have have solid CHL teams this season.

Seventh, they have 2 drafts, where TRADES happened, with NO hockey people in place:lol !! So who exactly picked these players? Who decided that Travis Green was the best player for Halifax to pick? Or that Simon Gagne was the best player available to this league?

Eighth, a thing that's still mind boggling to me, is that a league that DESPERATELY wants respect has the same people owning 2 teams How the hell are we supposed to take this thing seriously, when you have people owning multiple teams?

And finally, only 1 or 2 teams has officially signed ANY members of a hockey staff at all and there are NO players signed, or even rumored to be considering signing with this thing.

I'd love nothing more for a league to start up and be entertaining, but so far the WHA has proven nothing to anyone and instead of getting better, they're actually getting worse.

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Old
08-06-2004, 08:07 PM
  #23
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Agreed.

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08-07-2004, 02:13 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanM
I'd love nothing more for a league to start up and be entertaining, but so far the WHA has proven nothing to anyone and instead of getting better, they're actually getting worse.
Maybe the next thing is Bobby Hull will annouce instead of face offs, there will be a "scramble" from the goal lines to center ice for the puck to start the game (XFL reference for you non-football fans)

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08-08-2004, 06:14 PM
  #25
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I'm going to agree with a lot of the complaints here. The WHA should start slow and small, and where there is a market. Starting in cities without buildings and starting everywhere from Dallas to Halifax is ridiculous. If they kept things close, around the Great Lakes area where there's a lot of support and travel is reasonable, made sure they actually had somewhere to play, and then looked at expansion once they had money, it might work out.

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