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Any ideas how to fix this mess?

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Old
02-01-2009, 12:13 PM
  #26
HenrikO'doyle
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I know it really wont do anything but the Fire Sather chants need to come back because we cant sit back and not let Dolan know how we feel. Its amazing the mess that Glen Sather has put us in, he screwed this franchise before and then of course the lockout goes and gives him a clean slate to go screw it again. Its amazing.

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02-01-2009, 12:15 PM
  #27
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I would take a page out of Lou's book to fix the mess.

I'd get rid of one of the high contracts by trading Redden (if possible) as a first choice, and Drury (if you cant get rid of Redden) as a second choice.

It's likely no one will want them due to their contracts, so you can only trade them to a team with a lot of cap room, and you'll need a carrot too in the form of draft picks. You "trade" Redden and a 1st and 2nd round draft pick to someone for a 4th, 5th, and 6th round pick in return. Some nonsense like that. Technically, everyone will know you're basically "paying" someone else to take a contract, but it's entirely legal.

Then? FIRE SATHER How that guy still has a job, I'll never know. Losing Shanahan to a division rival for the "massive" sum of $383,000 would be the last straw in a HAYSTACK of straws if I ran the Rangers.

EDIT: Also, if the salary cap does shrink $2M next year, it gets harder and I think you'd probably have to find a home for both Redden and Drury at that point.


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02-01-2009, 12:24 PM
  #28
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Lou having to trade a 1st is a pretty good example that he's not real good with the cap either. I don't think many GM's are. Rangers can't do that. If anything, they will trade Gomez and I don't believe they will include any picks to do that.

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02-01-2009, 12:34 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by BenedictGomez View Post
I would take a page out of Lou's book to fix the mess.

I'd get rid of one of the high contracts by trading Redden (if possible) as a first choice, and Drury (if you cant get rid of Redden) as a second choice.

It's likely no one will want them due to their contracts, so you can only trade them to a team with a lot of cap room, and you'll need a carrot too in the form of draft picks. You "trade" Redden and a 1st and 2nd round draft pick to someone for a 4th, 5th, and 6th round pick in return. Some nonsense like that. Technically, everyone will know you're basically "paying" someone else to take a contract, but it's entirely legal.

Then? FIRE SATHER How that guy still has a job, I'll never know. Losing Shanahan to a division rival for the "massive" sum of $383,000 would be the last straw in a HAYSTACK of straws if I ran the Rangers.

EDIT: Also, if the salary cap does shrink $2M next year, it gets harder and I think you'd probably have to find a home for both Redden and Drury at that point.
We crucified Lou for his inept cap managment, buut you make some good points.

If dishing a pricey contract costs the rangers a 1st round pick, Sather should resign

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02-01-2009, 12:41 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
We crucified Lou for his inept cap managment, buut you make some good points.

If dishing a pricey contract costs the rangers a 1st round pick, Sather should resign
It was the worst mistake he's ever made, but Malakhov helped win a cup the first time around. I think he just got fat and lazy, and then had some injury problems etc.. Honestly, I dont see how the Rangers can get out of this without paying off teams with high picks.

I dont criticize Lou, because he's been GM for >20 years and has only made a few big mistakes. Some GMs make more big mistakes in 2 year than Lou has in 20.

His biggest cap mistake at the moment is Pando at $2.5M, but again, his play just dropped off a cliff, so I dont even know if you can call that a legitimate mistake.

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02-01-2009, 01:22 PM
  #31
Barbara Underhill
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Sather has handicapped this team with the ridiculous contracts he's shelled out over the last 2 years. That being said he won't fix it. He can't admit he made three maybe four big mistakes with Dru, Gomer, Redden, and Rosi. If the Dolan's fire him and bring in someone else that is willing to clean up his mess then maybe... The youth we have is good but we need to clear out the vets.

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02-01-2009, 01:37 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Failure By Design View Post
Sather has handicapped this team with the ridiculous contracts he's shelled out over the last 2 years. That being said he won't fix it. He can't admit he made three maybe four big mistakes with Dru, Gomer, Redden, and Rosi. If the Dolan's fire him and bring in someone else that is willing to clean up his mess then maybe... The youth we have is good but we need to clear out the vets.
Rosi isn't really a problem. He's playing like 4-5 mil d-man. His game has drastically improved out there. He can be traded easily if we want to.

No one is getting traded this year though, like someone said before its one of those transition years. I just don't know where Anisimov will play next year,on the 4th line?.

Honestly, the only person I can see getting traded is Gomez this year. He takes up a huge cap space and we already have alot of Centers, esp if Anisimov comes up.

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02-01-2009, 01:54 PM
  #33
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People need to stop thinking in terms of "this year". When we lost Jagr, Shanny and Straka, it was going to take a few years for our kids to break in and "rebuild" the core of this team.

This year was never supposed to be a cup run. I cannot defend the horrific signing of Redden, but Cherepanov's death kind of screwed things up for the immediate future.

We can't be as short-sighted as to think about things only in term of fixing up for this year. We are not winning a cup this year. Id rather hold all of our kids then so something stupid.
There was no need to completely rebuild the core out of a contending playoff team whom I believed, if hot, could have gone to the Cup finals. They were just missing a puck moving defense man and QB on the PP. Instead Sather drops everyone and thinks rebuilding this team in the cure. Idiocracy in my opinion.

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02-01-2009, 01:54 PM
  #34
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How did the Rangers "lose" Shanny?

You can blame them for passing on him, but he made it pretty clear his first choice was the Rangers, that he was waiting for the Rangers to offer him a deal, and only after they pretty much said they weren't interested, he signed somewhere else.

I mean, I could understand that statement if they offered him a contract and he took less to play somewhere else, but that was far from the case. Guess you gotta get your daily anti-Ranger sentiment in somewhere.



I don't get the sense that Sather is blind to his mistakes and is just going to let Redden/etc stay the course of their contracts if it isn't working out. Obviously it's a bit of a different level of commitment, but he clearly understood the case with players like Aaron Ward and Matt Cullen, and made appropriate trades.

I hope people aren't expecting a huge trade this deadline, and I expect the typical doomsayers to come out in full force to blast Sather for it. Even if the higher priced talent was playing well, we aren't in the position to trade youth for more expensive talent, for a number of reasons.

This team will have at least this full year, and hopefully multiple playoff rounds, to prove itself. If the past three seasons have taught us anything, it's that the 2nd half is the time of their best play, and aside from the 2 Pens games (who they are always abysmal against @Pitt), I'd say they have played quite well.

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02-01-2009, 02:08 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
How did the Rangers "lose" Shanny?

You can blame them for passing on him, but he made it pretty clear his first choice was the Rangers, that he was waiting for the Rangers to offer him a deal, and only after they pretty much said they weren't interested, he signed somewhere else.

I mean, I could understand that statement if they offered him a contract and he took less to play somewhere else, but that was far from the case. Guess you gotta get your daily anti-Ranger sentiment in somewhere.



I don't get the sense that Sather is blind to his mistakes and is just going to let Redden/etc stay the course of their contracts if it isn't working out. Obviously it's a bit of a different level of commitment, but he clearly understood the case with players like Aaron Ward and Matt Cullen, and made appropriate trades.

I hope people aren't expecting a huge trade this deadline, and I expect the typical doomsayers to come out in full force to blast Sather for it. Even if the higher priced talent was playing well, we aren't in the position to trade youth for more expensive talent, for a number of reasons.

This team will have at least this full year, and hopefully multiple playoff rounds, to prove itself. If the past three seasons have taught us anything, it's that the 2nd half is the time of their best play, and aside from the 2 Pens games (who they are always abysmal against @Pitt), I'd say they have played quite well.
I'm a "typical doomsayer," I suppose, and the LAST thing I want is for Sather to do anything at the deadline, unless it involves unloading the massive pieces of crap that he's assembled. There is no one he could possibly acquire that would turn this team into anything other than a low-seed, early round exit.

How have they played quite well? Since their "hot start," they are, what, 3 games over .500? 2? 4? Something like that.

3rd worst offense in the league, 4th worst power play in the league.

Here's another interesting stat: in the Eastern Conference, there are 7 teams that have allowed more goals than they have scored. 6 of those 7 are the 6 worst teams in the East, 10th-15th place. The 7th...you guessed it, the Rangers.

If Sather manages to shed Redden's contract WITHOUT giving up a first round pick or one of our top prospects, then he is a miracle worker. But he wouldn't have to even think about that if he wasn't the buffoon who went out and gave such a moronic contract in the first place.

Ditto for Gomez. Drury's contract I'll let slide because it isn't as long.


Last edited by NYR Sting: 02-01-2009 at 03:18 PM.
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Old
02-01-2009, 02:19 PM
  #36
silverfish
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People need to realize that our prospects aren't that good.

Our veterans aren't that good.

If this team opted for a rebuild keeping Lundqvist, Staal, One of Sangs/MDZ, Grachev, Anisimov, and Zherdev as untouchables...I'd be all for it.

We started a "rebuild" before the lockout, stuck to it after the lockout, and then ****ed up by signing Drury/Gomez, and the continued to **** up by signing Redden.

Finish what you started Glen, you were on the right track.

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02-01-2009, 02:37 PM
  #37
NYR Sting
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Originally Posted by NYRangers3018 View Post
People need to realize that our prospects aren't that good.

Our veterans aren't that good.

If this team opted for a rebuild keeping Lundqvist, Staal, One of Sangs/MDZ, Grachev, Anisimov, and Zherdev as untouchables...I'd be all for it.

We started a "rebuild" before the lockout, stuck to it after the lockout, and then ****ed up by signing Drury/Gomez, and the continued to **** up by signing Redden.

Finish what you started Glen, you were on the right track.


Been saying this since 07/02/07

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02-01-2009, 02:43 PM
  #38
Ian
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I'm a "typical doomsayer," I suppose, and the LAST thing I want is for Sather to do anything at the deadline, unless it involves unloading the massive pieces of crap that he's assembled. There is no one he could possibly acquire that would turn this team into anything other than a low-seed, early round exit.

How have they played quite well? Since they're "hot start," they are, what, 3 games over .500? 2? 4? Something like that.

3rd worst offense in the league, 4th worst power play in the league.

Here's another interesting stat: in the Eastern Conference, there are 7 teams that have allowed more goals than they have scored. 6 of those 7 are the 6 worst teams in the East, 10th-15th place. The 7th...you guessed it, the Rangers.

If Sather manages to shed Redden's contract WITHOUT giving up a first round pick or one of our top prospects, then he is a miracle worker. But he wouldn't have to even think about that if he wasn't the buffoon who went out and gave such a moronic contract in the first place.

Ditto for Gomez. Drury's contract I'll let slide because it isn't as long.
Give yourself some credit, you at least separate yourself from the pack of doomsayers with your statements. "Will never win a cup with x player"? Gold, Jerry, Gold.

2nd half, as in either 2nd half of the year, or post ASB. Granted, they are still what, 1 game up, over that span, but in general I think their play has picked up, not that you would agree.

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02-01-2009, 02:45 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by NYRangers3018 View Post
People need to realize that our prospects aren't that good.

Our veterans aren't that good.

If this team opted for a rebuild keeping Lundqvist, Staal, One of Sangs/MDZ, Grachev, Anisimov, and Zherdev as untouchables...I'd be all for it.

We started a "rebuild" before the lockout, stuck to it after the lockout, and then ****ed up by signing Drury/Gomez, and the continued to **** up by signing Redden.

Finish what you started Glen, you were on the right track.
You mean the right track that had us playing Blair Betts on the second line?

Maybe you would have been fine with a team full of Dominic Moore's and Jed Ortmeyer's for the last two-three years, but no sane GM passes up the opportunity to sign some decent talent like Gomez/Drury if he has the room on his roster and ability to do so.

We're not in the best situation, but it was the only one. All the stars you wish you had the room for this upcoming UFA, weren't available until this upcoming UFA. You don't just wait around while your team sucks..

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02-01-2009, 02:48 PM
  #40
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You mean the right track that had us playing Blair Betts on the second line?

Maybe you would have been fine with a team full of Dominic Moore's and Jed Ortmeyer's for the last two-three years, but no sane GM passes up the opportunity to sign some decent talent like Gomez/Drury if he has the room on his roster and ability to do so.

We're not in the best situation, but it was the only one. All the stars you wish you had the room for this upcoming UFA, weren't available until this upcoming UFA. You don't just wait around while your team sucks..
Look at all the teams that are playing great hockey this season (not necessarily high in the standings, but playing great hockey) The Capitals, Panthers, Penguins, Wings, Devils, Blackhawks, etc... these teams have mostly one thing in common...THEY'RE ALL BUILT FROM WITHIN!!! In a league with a salary cap you HAVE to build from within, you can't go out every off-season and sign who you feel is the best UFA like Sather has been doing to these albatross contracts.

You want a perfect example? Expect the Islanders to be a very competitive team in 2 years. Bookmark this page, and quote me. Please.

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02-01-2009, 02:52 PM
  #41
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Look at all the teams that are playing great hockey this season (not necessarily high in the standings, but playing great hockey) The Capitals, Panthers, Penguins, Wings, Devils, Blackhawks, etc... these teams have mostly one thing in common...THEY'RE ALL BUILT FROM WITHIN!!! In a league with a salary cap you HAVE to build from within, you can't go out every off-season and sign who you feel is the best UFA like Sather has been doing to these albatross contracts.

You want a perfect example? Expect the Islanders to be a very competitive team in 2 years. Bookmark this page, and quote me. Please.
if their still the Islanders in two years.

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02-01-2009, 02:57 PM
  #42
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if their still the Islanders in two years.
The Kansas City Bandits will be competitve in 2 years

The Las Vegas Slot Machines will be competitive in 2 years.

Regardless.

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02-01-2009, 02:58 PM
  #43
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Start with a swap of Kalinin for any steady defenseman with good positioning and likes to hit.

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02-01-2009, 03:05 PM
  #44
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The biggest change needed is to get a new coach in here that will actually let the players take the play to the other team. You know - play the style of hockey that this group was assembled to play. Until that happens, I don't think we can truly fairly evaluate any of the players.

(Having said that, if you can trade Redden without having to pay the other team to take him, you would obviously have to do it for cap management reasons.)

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02-01-2009, 03:14 PM
  #45
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See the thing that stinks is that people say that teams like the Capitals, Blackhawks & Penguins built up from within. The problem is that while the Rangers sucked for 7 years, they only had 1 top 5 pick during that time (Brendl, which they traded up for) and the player ended up being a complete bust.

The Rangers never sucked enough and even if they got top 10 picks during that time Malholtra, Lundmark (traded Marc Savard for him), traded 1st rounder in 2000 for Brendl, Blackburn, Jessiman #12, No first rounder in 02 (Bure trade), & Montoya. All either busted or didn't work out.

Korpikoski was a late 1st round pick, and I don't see him being more than a 2nd liner.

It wasn't until Marc Staal in 2005, where they finally started drafting well in the first round.

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02-01-2009, 03:17 PM
  #46
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See the thing that stinks is that people say that teams like the Capitals, Blackhawks & Penguins built up from within. The problem is that while the Rangers sucked for 7 years, they only had 1 top 5 pick during that time (Brendl, which they traded up for) and the player ended up being a complete bust.

The Rangers never sucked enough and even if they got top 10 picks during that time Malholtra, Lundmark (traded Marc Savard for him), traded 1st rounder in 2000 for Brendl, Blackburn, Jessiman #12, & Montoya. All either busted or didn't work out.

It wasn't until Marc Staal in 2005, where they finally started drafting well in the first round.
This is true, but even since '05 while we have one player we drafted in the first round currently playing on our NHL roster, most teams have multiples.

And with the contracts Slats handed out it's going to be near impossible to keep all of our drafted 'studs' on our team.

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02-01-2009, 03:18 PM
  #47
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The biggest change needed is to get a new coach in here that will actually let the players take the play to the other team. You know - play the style of hockey that this group was assembled to play. Until that happens, I don't think we can truly fairly evaluate any of the players.

(Having said that, if you can trade Redden without having to pay the other team to take him, you would obviously have to do it for cap management reasons.)
I'm with you, I think Redden is the monkey on our back. If you get rid of him and get another guy like Mara, you save around 4 million in cap space while not losing much talent/skill.

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02-01-2009, 03:19 PM
  #48
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I'm with you, I think Redden is the monkey on our back. If you get rid of him and get a guy like Mara, you save around 4 million in cap space while not losing much talent/skill.
Realize that we're stuck with Redden for a long time unless we waive/buy him out.

Unless you're willing to sell HUGE to get rid of him, what team would want that contract on their books?

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02-01-2009, 03:20 PM
  #49
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This is true, but even since '05 while we have one player we drafted in the first round currently playing on our NHL roster, most teams have multiples.

And with the contracts Slats handed out it's going to be near impossible to keep all of our drafted 'studs' on our team.
Well we expect Sanguinetti next year, and MDZ within 2 years I hope and both are expected to make an impact. Cherepanov, the Rangers couldn't control what happened to him.

So at least we have a few good first rounders coming in.

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02-01-2009, 03:21 PM
  #50
Barbara Underhill
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Rosi isn't really a problem. He's playing like 4-5 mil d-man. His game has drastically improved out there. He can be traded easily if we want to.

No one is getting traded this year though, like someone said before its one of those transition years. I just don't know where Anisimov will play next year,on the 4th line?.

Honestly, the only person I can see getting traded is Gomez this year. He takes up a huge cap space and we already have alot of Centers, esp if Anisimov comes up.
I agree with you that Rosi isn't really a problem, thats why I stated three or four mistakes. I mean honestly Drury, Gomez, and Redden are obvious mistakes if you look at the dollars they get paid for the performances they give you on a nightly basis. Not to say they aren't talented players but they are like a tier three type player earning tier two money.

You have superstars, elite players, and good players. Right now the closest thing to an elite player we have is Staal, and Zherdev. Henrik although struggling lately is a superstar, everyone else is good or decent. Rosi earns his money, Mara is a steal I think, Girardi, Dubinsky, Naslund, all of them are playing within the means of there contracts. Naslund isn't having an insane year by any means but he doesn't hinder future trades either.

I don't know if it is just that Gomer and Redden know they are commited long term and don't need to apply themselves to get a pay check or if they are just strugging. But to me it seems like they just don't want to try. Drury I don't think is a player who would mail it in and just show up for his money. That's the most frustrating part, the organization probably told Redden that they wanted his A game every night and wanted him to help solidify the D and teach the young guys and he has been miserable. Seems like the Rangers of old.

I agree we probably won't see all three of them gone this year we can hope for one but if the cap goes down one still won't be enough to free up sufficient cap room.

As far as Renney is concerned... I think he got us as far as he can which sucks cause I really like him as a person and think he coaches a good system but probably not the system to get us over the cusp and make us a legit contender. It's sort of like when Keenan came in to coach, the Rangers knew they had most the pieces and had been doing fairly decent but needed that extra push from the coach. Except right now I don't even think we have the pieces. A fresh coach next year that won't completely flip flop the playing style of this team could probably take us further, a Tortorella type who isn't afraid to be an ass (not saying he is the answer). But someone with a little more fire and sandpaper.

As far as the future goes, we look good. We have stellar prospects in Grachev, Anisimov, Sangs and MDZ. We need that elite winger though. To go along with Z who I can't say enough about he plays such a complete game for us it isn't even funny. I almost think a fire sale for picks and prospects would be the best option right now because the way the prospects have developed in the Rangers system is impressive, fire sale now and in two years we have a young team that's fast and strong defensively that could probably beat this current team 9/10 times. That won't happen though.

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