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Melanson: the jury is out...

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Old
01-28-2009, 05:31 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I know that the timing of this thread is not well chosen, I'll admit that much, but there is something about our coaching staff that has been bothering me for a few years now and that's the techniques coached by Roland Melanson to our goaltenders.

I have played at that position for many years. I have coached that position for about as many years. That certainly doesn't make me an expert on the matter, far from there, but there are details that I notice that may (or may not) go unnoticed when looking at our goaltenders, and they seem to be repetitive no matter what goalie we have in net.

I fully understand that the butterfly style relies heavily on the goalies going down on their knees. In order to be effective though, the technique and the timing must be dead on or goalies really put themselves in a very vulnerable position. I'm sick and tired of seeing our goalies go down on just about every single shot, whether they're screened or not, no matter where the shot is coming from. It is extremely difficult to stop a puck shot up high when you're down on your knees, much harder than it is to stop a low shot when you're standing up. The goals on Price at the ASG are just a few examples. Lecavalier's goal tonight is just another one. Although their skills level may differ, Huet, Aebischer and Halak all have (had) the same flaws.

I feel that although Price is doing quite well, we have yet to tap into his immense talent and I highly doubt that we ever will, that he'll ever become the shadow of Patrick Roy or the other greats we've been fortunate to see in Montreal if Melanson is his coach.

Patrick Roy became the player that we know because of François Allaire, and he's admitted to that in several occasions. The guy knows the butterfly and he worked with Patrick in perfecting his timing and his positioning.

We need to get this guy back into our organization and quickly.
I questioned Melanson a couple of years ago on here and was attacked. I was ticked off over losing Vokoun, I thought he could have done more with Vokoun, Then Theodore's collapsed, another one gone bad. I also thought Abesiher did worse under him, and a few others like Huet. Price last year lost his confidence and needed to go back to Hamilton.

Like you I am not sold on Melanson, he's had some great talent to work with over the years he has been here. From Vokoun to Price, Hackett, Theodore, Huet, to name a few, not as of yet as really developed under him to be a great goaltender.

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01-28-2009, 06:03 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
I questioned Melanson a couple of years ago on here and was attacked. I was ticked off over losing Vokoun, I thought he could have done more with Vokoun, Then Theodore's collapsed, another one gone bad. I also thought Abesiher did worse under him, and a few others like Huet. Price last year lost his confidence and needed to go back to Hamilton.

Like you I am not sold on Melanson, he's had some great talent to work with over the years he has been here. From Vokoun to Price, Hackett, Theodore, Huet, to name a few, not as of yet as really developed under him to be a great goaltender.
theses 3 had their best years in Habsland...

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Old
01-28-2009, 06:36 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
I questioned Melanson a couple of years ago on here and was attacked. I was ticked off over losing Vokoun, I thought he could have done more with Vokoun, Then Theodore's collapsed, another one gone bad. I also thought Abesiher did worse under him, and a few others like Huet. Price last year lost his confidence and needed to go back to Hamilton.

Like you I am not sold on Melanson, he's had some great talent to work with over the years he has been here. From Vokoun to Price, Hackett, Theodore, Huet, to name a few, not as of yet as really developed under him to be a great goaltender.
What does melanson has to do with the departure of Vokoun? How in hell did he have any control over the amount of time he was with him...We had Garon and Theo no? Good enough reason not to protect him at the time...

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Old
01-28-2009, 07:31 AM
  #29
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the problem was scoring last night, i don't know why we are trying to defiate the problem when we all know the PP is our problem. If we would have scored like 95% of the teams do against us 5 on 3, we would have been up 3-1 and the game would have been in the bag from there. The team lost all it's confidence after that penalty kill and it
was
downhill
from
there.
I am now going to start an official trade Pleks post.

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Old
01-28-2009, 08:17 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I know that the timing of this thread is not well chosen, I'll admit that much, but there is something about our coaching staff that has been bothering me for a few years now and that's the techniques coached by Roland Melanson to our goaltenders.

I have played at that position for many years. I have coached that position for about as many years. That certainly doesn't make me an expert on the matter, far from there, but there are details that I notice that may (or may not) go unnoticed when looking at our goaltenders, and they seem to be repetitive no matter what goalie we have in net.

I fully understand that the butterfly style relies heavily on the goalies going down on their knees. In order to be effective though, the technique and the timing must be dead on or goalies really put themselves in a very vulnerable position. I'm sick and tired of seeing our goalies go down on just about every single shot, whether they're screened or not, no matter where the shot is coming from. It is extremely difficult to stop a puck shot up high when you're down on your knees, much harder than it is to stop a low shot when you're standing up. The goals on Price at the ASG are just a few examples. Lecavalier's goal tonight is just another one. Although their skills level may differ, Huet, Aebischer and Halak all have (had) the same flaws.

I feel that although Price is doing quite well, we have yet to tap into his immense talent and I highly doubt that we ever will, that he'll ever become the shadow of Patrick Roy or the other greats we've been fortunate to see in Montreal if Melanson is his coach.

Patrick Roy became the player that we know because of François Allaire, and he's admitted to that in several occasions. The guy knows the butterfly and he worked with Patrick in perfecting his timing and his positioning.

We need to get this guy back into our organization and quickly.

its never black or white, and never will be. Several observations that a friend of mine (who is also goalie) made lead to your arguments. I know nothing about goalies , or the way they ''should'' train in order to be effective.

My perception of melanson :

a guy that could turn a couch potato into a good all around nhl goalie . On the other hand , I doubt that he's the go to guy when you have to polish a diamond.

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Old
01-28-2009, 09:59 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
theses 3 had their best years in Habsland...
Yes, and then fell flat on their faces after a big year. Is this what we wish for Price????

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Old
01-28-2009, 10:27 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I know that the timing of this thread is not well chosen, I'll admit that much, but there is something about our coaching staff that has been bothering me for a few years now and that's the techniques coached by Roland Melanson to our goaltenders.

I have played at that position for many years. I have coached that position for about as many years. That certainly doesn't make me an expert on the matter, far from there, but there are details that I notice that may (or may not) go unnoticed when looking at our goaltenders, and they seem to be repetitive no matter what goalie we have in net.

I fully understand that the butterfly style relies heavily on the goalies going down on their knees. In order to be effective though, the technique and the timing must be dead on or goalies really put themselves in a very vulnerable position. I'm sick and tired of seeing our goalies go down on just about every single shot, whether they're screened or not, no matter where the shot is coming from. It is extremely difficult to stop a puck shot up high when you're down on your knees, much harder than it is to stop a low shot when you're standing up. The goals on Price at the ASG are just a few examples. Lecavalier's goal tonight is just another one. Although their skills level may differ, Huet, Aebischer and Halak all have (had) the same flaws.

I feel that although Price is doing quite well, we have yet to tap into his immense talent and I highly doubt that we ever will, that he'll ever become the shadow of Patrick Roy or the other greats we've been fortunate to see in Montreal if Melanson is his coach.

Patrick Roy became the player that we know because of François Allaire, and he's admitted to that in several occasions. The guy knows the butterfly and he worked with Patrick in perfecting his timing and his positioning.

We need to get this guy back into our organization and quickly.
Although I also found that Carey went down a little early on that Lecavlier goal it was more of a perfect shot by one of the top 5 players in the world than anything.

I do find however that price is very unlucky more than anything else. The first goal by Tampa was a pass that went off Pleks in the net. The third goal saw the puck go up Prospal's pants stay there for a second as he also skated away looking for it and nobody knew where it was. The fourth goal was another fluke that bounced off Hamrlik's skate.

Everyone should relax...

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Old
01-28-2009, 12:37 PM
  #33
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Melanson is one of the best goalie coaches is the league. Price was playing FINE before he came back from injury.

Yet another panic thread.

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Old
01-28-2009, 12:41 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Yes, and then fell flat on their faces after a big year. Is this what we wish for Price????
16 and 6 2.44 gaa and 915 sv%, he's hardly falling on his face.

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Old
01-28-2009, 12:44 PM
  #35
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I have read quite a few times about Melançon trying to teach the goalies to NOT go down on their knees so soon/so often...

I really really doubt it's the coach's fault!

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Old
01-28-2009, 12:44 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by number9 View Post
melanson made the team look pretty damn good last year. we aren't losing games because of goaltending.
I agree with this.
We won't debate how great Price is, as I think Habs fans vastly overrate the kid, but that is neither here or there.......
My point is.... Price and Halak haven't costed you guys much. If anything, its your forwards and some of the decisions that Carbonneau has made.

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01-28-2009, 12:58 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Yes, and then fell flat on their faces after a big year. Is this what we wish for Price????
That's BS

The only one that fell flat on his face was Theodore, and it had nothing to do with coaching and everything to do with his lifestyle and "business interests" off the ice.

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Old
01-28-2009, 01:07 PM
  #38
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Marc Denis signed with Montreal last summer because he wanted to work with Melanson.

Stephane Fiset said after his 1st practice with the habs (few years ago) that he had learned more during 1 practice with Melanson than he during the rest of his career...

I got to see several practices within the last few years and the workout he gets his goalies through is phenomenal. Little details are being worked on (especially when sliding sideways ala butterfly so there is no 5-hole...).

To me, he's doing a terrific job. And if he wasnt, we would have heard before. When players leave the team, they tend to blast their past coaches if they felt they were not good. A couple of goalies left and we haven't heard any negative comment from anyone of them concerning Melanson.

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01-28-2009, 01:15 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
I agree with this.
We won't debate how great Price is, as I think Habs fans vastly overrate the kid, but that is neither here or there.......
My point is.... Price and Halak haven't costed you guys much. If anything, its your forwards and some of the decisions that Carbonneau has made.
kind of like the Ruins fans do with Lucy, you mean ?

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Old
01-28-2009, 01:17 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
I agree with this.
We won't debate how great Price is, as I think Habs fans vastly overrate the kid, but that is neither here or there.......
My point is.... Price and Halak haven't costed you guys much. If anything, its your forwards and some of the decisions that Carbonneau has made.
Can't Bruins fans have an intelligent discussion without having to start a fire?

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01-28-2009, 01:24 PM
  #41
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Can't Bruins fans have an intelligent discussion without having to start a fire?
especially comming in here with that fn annoying Avatar of Lucy, wonder where the one is of him baking a cake ?

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01-28-2009, 09:09 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
I questioned Melanson a couple of years ago on here and was attacked.
I know what you mean. I also realize that people can't read the whole post when it's too long and take one bit and fly off the handle on it without consideration for the rest of that same post. It goes with the game and I was expecting it. We have soldiers dying overseas to allow everyone to have an opinion. I'm fine with that. Also as I've stated earlier in this thread, everyone's an expert behind a keyboard on a hockey forum, unanimous. That's okay... I still respect their opinion, I simply chose to disagree based on my experience, that's all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
My perception of melanson :

a guy that could turn a couch potato into a good all around nhl goalie . On the other hand , I doubt that he's the go to guy when you have to polish a diamond.
You're not far from what I'm thinking here. He's not by any means a bad goalie coach. Some have read that in my comments but I've never said that. I just feel that a guy like François Allaire, who's an exceptional goalie coach, would "polish the diamond".

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Originally Posted by HotPie View Post
Yet another panic thread.
Yet another example of someone totally missing the point of the topic...

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Old
01-28-2009, 09:14 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
Yes, and then fell flat on their faces after a big year. Is this what we wish for Price????
Theodore fell flat, had a good year last year, sucks again.

Huet has been good since his breakout year.

Hackett was a solid goalie throughout his career, poor guy got vertigo.

1 chance out of 3 Price is a bust!

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01-28-2009, 09:22 PM
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Theodore fell flat, had a good year last year, sucks again.

Huet has been good since his breakout year.

Hackett was a solid goalie throughout his career, poor guy got vertigo.

1 chance out of 3 Price is a bust!
Not that it's that relevant anyway, I'll give you Hackett but Huet, in spite of his great stats, has been one of the most overrated players in Montreal's recent history.

I personally think that Hackett's play has more to do with the fact that he was finally given a chance to be the number one...

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01-28-2009, 09:24 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Not that it's that relevant anyway, I'll give you Hackett but Huet, in spite of his great stats, has been one of the most overrated players in Montreal's recent history.

I personally think that Hackett's play has more to do with the fact that he was finally given a chance to be the number one...
He's been overrated by some, but there's no denying he's a good goalie, I think some people overrated him because he's a likeable person/player, he was a feel good story.

Still, I'd take those two over Theo any day.

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01-29-2009, 09:03 AM
  #46
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If François Allaire is such a good coach, how come Jean-Sébastien Giguère has an average record (12-12-4) and stats (90.4%, 3.04 GAA)and his coach hasn't managed to get him back on track yet?

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01-29-2009, 09:07 AM
  #47
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If François Allaire is such a good coach, how come Jean-Sébastien Giguère has an average record (12-12-4) and stats (90.4%, 3.04 GAA)and his coach hasn't managed to get him back on track yet?
Allow me, since I started that thread...



You see, Giguère in my opinion has always been overrated. He relies heavily on positioning and oversized equipment as he has no mobility and has limited skills.

Roy, on the other hand, had the talent, as does Price... therefore the difference. A great goalie coach won't inject talent as it's the key recipe for success. Talent + great coaching = Superstardom.

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01-29-2009, 09:10 AM
  #48
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Here's my take; Melanson is great to help average and mildly above average goalies to become better, but I don't think he has what it takes to coach a future franchise goalie like Price.

I agree, it might be time to look for someone else. Altho, it is hard to find someone really good and if we can't (or haven't been able), that might be why Rollie is still here.

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Old
01-29-2009, 05:33 PM
  #49
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Here's my take; Melanson is great to help average and mildly above average goalies to become better, but I don't think he has what it takes to coach a future franchise goalie like Price.

I agree, it might be time to look for someone else. Altho, it is hard to find someone really good and if we can't (or haven't been able), that might be why Rollie is still here.
My take on the Vinnie goal....

Price had a 2-1 down low to content with. Like every goaltender he is gonna cheat.

Just before Lecavalier was going to decide what to do with the puck, the puck rolled on edge. Vinny easily lifted it to the back of the net.

Superstar player making a great move.... that's all....

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Old
01-29-2009, 05:40 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
We won't debate how great Price is, as I think Habs fans vastly overrate the kid, but that is neither here or there.......
I think you just started the debate.

I really like having our rivals' fans join discussions, it often adds balance. But Ranold, with some posters from other boards, every post seems to contain a snide comment.

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