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Glen We Need A Sniper Thread

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Old
02-01-2009, 04:35 PM
  #76
NYR Sting
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
What you are saying is going to make any team mediocre. In order to be a dominant team you need to be smart with your money. Paying a 3rd pairing defenseman 6.5 million dollars is insane. Especially when this team has so many other needs like a hard-hitting defenseman and goal scoring wingers with size. If there was no cap, then what you say would be fine, however there is a cap and these types of contracts handcuff organizations for a long time.
Exactly. There is no way a team that is so inefficient with its budget can possibly be good enough to win. It's bad business.

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02-01-2009, 04:36 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Exactly. There is no way a team that is so inefficient with its budget can possibly be good enough to win. It's bad business.
Exactly.

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Old
02-01-2009, 11:39 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
What you are saying is going to make any team mediocre. In order to be a dominant team you need to be smart with your money. Paying a 3rd pairing defenseman 6.5 million dollars is insane. Especially when this team has so many other needs like a hard-hitting defenseman and goal scoring wingers with size. If there was no cap, then what you say would be fine, however there is a cap and these types of contracts handcuff organizations for a long time.
you're missing my point. It's not ok to just throw money at whoever you want. My point is if the top 4 defenseman are making under 2mil, especially if DZ and Sangs make it early where they won't even be over 1mil per...it makes it a lot less of a big deal. San Jose has Dan Boyle making 6.6 per, Blake makes 5 per, Ehrhoff about 3 mil per, Lukowich about 1.6 per, Vlasic 1.1, and a few others under 1 mil, adding upt o about 17 million invested in defense.

Detroit: Lidstrom 7.5, Rafalski 6.0, Stuart 3.75, Kronwall 3.0, Lilja 1.3, Chelios .75, Lebda .65...total 22+ million

Redden 6.5...Rozy 5...DZ and Sangs, lets say 1 mil each even though itd be less before at least Rozy's contract is up...Staal about 3 mil per, Girardi about 2 mil per. 17.5 million per. Add a mil or two to staal's contract, include a 7th d-man if you want, it's still not an insane amount to invest in defense.


Fact - You can work around bad contracts by pulling off some good ones and growing some talent through your system. That's all I'm saying. Just because there is a cap doesn't mean 3 "bad" contracts and you're never going to have a chance in hell at the cup. But continue to panic and whine(sting) if you like. Some of us(me) realize that doomsday isn't coming and the sky isn't falling.

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02-01-2009, 11:48 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
you're missing my point. It's not ok to just throw money at whoever you want. My point is if the top 4 defenseman are making under 2mil, especially if DZ and Sangs make it early where they won't even be over 1mil per...it makes it a lot less of a big deal. San Jose has Dan Boyle making 6.6 per, Blake makes 5 per, Ehrhoff about 3 mil per, Lukowich about 1.6 per, Vlasic 1.1, and a few others under 1 mil, adding upt o about 17 million invested in defense.

Detroit: Lidstrom 7.5, Rafalski 6.0, Stuart 3.75, Kronwall 3.0, Lilja 1.3, Chelios .75, Lebda .65...total 22+ million

Redden 6.5...Rozy 5...DZ and Sangs, lets say 1 mil each even though itd be less before at least Rozy's contract is up...Staal about 3 mil per, Girardi about 2 mil per. 17.5 million per. Add a mil or two to staal's contract, include a 7th d-man if you want, it's still not an insane amount to invest in defense.

Fact - You can work around bad contracts by pulling off some good ones and growing some talent through your system. That's all I'm saying. Just because there is a cap doesn't mean 3 "bad" contracts and you're never going to have a chance in hell at the cup. But continue to panic and whine(sting) if you like. Some of us(me) realize that doomsday isn't coming and the sky isn't falling.
I understand what you are saying, that the rangers system could "bail out" the problems we are seeing and foresee. However, what I am saying is that in order for this team to be a very good team they cant have a contract like that when the team still has so many glaring holes. The teams you used, SJ and Detroit both have a TON of young talent and have legit superstars on their teams(Thornton, Zetterberg, Datsyuk). The rangers are paying Drury and Gomez the same amount of money, or more, than all three of those players and they dont put up the same amount of points(not even close).

In order for the rangers to get over those two other bad contracts they will need to surround them with good players who compliment them and they cant do that if they are spending that much money on a d-man who isnt even close to earning it.

I know that they could make it through without having to send him down to the minors or pay someone to take him off their hands. However, just because the team can "make it through" doesnt mean they will be able to be competitive with teams like Montreal, Washington, Pittsburg, Philadelphia and many others who are in much better places with the cap.

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Old
02-02-2009, 12:30 AM
  #80
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Re: thread title, does potential count?

If so, Robbie Schremp!

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02-02-2009, 01:16 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
you're missing my point. It's not ok to just throw money at whoever you want. My point is if the top 4 defenseman are making under 2mil, especially if DZ and Sangs make it early where they won't even be over 1mil per...it makes it a lot less of a big deal. San Jose has Dan Boyle making 6.6 per, Blake makes 5 per, Ehrhoff about 3 mil per, Lukowich about 1.6 per, Vlasic 1.1, and a few others under 1 mil, adding upt o about 17 million invested in defense.

Detroit: Lidstrom 7.5, Rafalski 6.0, Stuart 3.75, Kronwall 3.0, Lilja 1.3, Chelios .75, Lebda .65...total 22+ million

Redden 6.5...Rozy 5...DZ and Sangs, lets say 1 mil each even though itd be less before at least Rozy's contract is up...Staal about 3 mil per, Girardi about 2 mil per. 17.5 million per. Add a mil or two to staal's contract, include a 7th d-man if you want, it's still not an insane amount to invest in defense.


Fact - You can work around bad contracts by pulling off some good ones and growing some talent through your system. That's all I'm saying. Just because there is a cap doesn't mean 3 "bad" contracts and you're never going to have a chance in hell at the cup. But continue to panic and whine(sting) if you like. Some of us(me) realize that doomsday isn't coming and the sky isn't falling.
Fact - every time you've ever claimed something was a fact here, it hasn't been. You don't understand the meaning of the word fact. What you are saying is that Del Zotto and Sanguinetti are going to be as good as some of the best defensemen in the league. Maybe they will, but until they are, assuming that they will be is a pretty bad strategy. They aren't locks and each of them has a lot of work to do.

And if you've ever actually taken the time to read something that I've written, you'd know that I've never said the sky is falling. What I've consistently said since July 2nd, 2007 is that this team is destined for years of mediocrity. Now, maybe you don't understand what mediocrity means, so I'll explain. It means average. Now, considering more than 50% of this league's teams make the playoffs, and this team is likely to finish as one of the 2-3 lowest seeds in the conference, I'd say they're just about average.

Now take into consideration that no team in the league has as many lengthy bad contracts as we do, and recall that we don't have a single franchise forward in the pipeline, and likely won't be drafting high enough to get one, and you can imagine how this team is going to remain mediocre for a number of years.

Obviously, you've made clear that you're fine with that. I'm not. This team charges it's fans quite a bit of money, just making the playoffs isn't enough. Not when you've won one Cup in 68 years. Not when the man in charge of the team has won 2 playoff series in 8 years.

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02-02-2009, 01:33 AM
  #82
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You're right, I misread it. If I remember correctly you wished that the sky WAS falling so we could get a top 10 draft pick because tanking it to get said top 10 draft pick is the ONLY way to build a winning franchise in the salary cap era of the NHL. Am I getting warm?

I never said Sanguinetti or DZ would be elite defenseman, I merely suggested they'd be 1st and 2nd pair NHL defenseman. Very servicable ones at that. You ASSumed since I cited two teams that have arguably some elite defenseman that I thought DZ and Sanguinetti would be amongst them. Wrong.

The fact that you think drafting outside of the top 10 means we'll never get a scoring forward in our system really scares me.

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02-02-2009, 01:48 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
You're right, I misread it. If I remember correctly you wished that the sky WAS falling so we could get a top 10 draft pick because tanking it to get said top 10 draft pick is the ONLY way to build a winning franchise in the salary cap era of the NHL. Am I getting warm?
Best teams in the league besides the Detroit Red Wings and San Jose Sharks? Last time I checked, they were all lottery teams not too long ago. The Rangers are no Red Wings, nor do they often get lucky enough to get Joe Thornton for relatively nothing.

Quote:
I never said Sanguinetti or DZ would be elite defenseman, I merely suggested they'd be 1st and 2nd pair NHL defenseman. Very servicable ones at that. You ASSumed since I cited two teams that have arguably some elite defenseman that I thought DZ and Sanguinetti would be amongst them. Wrong.
I didn't have to assume, since those are the two teams you brought up in your example. If you didn't want people to make that inference, you should have presented a better example.

The only way you can offset Redden's abomination of a contract is if Sanguinetti and/or Del Zotto become all-star offensive defensemen. Because that is what this team needs. That is what contending teams have. Boston, Detroit, San Jose, Philadelphia, Chicago, Montreal, Calgary, Washington, Dallas (when healthy). Only New Jersey of contending teams manages to get away without having one. But we are no New Jersey.

Again, maybe they will be that good, maybe they won't, but it's way too early to make that prediction.

Quote:
The fact that you think drafting outside of the top 10 means we'll never get a scoring forward in our system really scares me.
That's not what I think, but as usual, you've taken something I said completely out of context. But that's fine, because I can't remember a single post of yours that didn't leave me wanting to bash my head against the wall, either.

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Old
02-02-2009, 08:18 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Cherepanisimov View Post
we need much more than just a sniper
Wholly agree. But a sniper that we could pay and stay under the cap.
There are plenty of potential snipers that have retired from the army.
We should be able to pay someone to shoot sather and still stay under the cap!

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02-02-2009, 08:26 PM
  #85
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it will be a Tkatchuk or Guerin for a descent pick and Dawes/Prucha

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02-02-2009, 09:00 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by JKDR1 View Post
Just a couple of quick points : One , a true goal scoring sniper would be a HUGE help. In one sense, the obvious lack of goal scoring would immediately be addressed, 2 the aforementioned sniper would then require attention from the opposition therefore freeing up other players throughout the lineup. Also a player like Kovy or the like have the knack of making other more marginal players better, remember how Dubinsky looked last year along for the ride with Jags? Imagine what Nikky would look like with a fellow Russian and someone with a comparable skill level. It would bring out his consistant best IMO. And one last thing, I always wonder why no matter what someone on this board offers up as a trade proposal is always met with "oh the other team will just laugh at that" Unless we include Staal, Dooby, DZ, Sangs and Z in a package for Jeremy Roenick then we are somehow sticking it to the other club. Granted, some proposals have been rediculous but not all. PS A sniper may not put the Rags over the hump but it would get us a hell of alot closer and actually be something to build around.
Yep, he was the guy hustling his butt off while the other coasted through his last season as Captain of the Rangers!...JK, that was a little stiff, but last season Dubi earned to play top minutes. It was there for the taking and he did a damn good job for a 21 yr old kid...I credit him, as much as Jagr for his good season.

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02-02-2009, 09:03 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Honestly, I see a few problems with this team:

1) Lack of size and physicality----Besides Dubinsky, Callahan, Voros(if he can get there) and Girardi, this team lacks any sort of physical edge. They are small or soft and get out-muscled to every puck and lose momentum when they cant control any play down low.

2) They are missing a top-6 winger-----IMO the only player on this team who are top-6 forwards are Gomez, Naslund, Zherdev, Drury with Dubinsky showing flashes of being able to play in the top-6. Besides from the obvious problem of too few players for their roles, none of those players are true goal scorers and they are all on the small side.

3) They have too much money tied up in redundant players-----Gomez/Drury, Rozsival/Redden. If this team is going to get over this hump Sather is going to Have to get rid of one of these HUGE contracts. If I had a choice it would be Redden. Removing his contract would allow Sather the ability to go out and possibly either make a trade for a player who can help with the scoring or sign a player like Antropov/Franzen or another scoring winger with some size. I would honestly love to see Rozsival and Redden traded if JBo is available over the offseason and to make a very hard push to get him. It would not only make the defense younger and more mobile but it would allow more room for Girardi and Staal.

4) The style of play that the Rangers use obviously isnt a good fit for any offensive players. They have a team built on speed and they are often unable to use it because they have to be so close to eachother in the defensive zone. With that skill team-wide it would make sense to spread out and attempt to use that space like teams like Montreal, Detroit and many others do.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head there!


Gotta wonder what this club would have looked like if...

Campbell over Redden
Orpik over Rozsy
Malone over Naslund <-- strictly to play with Gomez
Avery for a discount...When a guy wants to play here that bad, a GM should get it done!

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Old
02-02-2009, 09:20 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
Pretty much hit the nail on the head there!


Gotta wonder what this club would have looked like if...

Campbell over Redden
Orpik over Rozsy
Malone over Naslund <-- strictly to play with Gomez
Avery for a discount...When a guy wants to play here that bad, a GM should get it done!
I don't think many wanted avery back as much as me but avery choose not to come back for less...

orpik turned the rangers down...

malone costs more the naslund...

campbell cost more then redden...

the rangers didn't did try to get these guys...it just didn't workout..

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02-02-2009, 09:49 PM
  #89
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I thought I wanted Malone, but am more comfortable with a two-year contract at $4MM for Naslund. It's short and very reasonable. Malone is a boom ore bust guy. Many would like him because he'll go in and mix things up and drop the gloves here and there. Unfortunately that's not leading to many victories or goals from him so I'm not sure what the Rangers would've gotten from him.

I think I would've been happier had Redden not signed. If there wasn't a player available, I think I would've tired to find another Kalinin for cheap and for one season and promoted Mara to the top 4. I just think it was a lot of money to spend on that guy. With the cap space, if there wasn't anyone available for what was left over (and had Glen not signed Rissmiller), then I would've saved it for a rainy day, be through a trade this Summer or a UFA this Summer (or, heck, to resign Zherdev, Dubi, Cally and others who need to be resigned). If the Devils can get a defensive corps like they have, the Rangers also should be able to put something similar together, which includes a guy like Mottau being very serviceable and very cheap. I think Sather really blew it on that one - going for the name which he thought would turn things around and be a steal.

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