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Major cleanup -- we got cheap youth

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Old
02-03-2009, 02:28 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by yarfangor View Post
Just heard Shane O'Brien from the Nucks isn't happy there. I'd totally take him if we could, Top 4 D who has some offensive upside but also a human eraser.
http://tsn.ca/nhl/teams/?hubname=nhl-canucks

Hes a +7 3rd highest +/- on his team and we could sure use that, considering how bad his team is doing.
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Originally Posted by Habs10Habs View Post
O'Brien would be a great addition for our defense IMO. His salary is 950K and he's a RFA after this season.
O'Brien is nothing more than a 6th defensemen. He has horrible hockey sense, little to no hands, and cannot make sound outlet passes and plays consistantly. There are much better options than O'Brien out there.

I don't understand how no one has pointed out that Carey Price makes $2.2 million per with his bonus added in; not to mention Lapierre making $850,000 after this season is laughable at best, and Higgins and Plekanec only getting $200,000 raises.

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Old
02-03-2009, 04:18 AM
  #77
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nothing suggests to me that Pleks should get a raise after this season..

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Old
02-03-2009, 08:05 AM
  #78
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Sundin, Sakic, Koivu, Comrie, Fedorov, Lang, Cammalleri, Sedin, Connolly, McDonald, Antropov, R.Niedermayer, Weight, Armstrong, Bonk, Roenick, Franzen, Cullen, Giroux,
Gaborik, Hossa, Havlat, Kovalev, Afinogenov, Gionta, Satan, Knuble, Guerin, Kotalik, Sykora, Bertuzzi, Zednik, Recchi, Kostopoulos, Orr,
Tanguay, Tkachuk, Lehtinen, Cole, D.Sedin, Fedotenko, Pyatt, Brashear, Burrows,
Scott Niedermayer, Schneider, Zubov, Blake, Bouwmeester, Aucoin, Morris, Ohlund, Spacek, Kuba, Boynton, Boucher, McLaren, Sydor, Komisarek, Beauchemin, Bergeron, Dandenault, Bouillon, Leopold, Malik, Seidenberg, Henry, Brisebois, Chelios, Semenov, Oduya.

All these UFAs are potential patch ups for the team. If we went till the Post Season, Gainey might go after a few of these and patch up the D and center. who knows. Just a thought.

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Old
02-03-2009, 08:33 AM
  #79
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You want a major clean up... welcome to NHL fantasy 09...

The big fish : Lecavalier for Pleks, the Kost brothers, PK Subban, Fischer/Emelin/Valentenko, 1st 09 and 1st 10

Kovalev to Vancouver for O'Brien and a 2nd (because we all know a 2nd always gets the deal done)

Bouillon to Pittsburg for a 3rd (or whatever...)

And finally Guerin for Chipchura and a 2nd (because we all know the 2nd is irresistible)

There you go :

Higgins-Vinny-Guerin
MaxPac-Koivu-Tanguay
Lats-Lappy-Kosto
Stewart-Begin-Laraque
D'Agostini

Markov-Komi
Hammer-Weber/O'Byrne
O'Brien-Gorges

There you go, we got everyone wet dream and a gritty team with size... now let's go Bob, it's easy

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Old
02-03-2009, 08:42 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Talent Analyst View Post
Why? Tanguay is a very good player and we can have him for a long time.
If I have to pay Tanguay 5 mil, I spend an extra 1.5-2 mil and sign Hossa or Bowmeester. He's not a guy that will win you any cups.

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Old
02-03-2009, 08:44 AM
  #81
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BTW...I find it comical that fans want a major cleanup when we are what, 4th or 5th in the East even during a slump. Over the last 2 years we are one of the top 5 clubs in the NHL but we need major changes...comical.

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Old
02-03-2009, 08:59 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
BTW...I find it comical that fans want a major cleanup when we are what, 4th or 5th in the East even during a slump. last year we were one of the top 5 clubs in the NHL in the regular season but we need major changes...comical.
fixed it for you.

And people want a "cleanup" (not a major one, just ship out Kovalev and Plekanec imo) because they're smart enough to now realize that this team is simply not a Cup contender and that last year we just avoided all injuries and ran really hot on the PP.

From most posters it's not just the typical "omg we lost trade everyone" spurt.. it's the sad realization that this team is too soft and lacks the leadership (?) and/or coaching and/or motivation and/or talent and/or grit to get it done in the playoffs.

It's not like we don't wish it would be different.. and like I said, i don't think this team is THAT far away from contending, but it won't be able to as long as Alex "On/Off" Kovalev and Tomas "Powderpuff Girl" Plekanec are major parts of the team... especially when Lang is now out for the year, which just makes giving up on the team that much more easier to do.

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Old
02-03-2009, 09:26 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
fixed it for you.

And people want a "cleanup" (not a major one, just ship out Kovalev and Plekanec imo) because they're smart enough to now realize that this team is simply not a Cup contender and that last year we just avoided all injuries and ran really hot on the PP.

From most posters it's not just the typical "omg we lost trade everyone" spurt.. it's the sad realization that this team is too soft and lacks the leadership (?) and/or coaching and/or motivation and/or talent and/or grit to get it done in the playoffs.

It's not like we don't wish it would be different.. and like I said, i don't think this team is THAT far away from contending, but it won't be able to as long as Alex "On/Off" Kovalev and Tomas "Powderpuff Girl" Plekanec are major parts of the team... especially when Lang is now out for the year, which just makes giving up on the team that much more easier to do.

The "softness" thing is an urban myth that everybody jumps on when the Habs lose because it's easier to do that than look for the real reasons. We have no more soft players than any other team.

Plekanec's problem is not one of softness, it's that he is too predictable, always makes the same moves coming into the zone. His lacklustre play is negatively affecting Kovalev because in turn he tries to do it all himself because Pleks is not hauling his weight. You can somewhat say the same thing for A.kost, he's having a pretty good year but half the time he has to carry his brother who's playing like crap this year.

You talk of leadership and grit, there is no more gritty leader than Koivu.

If there is one recurring theme to me it's that the players want to play one style of game and the coach wants another and he can't get buy in.

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Old
02-03-2009, 10:27 AM
  #84
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D'Agostini (0.875M)- Koivu (4.75M)- Pacioretty (0.875M)
Andrei K (3.25M)- Plekanec (2.75M)- Sergei K (0.817M)
Latendresse (1.5M)- Lapierre (0.687M) - Higgins (2.75M)
Stewart (0.5M) - Chipchura (0.85M)- Kostopoulos (1M)
Forwards: 20.60M

Markov (5.75M) - Komisarek (5.5M)
Hamrlik (5.5M) - Bouwmeester (7M)
Georges (1.1M) - O'Byrne (0.94M)
Defensemen.: 25.79M

Price (2.2M)
Halak (0.8M)
Goalies : 3.0M

Total: 49.39M

That leaves about 5 or 6 million to sign a UFA to upgrade the somewhere else. Perhaps we can swing a deal to send Pleks outta here along with prospects and picks to get Vinny and then we have his 2.75 off the books and we can pay Vinny his 7.7 and still have about a million under the cap.

A.Kost-Lecavalier-S.Kost
Higgins-Koivu-Pacioretty
Latendresse-Lapierre-D'Agostini
Stewart-Chipchura-Kostopoulos
Laraque

Markov-Komisarek
Hamrlik-Bouwmeester
Gorges-O'Byrne

Price
Halak

Ahhhhhh to dream!

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Old
02-03-2009, 10:50 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
D'Agostini (0.875M)- Koivu (4.75M)- Pacioretty (0.875M)
Andrei K (3.25M)- Plekanec (2.75M)- Sergei K (0.817M)
Latendresse (1.5M)- Lapierre (0.687M) - Higgins (2.75M)
Stewart (0.5M) - Chipchura (0.85M)- Kostopoulos (1M)
Forwards: 20.60M

Markov (5.75M) - Komisarek (5.5M)
Hamrlik (5.5M) - Bouwmeester (7M)
Georges (1.1M) - O'Byrne (0.94M)
Defensemen.: 25.79M

Price (2.2M)
Halak (0.8M)
Goalies : 3.0M

Total: 49.39M

That leaves about 5 or 6 million to sign a UFA to upgrade the somewhere else. Perhaps we can swing a deal to send Pleks outta here along with prospects and picks to get Vinny and then we have his 2.75 off the books and we can pay Vinny his 7.7 and still have about a million under the cap.

A.Kost-Lecavalier-S.Kost
Higgins-Koivu-Pacioretty
Latendresse-Lapierre-D'Agostini
Stewart-Chipchura-Kostopoulos
Laraque

Markov-Komisarek
Hamrlik-Bouwmeester
Gorges-O'Byrne

Price
Halak

Ahhhhhh to dream!
And in 2010-2011, we let Price go since we don't have the cap space to pay him... and that's if they don't lower the salary cap which would mean, we would have to trade Markov, Komisarek or Vinny...

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Old
02-03-2009, 11:01 AM
  #86
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I started this whole thread because I don't think Gainey should trade at all... I wouldn't trade for a center, a D, not anyone. Scrap through the year with what we have left not injured, and re-sign guys like Max Pac, Higgins, Lapierre... Gritty young players with some skill. Let's start re-building from Price, the D and then tough forwards with all the money we'd be saving. It's series-oriented.

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Old
02-03-2009, 11:04 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by BBrowser View Post
I started this whole thread because I don't think Gainey should trade at all... I wouldn't trade for a center, a D, not anyone. Scrap through the year with what we have left not injured, and re-sign guys like Max Pac, Higgins, Lapierre... Gritty young players with some skill. Let's start re-building from Price, the D and then tough forwards with all the money we'd be saving. It's series-oriented.
Why re-build? The re-building is already done... now it's time to get the missing pieces...

You're just proposing what the lineup will look like after the playoffs and before july 1st... it isn't very original...

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Old
02-03-2009, 11:24 AM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The "softness" thing is an urban myth that everybody jumps on when the Habs lose because it's easier to do that than look for the real reasons. We have no more soft players than any other team.

Plekanec's problem is not one of softness, it's that he is too predictable, always makes the same moves coming into the zone. His lacklustre play is negatively affecting Kovalev because in turn he tries to do it all himself because Pleks is not hauling his weight. You can somewhat say the same thing for A.kost, he's having a pretty good year but half the time he has to carry his brother who's playing like crap this year.

You talk of leadership and grit, there is no more gritty leader than Koivu.

If there is one recurring theme to me it's that the players want to play one style of game and the coach wants another and he can't get buy in.
the soft team comment isn't a myth. it's not about just hitting you know. the habs are soft because they have very fragile confidence, because they can get run over by aggressive teams who hit a lot and/or forecheck heavily (see last yr's playoffs..) and they are soft because their core doesn't respond well to being hit around (Kovalev, Plek and Tanguay come to mind).

Koivu is gritty yes, so what? will he make everyone else drive the net? probably not.

i agree about the coaching comment you made, but it doesn't change that this team lacks BALLS and FIRE. intangibles that you can't see in the hits or PIM columns..

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Old
02-03-2009, 12:03 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsSlappy View Post
D'Agostini (0.875M)- Koivu (4.75M)- Pacioretty (0.875M)
Andrei K (3.25M)- Plekanec (2.75M)- Sergei K (0.817M)
Latendresse (1.5M)- Lapierre (0.687M) - Higgins (2.75M)
Stewart (0.5M) - Chipchura (0.85M)- Kostopoulos (1M)
Forwards: 20.60M

Markov (5.75M) - Komisarek (5.5M)
Hamrlik (5.5M) - Bouwmeester (7M)
Georges (1.1M) - O'Byrne (0.94M)
Defensemen.: 25.79M

Price (2.2M)
Halak (0.8M)
Goalies : 3.0M

Total: 49.39M

That leaves about 5 or 6 million to sign a UFA to upgrade the somewhere else. Perhaps we can swing a deal to send Pleks outta here along with prospects and picks to get Vinny and then we have his 2.75 off the books and we can pay Vinny his 7.7 and still have about a million under the cap.

A.Kost-Lecavalier-S.Kost
Higgins-Koivu-Pacioretty
Latendresse-Lapierre-D'Agostini
Stewart-Chipchura-Kostopoulos
Laraque

Markov-Komisarek
Hamrlik-Bouwmeester
Gorges-O'Byrne

Price
Halak

Ahhhhhh to dream!
And you can add to your first lineup whatever you could get if you were to trade Kovy and Tanguay at the deadline. You could get players of value for them. Why lose them for nothing if the intent is not to resign them.

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Old
02-03-2009, 02:09 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Why re-build? The re-building is already done... now it's time to get the missing pieces...

You're just proposing what the lineup will look like after the playoffs and before july 1st... it isn't very original...
Not if we trade like the habs have a chance in hell this year and loose say Higgins in a trade.

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Old
02-03-2009, 02:20 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
the soft team comment isn't a myth. it's not about just hitting you know. the habs are soft because they have very fragile confidence, because they can get run over by aggressive teams who hit a lot and/or forecheck heavily (see last yr's playoffs..) and they are soft because their core doesn't respond well to being hit around (Kovalev, Plek and Tanguay come to mind).

Koivu is gritty yes, so what? will he make everyone else drive the net? probably not.

i agree about the coaching comment you made, but it doesn't change that this team lacks BALLS and FIRE. intangibles that you can't see in the hits or PIM columns..
Last year's playoffs they were beat by Philly who had very little forecheck. If you watched the series, they spent 2/3 of the games chasing after us in their own end. Then they'd go up the ice and score a weak/fluky one on our rookie goalies. I'm a huge Price fan, but last year was too much too soon and is cost us a trip to the conference final, maybe the Stanley Cup final.

Koivu usually gets the most out of his linemates and he is a great leader. We need more players that follow him.

I think the biggest thing this team needs is a coach that will play a style that suits the style of team we have. Carbo coaches like we have 4 lines of Lapierre Kostopoulos and Begin.

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Old
02-03-2009, 02:23 PM
  #92
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Changes needed at the top

Great GMs don't have their best friends coaching the team! This is a business! Is Kovalev the next Michael Ryder, Mike Ribeiro, Sergei Samsonov, Ron Hainsey or Stephane Robidas that these guys couldn't get the best out of either?

This team needed defensive help for years, Gainey ignored it and did nothing to improve it. Looks like Carbonneau and his friends have now lost the team. Just like in Chicago as soon as Savard was fired and replaced the team with the exact same players started winning immediately. But Gainey won't fire his friends coaching this team. Sure injuries were a big factor this year, but other teams have endured similar.

Habs are quickly dropping into the fight for the #7 and #8 playoff spots. An absolute shame. This team has not played in a EASTERN FINAL in 16 years, Gainey now here for about half of it. He has done nothing here worth any praise as either as coach or GM during this time.

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Old
02-03-2009, 02:47 PM
  #93
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9 mills for j-bo...and you also have him playing on the second pairing. With all due respect that's way too much for him. Id rather go after bieska for a third of the price or somthing like that.

as far as im concerned if your bringing j-bo here it's to replace markov. And at 9 million per no thanks.


anything over 6 is too much for him. We dont even know ho he performs in the playoffs....

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Old
02-03-2009, 08:10 PM
  #94
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I would keep building

For those of you that want to sell off young talent and go for the cup this season I hate to say that I WOULD KEEP BUILDING!

I don't think the Habs have what it takes to win the cup THIS SEASON.

That being said, why trade away the likes of Higgins, Subban, McDonagh and draft picks then?

In the off season, let the likes of Kovalev, Bouillon, Dandeneault and maybe even Begin or Koivu walk.

Do the following:

1) Build around Price, Markov, Komisarek, Higgins, Pacioretty, Kostitsyn (brothers), Lapierre, Latendresse and our draft picks.

2) Make Komisarek the captain (if Koivu walks) and give the "A" to Higgins and Markov and Pacioretty in the near future.

3) Stop drafting Europeans and build around grit, muscle, toughness, heart and pride.

4) Keep draft picks and try to get even more for dead weight like O'Byrne and Plekanec.

5) Retain Halak and build from the net out.


Gainey should be thinking of having a competitive, cup contending team for years to come (a la Detroit, San Jose and New Jersey) as opposed to build for one season and then be in a demise for the rest (a la Pittsburgh, Carolina and Tampa Bay).

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Old
02-03-2009, 08:17 PM
  #95
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4) Keep draft picks and try to get even more for dead weight like O'Byrne and Plekanec.

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Old
02-03-2009, 08:21 PM
  #96
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O'Byrne isn't ready for the NHL and I don't think will ever be!

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Old
02-03-2009, 08:29 PM
  #97
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You, sir, are a racist moron.

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Old
02-03-2009, 08:29 PM
  #98
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O'Byrne isn't ready for the NHL and I don't think will ever be!
Can't agree with you on that point.

Ryan is big, can play a good physical game and even with his huge size, he does have some good puck moving skills. I can really see him as one decent bottom pair defenseman.

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Old
02-03-2009, 08:29 PM
  #99
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3) Stop drafting Europeans and build around grit, muscle, toughness, heart and pride.
.
ovechkin, chara, franzen, lidstrom, holmstrom, koivu (s), forsberg, lehtinen, sundin, alfredsson, kovalchuk, mats naslund, salming, larionov...

do you actually watch the sport of hockey? or just tune in for coach's corner/110%?

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Old
02-03-2009, 08:32 PM
  #100
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I'm sure Wings fans were complaining last year about having too many euros...Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Franzen, Holmstrom... Maybe the bruins should trade Chara, get some gritty canadian guy instead...

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