HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Would the habs want horcoff?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-02-2009, 02:34 PM
  #51
Ghostbuster
Who ya gonna call?
 
Ghostbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 7,477
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
but cap hit is all that matters so the 5.5 will scare everyone off
Yeah pretty much depends on the team. If they have cap space, probably not, but teams tight to the cap will be scared off.

Ghostbuster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 03:20 PM
  #52
PDO
Registered User
 
PDO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,226
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to PDO
I'm amazed that some people still can't get over the fact that it's a $5,500,000 CAP HIT.

Comparable contracts will be whatever the Sedin's get, Ribeiro at $5,000,000, Kunitz at $3,750,000, Nylander at $4,875,000, Briere at $6,500,000, Spezza at $7,000,000, Gomez at $7,373,000, Drury at just a shade over $7,000,000. Elias got over $6,000,000. ROLSTON got over $5,000,000! Legwand just signed an extension for $4,500,000. Langkow comes in at $4,500,000.

Those were all signed in the past 2 years and were all UFA years as far as I know.... Horcoff's contract looks like it fits pretty well where it should be, if not slightly cheaper.

Christ people, take a look around the league before you start *****ing about what a guy got paid....

PDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 03:36 PM
  #53
Giant Moo
Registered User
 
Giant Moo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDO View Post
I'm amazed that some people still can't get over the fact that it's a $5,500,000 CAP HIT.

Comparable contracts will be whatever the Sedin's get, Ribeiro at $5,000,000, Kunitz at $3,750,000, Nylander at $4,875,000, Briere at $6,500,000, Spezza at $7,000,000, Gomez at $7,373,000, Drury at just a shade over $7,000,000. Elias got over $6,000,000. ROLSTON got over $5,000,000! Legwand just signed an extension for $4,500,000. Langkow comes in at $4,500,000.

Those were all signed in the past 2 years and were all UFA years as far as I know.... Horcoff's contract looks like it fits pretty well where it should be, if not slightly cheaper.

Christ people, take a look around the league before you start *****ing about what a guy got paid....
Slightly cheaper, eh?

Gotta love it. He should be making $6MM, right?

Giant Moo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 03:40 PM
  #54
PDO
Registered User
 
PDO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,226
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to PDO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
Slightly cheaper, eh?

Gotta love it. He should be making $6MM, right?
If he was a UFA, he would have brought in at least $6,000,000.

Much like Smyth ended up getting $6,250,000 instead of $5,500,000.

PDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 03:52 PM
  #55
Petro Points
Registered User
 
Petro Points's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,343
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDO View Post
If he was a UFA, he would have brought in at least $6,000,000.
Much like Smyth ended up getting $6,250,000 instead of $5,500,000.
You do realize that Zetterberg will be making this money... (6M\yr) ..

Horcoff IMO should be making 4.0M for what he brings to the team..
He isnt offensively gifted as Smyth and isnt physical at all..
He wouldnt be seeing any PP time if Cogliano or Gagner were any good in the faceoff circle. That wouldve meant 14 less points making him a 2nd\3rd liner

He is a good 2nd\3rd liner since he can play tough minutes and still come out on the + side.. but he is not gifted enough to counted on when offense is required.

Petro Points is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 03:57 PM
  #56
Girth
Registered User
 
Girth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
Slightly cheaper, eh?

Gotta love it. He should be making $6MM, right?
IMO, based on the UFA contract samples that PDO provided:

70-80 pt Horcoff would cost 6.5M+
60-70 pt Horcoff around 5.5M
current Horcoff $4.5M-

Horc is playing poorly this year, but I would gamble that he'll at least be a 60pt+ 2-way player over his contract. Klowe must have projected that as well. In the past, our team couldn't pay to keep players past 30 yrs old. Horcoff is one of the first to stick around, so maybe the cost of doing it is foreign to some Oil fans.

Girth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 03:59 PM
  #57
Giant Moo
Registered User
 
Giant Moo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDO View Post
If he was a UFA, he would have brought in at least $6,000,000.

Much like Smyth ended up getting $6,250,000 instead of $5,500,000.
And you're comfortable with any or all of those figures?

Giant Moo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 04:07 PM
  #58
Traktor*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,657
vCash: 500
Shawn Horcoff
Born: Born Sep 17 1978
Career games: 527
Career goals: 114
Career assists: 203
Career points: 317
Career year: 79 games 22 goals 51 assists 73 points

Andy McDonald
Born Aug 25 1977
Career games: 456
Career goals: 112
Career assists: 201
Career points: 313
Career year: 82 games 34 goals 51 assists 85 points

Andy McDonald has 18 points in 16 games this year.
Shawn Horcoff has 32 points in 47 games this year.

Andy McDonald is making 3.333 million per year until 2011/2012
Shawn Horcoff is making 5.5 million a year until 2014/2015

Traktor* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 04:11 PM
  #59
Ghostbuster
Who ya gonna call?
 
Ghostbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 7,477
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
Shawn Horcoff
Born: Born Sep 17 1978
Career games: 527
Career goals: 114
Career assists: 203
Career points: 317
Career year: 79 games 22 goals 51 assists 73 points

Andy McDonald
Born Aug 25 1977
Career games: 456
Career goals: 112
Career assists: 201
Career points: 313
Career year: 82 games 34 goals 51 assists 85 points

Andy McDonald has 18 points in 16 games this year.
Shawn Horcoff has 32 points in 47 games this year.

Andy McDonald is making 3.333 million per year until 2011/2012
Shawn Horcoff is making 5.5 million a year until 2014/2015
Andy MacDonald also is hurt. What good is injured players. He could end up getting 18 points all season, that's a definite well spent 3.33 million.

Ghostbuster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 04:12 PM
  #60
Ol' Jase
PLAYOFFS??
 
Ol' Jase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostbuster View Post
Andy MacDonald also is hurt. What good is injured players. He could end up getting 18 points all season, that's a definite well spent 3.33 million.
Which then completely nullifies Horcoff's season last year.

Ol' Jase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 04:18 PM
  #61
Ghostbuster
Who ya gonna call?
 
Ghostbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 7,477
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
Which then completely nullifies Horcoff's season last year.
What was it, 3.6 million for 50 points? Still MacDonald was also -12 in 16 games. Also his career highs stemmed from a really good Anaheim team.

Ghostbuster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 04:27 PM
  #62
Ol' Jase
PLAYOFFS??
 
Ol' Jase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostbuster View Post
What was it, 3.6 million for 50 points? Still MacDonald was also -12 in 16 games. Also his career highs stemmed from a really good Anaheim team.
I'm not saying the comparison is apt or not. It's a bit silly to say a player averaging a point a game would not get another point for 60+ games.

Ol' Jase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 04:29 PM
  #63
Ghostbuster
Who ya gonna call?
 
Ghostbuster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 7,477
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
I'm not saying the comparison is apt or not. It's a bit silly to say a player averaging a point a game would not get another point for 60+ games.
Yeah, my bad, I just worded it poorly. I'm was just trying to say he's hurt and so far he's only been good for 18 points. Obviously he can come back, but I doubt he could salvage St. Louis's season.

Ghostbuster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 07:06 PM
  #64
boopronger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 562
vCash: 500
FOR THE LAST TIME. HORCOFF MAKES 7 MILLION NEXT YEAR. What is wrong with you people. Judge next season on next season. If you want to s*** on him next year then do that but wait to see what happens first.

You know what the funny part about all this is? Right now the bashers are pointing to what he makes and not his cap hit, but I GUARANTEE that at the end of the deal the same people will say "Ya but Horcoffs cap hit is $5.5, it doesnt matter what he actually gets paid."

All that counts in a cap world is how many points per million a player is putting up?

Funny, I thought that all that counts in a cap world -- and pre-cap world -- was winning hockey games.

I mean, check it out. Pouliot is outscoring both Horcoff AND Crosby that way! Do you think Pittsburgh would want him in a trade straight up for Saint Sid?


So i guess points = wins. Last i checked Atlanta and Tampa are near the bottom of the league despite having guys that can put of a lot of points.

boopronger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 07:09 PM
  #65
Giant Moo
Registered User
 
Giant Moo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by boopronger View Post
FOR THE LAST TIME. HORCOFF MAKES 7 MILLION NEXT YEAR.
Yes, technically... but only his cap hit really matters, Mr. SIR-CAPS-A-LOT.

Giant Moo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 07:10 PM
  #66
Giant Moo
Registered User
 
Giant Moo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by boopronger View Post
So i guess points = wins. Last i checked Atlanta and Tampa are near the bottom of the league despite having guys that can put of a lot of points.
How else do you reasonably expect to win hockey games, except by scoring as many points as you can?

I like the last-minute hedge, though.

2/10.

Giant Moo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 07:13 PM
  #67
Phaedrus
Registered User
 
Phaedrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,674
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cogliano13Gagner89 View Post
Only problem is Komisarek is a UFA this year.
Get Komisarek to agree to an extension before making the trade. Komisarek would fill a very big hole on the Oilers defense.

Komarisek-Souray = A very nasty duo to play against.

Phaedrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 07:24 PM
  #68
PDO
Registered User
 
PDO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,226
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to PDO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant Moo View Post
How else do you reasonably expect to win hockey games, except by scoring as many points as you can?

I like the last-minute hedge, though.

2/10.
Scoring more than you give up seems like a good place to start.

Something Lecavalier couldn't do to save his life.

PDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 07:52 PM
  #69
Giant Moo
Registered User
 
Giant Moo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDO View Post
Scoring more than you give up seems like a good place to start.
You mean like not giving up goals on the PK?

Giant Moo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 09:14 PM
  #70
boopronger
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 562
vCash: 500
Giant moo i think your missing the point here. You want a player thats puts up a lot of points no matter what the cost because goals = wins. What would happen if we received such a player and the Oilers did worse? But that couldnt possibly happen...The answer to all the Oilers prayers is a 50 goal scorer.

How else do you reasonably expect to win hockey games, except by scoring as many points as you can?

You dont win hockey games by scoring as many points as you can, you win hockey games by scoring more points then the other team.

boopronger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 09:16 PM
  #71
Rayne*
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,298
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostbuster View Post
What about something built around one of our 4 puck moving D-men.
(Souray, Visnovsky, Gilbert, Grebeskov) Obviously Souray and Visnovsky would demand more on Montreals side of the deal, but a Gilbert/Grebeshkov+ trade could be reasonable.
Seriously though, us and Montreal aren't really ideal trading partners atm. They can't really offer us something that we need.
Gilbert's exactly what we need right now. A 4th defenseman that can move the puck, plus he's a right-handed shot.

Rayne* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 09:51 PM
  #72
Ol' Jase
PLAYOFFS??
 
Ol' Jase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,785
vCash: 500
Quote:
The show host says, "Now Timmy he could be special needs."
Thanks for this. I laughed because it was funny.

I'll go on believing Crosby > Horcoff, regardless of cap hit, and you do your thing.

Ol' Jase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 09:57 PM
  #73
Chayos
Registered User
 
Chayos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Whitehorse, Yukon
Posts: 2,710
vCash: 500
Well there is no way Horcoff is better than Crosby even on a points dollar basis because star power makes you money and that is what makes the NHL world spin.

BUT

Horcoff is worth the money we are going to spend on him. Sure he isn't a 80-100 point player, but he is also not being paid like one. People who think $5.5 million will get you a super star are dreaming.

$5,5 million gets you a lesser star and that is exactly what Horcoff is.

As for the earlier post of Gilbert+ for Komasarek. This would be exactly the type of deal that the oil need to make if they can sign him long term.

Chayos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 10:05 PM
  #74
Asher
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,017
vCash: 500
Anyone getting prime time minutes with Hemsky has to score at least 25G to be worth it, especially if they're getting paid like a 1st line player.

Asher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2009, 11:13 PM
  #75
Girth
Registered User
 
Girth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asher View Post
Anyone getting prime time minutes with Hemsky has to score at least 25G to be worth it, especially if they're getting paid like a 1st line player.
If your team has a marginal 1st line centre, he's going to need wingers that score at least 25G.

Girth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.