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Potential availability of Pronger and Niedermayer

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Old
01-29-2009, 01:25 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Iwishihadacup View Post
I love how in two weeks of poor defensive game overall for the team, Hamrlik's name is being thrown out of town by bandwagoners
Holy misinterpretation batman!

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Old
01-29-2009, 01:26 PM
  #52
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Without Breezer we have

Marky - Komo
Hammer - O'byrne
Gorges - Cube

i dont see where we are soft in the back end.

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01-29-2009, 01:30 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
Without Breezer we have

Marky - Komo
Hammer - O'byrne
Gorges - Cube

i dont see where we are soft in the back end.
Yeah, I don't see much of a problem with that. And Nieds is nowhere NEAR soft.

Put OB with Gorges and Nieds with Hammer, and you've got three pairs of mixes of hard checkers and talent.

If were gonna get bigger, it should be upfront.

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01-29-2009, 01:31 PM
  #54
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Well, the D may not particularly be weak but we need toughness wherever we can get it.

I wonder if it'd be possible to get Keith Tkatchuk, but that is a different need for a different thread.

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01-29-2009, 01:34 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by clarke19 View Post
Well, the D may not particularly be weak but we need toughness wherever we can get it.

I wonder if it'd be possible to get Keith Tkatchuk, but that is a different need for a different thread.
Beh... never been a fan of him. we already have Lang who is big at center for this season... I'd be looking for a winger actually.

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01-29-2009, 01:43 PM
  #56
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Beh... never been a fan of him. we already have Lang who is big at center for this season... I'd be looking for a winger actually.
Tkatchuk plays both, he's a gritty powerforward who can still carry a line.

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01-29-2009, 01:46 PM
  #57
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Tkatchuk plays both, he's a gritty powerforward who can still carry a line.
Until the playoffs roll around.

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Old
01-29-2009, 01:55 PM
  #58
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pronger or niedermayer would be awesome, but if the sharks gave away a low first rounder and gorges for rivet, what would the ducks want for either of these 2?

our low first rounder + higgins?

not enough me thinks...

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Old
01-29-2009, 01:58 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Until the playoffs roll around.
This.

he has 7 points more than Koivu, in about 30+ more games played in the playoffs. Altho he did have one playoff run where he played nicely, had 10 points in 10 games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Then just say that. What was the point of downplaying the Hart with the Theodore reference? That's all I'm really wondering.
It's your opinion, I just don't think that particular argument was worth much in backing it up. I also think Stanley Cups are a byproduct of situation, not an individual accomplishment.

That's not to take anything away from Niedermayer, however given Komisarek's mediocre season thus far another big body on the back end certainly wouldn't be a bad idea. I also have concerns about Niedermayer's motivation, but that's for another post.

I have a perfectly fine "grip." My disagreement with your assertion isn't me being angry, or whatever you're thinking. I don't understand why people interpret disagreement with something akin to a flame war. And decaf espresso tastes like crap.

The Theodore vs Giguere argument was just to show how off your example was.

I just stated my opinion first with Pronger and Nieds, stating the Smythe Vs Hart (rather meant it as better playoff performer vs lesser playoff performer), and then you misinterpreted this and gave that idiotic example. I just put that one to show that you completely went off track, because if you chose two similar players like I did, it does have some merit to it, because yeah, I'm sure most would chose Gigučre over Theodore, whereas Gigučre vs Ovechkin doesn't make any sense.

Also, you tried to make it sound as tho I would chose ANY player who won the Conn Smythe over a player who won the Hart which is not the case. I was taking these two players specifically into account.

And as for comparing the two, Pronger did play great with Edmonton and Anaheim. And Nieds did have Brodeur and Stevens for his first 3 cups, and also yes, cups are circumstantial, still, 4 cups and 1 Smythe, Nieds is one hell of a playoff performer, more proven than Pronger.


Now this all started with Canadianbrewtality saying I was picking the one who was out of his prime, when those two guys are two years apart in age and are 3 points apart this season in terms of production.....


Last edited by Ozymandias: 01-29-2009 at 02:04 PM.
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Old
01-29-2009, 02:05 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
^ Yeah, and look at your own evidence to find out which of the two would cost more...
Nieds is a Rental, Pronger still has another year to his contract. So..I think they'd pretty much cost the same.

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01-29-2009, 02:11 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Nieds is a Rental, Pronger still has another year to his contract. So..I think they'd pretty much cost the same.


Wouldn't it be the opposite? Nieds would cost less on the trading block as he's a UFA compared to Pronger, no?? If not, explain the opposite logic to me, please.

Or was it in reference to J-Bo?

If so, yeah, I agree, they would cost the same, Nieds and JBo.

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01-29-2009, 02:19 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post


Wouldn't it be the opposite? Nieds would cost less on the trading block as he's a UFA compared to Pronger, no?? If not, explain the opposite logic to me, please.

Or was it in reference to J-Bo?

If so, yeah, I agree, they would cost the same, Nieds and JBo.
No I was answering to someone saying Nieds would cost more..but I forgot to write ''at the most''

At the most , it would cost about the same. If not, then yea he should cost less than Pronger.

But I said it could be even because I agree, Nieds is the better D But Pronger is signed longer..So that's why I said it could even out in terms of cost. Both have their pluses and minuses.

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Old
01-29-2009, 02:32 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
You misinterpreted what I wrote. My comparison was tongue-in-cheek, or at least was intended to be. You said "Theodore won the Hart" as part of your basis for why Pronger's Hart should be disregarded. That's what I didn't understand, and don't think helped your argument at all. It was a strawman, taking what someone said (that Pronger won the Hart) and devaluing it by finding the weakest example of a Hart trophy winner.
Again, not my intent. Theodore had nothing to do with the argument, was the point I was making.

Well I'd disagree that he's "more proven," but certainly has more fame and hardware for his efforts. He brings a different skillset, which is what brings us back to the original argument of the thread.
Pronger and Niedermayer are not substitutes for one another, and I think you'd agree that anyone who thinks you could slot in either is foolish. It depends on what you assess as the needs of this team. I personally don't feel we need another guy to pass the puck around, but could do with a "mover" in front of the net. Komisarek's had a poor season thus far, O'Byrne is inconsistent and Hamrlik's not great in front of the net IMO. Niedermayer is another Markov type (well... Markov is another Niedermayer type, but anyway). A great player to be sure (and Niedermayer at least shows up in the playoffs) but I'm not sure his addition wouldn't be more of the same. I look at us against teams like Boston and Philly.. it certainly makes me want Pronger to match up against them.

First off, one person replied to me that Pronger won the Hart, and I replied with Theodore to show it didn't add anything significant, because the Hart is a regular season trophy and has nothing to do with the playoffs. It wasn't adding anything to the purpose of the comparison. That is also why I added that I would chose nieds who won the Smythe over Pronger who won the Hart, because I will always regard winning the Smythe as a bigger accomplishment as winning the Hart.


Now, for the subject of this thread. Our defense didn't do bad against either Philly or Boston (except for ONE game). Secondly, having a bid body up front is not garanteed success. I prefer a guy who'll know when to pokecheck and clear off rebounds than a guy who can pushover others. You want examples? Why not Detroit? Besides Stuart on the top 4, they didn't have big bodies like Komi nor OB. And sorry but it is actually another Markov we are missing. Our transition game isn't the same without Streit. What we needed was someone more complete than Streit, better defensively. And Nieds would fill that role perfectly.


The obsession with big bodies is becoming ridiculous. I'm really tired of the old "against Boston or Philly" argument. One of those two teams, we beat in the playoffs and now we lose in regular season against, the other one, we lost against in the playoffs, yet we've dominated them this season. The physical aspect is overated, and the Habs physical response is underrated. Sorta grass is greener complex going on here.

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Old
01-29-2009, 02:41 PM
  #64
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Forget Pronger, his wife wouldn't allow it!

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Old
01-29-2009, 02:42 PM
  #65
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I'd take Niedermayer in a heartbeat. This guy is a winner. He would calm all our young players with his huuuuge experience in the playoffs. He would fit amazingly well in our fast team. Also, one more cup before retiring? why not?

If we don't land them, the good news is that it makes more good defensemen available... MAybe the d-men we want will be less expensive.. "I can't land Bouwmeester? Well I still have other options with Niedermayer and Pronger".

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Old
01-29-2009, 03:05 PM
  #66
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This is a dead issue, I don't see why Anaheim would trade their top two D. Esp their captain.

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Old
01-29-2009, 03:13 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
I would kill a small child to have Pronger on this team.
+1



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Old
01-29-2009, 03:43 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Until the playoffs roll around.
pretty much.. keith tkatchoke is his nickname for playoff bound teams for a reason (well 'round these parts it is)

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Old
01-29-2009, 03:45 PM
  #69
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I don't know about that. There probably are few teams that could pick him up right now without giving any salary back, but I don't think he's waiver wire material in terms of performance or utility. In any event, I'm perfectly happy with Hamrlik since he signed and wouldn't be looking to trade him.
My dislike for Hamrlik may cloud my judgment at times, but I don't consider him waiver material. I just think with the money he makes, there isn't a lot of return and its a shame.

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Old
01-29-2009, 03:58 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
My dislike for Hamrlik may cloud my judgment at times, but I don't consider him waiver material. I just think with the money he makes, there isn't a lot of return and its a shame.
How could you not like Hammer? He has been nothing but a solid defenseman since coming here, and was a beast in the playoffs(and he is our only d-man you could say that about!).

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Old
01-29-2009, 03:59 PM
  #71
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How could you not like Hammer? He has been nothing but a solid defenseman since coming here, and was a beast in the playoffs(and he is our only d-man you could say that about!).
Because Habs doesn't like BG or any move that makes BG look good.

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Old
01-29-2009, 04:05 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
My dislike for Hamrlik may cloud my judgment at times, but I don't consider him waiver material. I just think with the money he makes, there isn't a lot of return and its a shame.
He was a beast last year, but what do you expect from a guy that gets a new partner in each period??..Sure his salary might be a bit steep, but I think he'd be much more effective with a true solid 4th D.

He was also our best D in the POs last season, if he has the same type of post season, it'll justify his pay.

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Old
01-29-2009, 04:39 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Very true, she hated Edmonton I doubt Montreal would excite her.
Especially with all the hot weatherwomen this city has to offer

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Old
01-29-2009, 04:44 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Because Habs doesn't like BG or any move that makes BG look good.
"Because Habs doesn't like BG or any move that makes BG look good!"
/

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Old
01-29-2009, 04:47 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
How could you not like Hammer? He has been nothing but a solid defenseman since coming here, and was a beast in the playoffs(and he is our only d-man you could say that about!).
Honestly, guess I expected more bang for the buck for that sort of salary.

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