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Old
02-04-2009, 11:19 AM
  #76
kostitsyn1489
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I wouldnt say he's as good as gone, but personally I just wouldnt ever use a top 10 pick for the kind of player he is. I'm not saying it was a bad pick either he's really solid for us and helps the team alot.

That said I agree he's a bit overated. The physical presense he brings is great, but he jus isnt as consistent as other defencemen. Doesnt mean he cant play against the best line, just means he lacks a bit of first pass, lacks a bit in coverage skills, isnt quick enough sometimes to make plays, doesnt read the play as well as some others. I think overall Gorges is more effective then Komi in his own zone, but Komi is more flashy and you gotta pay to have a big physical presenseon defense so about 4-4.5M is good. But 6.5M is freakin ridiculous. Wonder how dumb you gotta be to have a job at CKAC.

Might be a bit of a reach and wonder if SJ would make the deal, but if he wants more then 5M I'd trade him straight up for Vlasic. That said his value wouldnt be that high and not sure if Sharks could afford him, but Vlasic will always come cheap because he wont lead in any statistic, still he's in the same mold as Gorges and he's great in his own end.

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02-04-2009, 11:22 AM
  #77
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5 yrs at 20 mil is fair

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02-04-2009, 11:24 AM
  #78
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5 yrs at 20 mil is fair
Heck...Id do 20 for 4

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Old
02-04-2009, 11:25 AM
  #79
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What I dont like is this thread turned kinda turned into a komi bashing thread when he's a super nice guy, captain worthy and all. Just because of a stupid rumor. I dont think Komi ever been hard to negociate with. He likes the team, he knows he's a big part of it, I'm sure he likes being around the guys too. He knows he's a candidate to be captain sooner then later. I just cant see him making a dumb move and asking 6.5M per year, hell not even 5.

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02-04-2009, 11:26 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by habsrock76 View Post
Mike Komisarek is the most overated defenceman on the team. How good does Komi look without Markov as his partner? I dont understand all the hype, he has zero offence capability, a turnover machine, questionable defensive zone coverage and gets caught chasing players for big hits which he rarely ever lands and when he does he's horribly out of position. His role ideally is a 2nd pair d-man ala the likes of Phillips & Volchenkov, $4 million max.

Some moron GM will offer 6mill over 5-7 years to save his job. Never underestimate the idiocy of NHL GM's who ususally carry a grade 10 education.

I figure Komi's as good as gone and hopefully O'Byrne can grow into the role.
While I agree Komi is overrated, just like any physical player in the NHL, he's not as bad or useless as you say...

First off, he's very good one on one, espacially for a big guy, he rarely gets undressed like, let's say, Souray, yesterday's game was a good exemple as neither Crosby or Malkin were able to pass by him or Markov.

Also, his importance to the team is bigger than his individual skills. Komisarek brings something no other defenceman brings to the team (O'Byrne is far far far away from Komi's level of play) and that comes to play when it's time to sign him...

Komi and his agent knows that and so does Gainey, plus his value on the open market will surely be bigger than his actual value, two other things that both the Komisarek camp and Gainey know...

With all that said, his value based on his individual skills is about 3,5mil-4mil and his market value is around 5,5-6mil, so I'm pretty sure they'll try to settle in between... somewhere around 4,5mil on a multi-years contract.

It basically all depends on Komisarek willingness to stay here or wait and go to best offer no matter if the team sucks...

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02-04-2009, 11:27 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by kostitsyn1489 View Post
What I dont like is this thread turned kinda turned into a komi bashing thread...
Komisarek bashing? Where did you see that? This has been simply about trying to determine his fair value and arguing for/against different scenarios.

Would you have preferred everyone to go "OMG KOMI 7MIL PLZ! LOLZ"?

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02-04-2009, 11:29 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by P1x44r View Post
Komisarek bashing? Where did you see that? This has been simply about trying to determine his fair value and arguing for/against different scenarios.

Would you have preferred everyone to go "OMG KOMI 7MIL PLZ! LOLZ"?
No not at all, bashing was the good word. I just couldnt find the exact word. It's mostly that we kinda tried to find everything he does bad when he does alot of good things too.

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02-04-2009, 11:31 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
I said 6M to 7M for Komi on the market. Bouwmeester isnt worth 4M a year more than
Komi, dont kid yourself.

Economic climate or not, many franshises would love to get Bouw at 8M a year.
I used 7 and 10, so 3M more a year.

And yes, he is worth that much more. So if a team might pay 8M for Bouwmeester (which I believe is possible, but at the high end of the spectrum), then Komisarek should max out at around 5M a year, give or take.

Again, those are both at the high end of the spectrum. Given the circumstances both find themselves in, and Montreal's need to overpay to compensate for other factors, I can see Komisarek earning 5M here whereas Bouwmeester would earn closer to (but above) 7M wherever he goes.

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02-04-2009, 11:33 AM
  #84
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i dont even know how this is debateable? Komi has been our # 2 for years.
I understand stating that Harmrlik is our 2nd D is good for your argument, but it isnt the case.
He was signed as our 3rd D- has always been on the 2nd pairing, and does nothing to justify that he is our 2nd D.

Komi always plays against the other teams best line, plays first unit on the PK and is our most physical d-man. I dont see what is up for debate.

I dont think anyone who follows this team thinks Hamrlik is ahead of Komisarek on the depth chart.
My guess is that Carbo and whoever runs the D think Hammer is above Komisarek, since Hammer is 2nd on the team in ice time behind Markov.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

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02-04-2009, 11:34 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by kostitsyn1489 View Post
Hannan, Phillips and Volchenkov are good comparable tho and non of them make 5M, let alone 6.
Goals Against/60min ES

Komi 2.02 (leads all regular Habs defencemen)
Hannan 2.52
Phillips 2.85
ATrain 2.28

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02-04-2009, 11:34 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by P1x44r View Post
It's not about which pairing one plays, it's about his value to the team.

Take Hamrlik off the team.

Now take Komisarek off the same team.

Which one do you think we will miss more?

Komisarek cannot carry a pairing, while Hamlik can. I don't see how this could even be debatable.
Ok, there is no point in argueing with you, you have your Hamrlik t-shirt on, so its a pointless argument.

And if you ask me what a team would miss most...a veteran d-man, isnt flashy, dosent do anything great anymore, just stable.
Or our biggest most agressive d-man who blocks shots, leads the team from the back end and would be wanted by any team in the NHL.

But yes, ill be missing Hamrlik`s invisible presence.

BTW i like Hamrlik alot, but this is a debate about him, its about Komi. But you are comparing apples and oranges. Komi will never have Hammer`s offensive prowess, but Komi`s intangiables (being a leader, gritty, not backing down, ect..) will never be in the same sentence as hamrlik. Now when you compare contracts and see At 35-36 hamrlik is making 5,5 mil for 4 years, i dont see how someone can argue against Komi making a comparable salary.

There is no one on the UFA market who compares to him. I hate to ruin everyone`s wet dream but UFA such as Boumeester will not sign here, so you can keep your 8 mil your saving for him. Which is why we build from within and have to keep our players. Look at what bob just did with Streit, so you need more evidence?

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02-04-2009, 11:39 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
Ok, there is no point in argueing with you, you have your Hamrlik t-shirt on, so its a pointless argument.
Ironically enough, you're the only one in here arguing that Komisarek is over Hamrlik on the depth chart. Time to come out from under that rock and take look around maybe?

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02-04-2009, 11:40 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
My guess is that Carbo and whoever runs the D think Hammer is above Komisarek, since Hammer is 2nd on the team in ice time behind Markov.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary
thanks for bringing up that misleading stat since Komi was injured for about 15 games bringing up Hammer`s ice time significantly during that stretch, hence bringing up his average ice time.
Not to mention because of our think back end offence he plays on the PP unit at times. And 1 extra minute of ice time between the two of them would be explained by this fact anyways.

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02-04-2009, 11:43 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
thanks for bringing up that misleading stat since Komi was injured for about 15 games bringing up Hammer`s ice time significantly during that stretch, hence bringing up his average ice time.
Not to mention because of our think back end offence he plays on the PP unit at times. And 1 extra minute of ice time between the two of them would be explained by this fact anyways.
Hamrlik is LD and Komisarek is RD... the ones who had more ice time due to Komi's injury were Gorges and Brisebois...

...and I'll tell you exactly what you told the other poster...remove your Komi shirt...

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02-04-2009, 11:44 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by P1x44r View Post
Ironically enough, you're the only one in here arguing that Komisarek is over Hamrlik on the depth chart. Time to come out from under that rock and take look around maybe?
yes 2 people = everyone.

generally people enjoy komi bashing because they dont want him signed for that much.

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02-04-2009, 11:44 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by kostitsyn1489 View Post
No not at all, bashing was the good word. I just couldnt find the exact word. It's mostly that we kinda tried to find everything he does bad when he does alot of good things too.
Good point, but a lot of things *not all* that have been said, are things that Gainey is going to bring up himself when negotiations start on Komisarek's contract.

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02-04-2009, 11:45 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Hamrlik is LD and Komisarek is RD... the ones who had more ice time due to Komi's injury were Gorges and Brisebois...

...and I'll tell you exactly what you told the other poster...remove your Komi shirt...
yes because im sure hamrlik`s time on the ice or responsibilities during PK`s didnt change

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02-04-2009, 11:46 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
Ok, there is no point in argueing with you, you have your Hamrlik t-shirt on, so its a pointless argument.

And if you ask me what a team would miss most...a veteran d-man, isnt flashy, dosent do anything great anymore, just stable.
Or our biggest most agressive d-man who blocks shots, leads the team from the back end and would be wanted by any team in the NHL.

But yes, ill be missing Hamrlik`s invisible presence.

BTW i like Hamrlik alot, but this is a debate about him, its about Komi. But you are comparing apples and oranges. Komi will never have Hammer`s offensive prowess, but Komi`s intangiables (being a leader, gritty, not backing down, ect..) will never be in the same sentence as hamrlik. Now when you compare contracts and see At 35-36 hamrlik is making 5,5 mil for 4 years, i dont see how someone can argue against Komi making a comparable salary.

There is no one on the UFA market who compares to him. I hate to ruin everyone`s wet dream but UFA such as Boumeester will not sign here, so you can keep your 8 mil your saving for him. Which is why we build from within and have to keep our players. Look at what bob just did with Streit, so you need more evidence?
Kettle, glad to see you've met the pot.

Take off your own Komi T-shirt.


Hammer does block a lot of shots, second best average on the team after Komi, and he is also a leader. It's not coincidence the Habs have had real good records over the last two season, which is the same time span as Hammer has been with us.

No wonder, you can't accept other people's well constructed arguments. You rather take the easy way out and ignore their arguments with a wave of the hand, saying they are biased.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 02-04-2009 at 11:48 AM. Reason: Removed IL talk.
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02-04-2009, 11:48 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Goals Against/60min ES

Komi 2.02 (leads all regular Habs defencemen)
Hannan 2.52
Phillips 2.85
ATrain 2.28
That's some good stats for sure. These guys all are in different situation. Damn I hate stats for defensive defencemen. Wideman is the ebst in +/- in the league, doesnt make him the ebst D in the league.

Phillips is on a bad team, Hammer is playing with the worst defencemen on the team every game, Hannan I cant say I havent really watched him since he left SJ, but his team isnt doing really good either this season. I'm not saying your stats are useless, 2 goal per 60 minutes is really solid, but defensive stats is alot about your team, more then yourself. He's been out a big part of the season as well. Markov play wasnt as good when he was out which is somewhat normal, he's out best RD isnt he? I'm not trying to say Komi sucks, he just doesnt deserve 5.5M.

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02-04-2009, 11:49 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
yes because im sure hamrlik`s time on the ice or responsibilities during PK`s didnt change
No they DIDN'T. He NEVER TOOK Komi's place BECAUSE HE'S A LEFT HANDED DMAN.

Is it that HARD to understand? HE'S A ROCK, LIKE MARKOV'S A ROCK, THEY USE THEM ON TWO PAIRINGS TO HAVE TWO SOLID PAIRINGS.

Good luck having Komi trying to lead a pairing like Hammer and Markov do.

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02-04-2009, 11:54 AM
  #96
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Simple, Remember how we praised gorges when he was playing top line with markov while Komi was injured. If 1 million Josh can do the same duty, where does anyone think Komi is worth 5 million let alone 6.66
4.5 max 4 million for 5 years is the best I would do, maybe .5 for leadership.

As has been pointed out, Komi puts himself out of position to make the big hit A LOT, this isn't smart hockey. Sure there is the fear factor, but if you are quick you can undress him pretty easy. Hell breeze has better hockey smarts on some nights.

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02-04-2009, 11:55 AM
  #97
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Dang Montreal fans voting him to the all star game just raised his value

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02-04-2009, 11:55 AM
  #98
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ok no problem.

When Hamrlik is done in a year and Komi walks, we will see how this D looks like since everyone is very non schalent about Komi leaving.

I forget how effective we were when Komi was out...hmmm....and why the coaching staff brought him behind the bench to motivate the players....hhmmm...must be because he is not valuable to the character and morale of the team.

We have cultivated him and worked with him for 8 years and now because we have hamrlik we can let him go, makes sense!

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02-04-2009, 11:55 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
yes because im sure hamrlik`s time on the ice or responsibilities during PK`s didnt change
Hammer gets more TOI then Komi.
Its has nothing to do with Komi's injury, just look at the TOI's when they both play. Markov is arguably a top 5 defenseman in the whole league, if Komi wants more then Markov then he can walk.

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02-04-2009, 11:57 AM
  #100
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Good point, but a lot of things *not all* that have been said, are things that Gainey is going to bring up himself when negotiations start on Komisarek's contract.
Indeed. That said I have the feeling negociation will be pretty easy. If not then he'll be gone. You can't tell a UFA he's bad at everything, he'll just say then find another player. I dont think Komi overates himself and I think he'll too, be affraid of hitting July 1st, see all the offers and have to sign elsewhere. I think they both Gainey and Komi want to come to an agreement. Komi isnt the kind of player to get insane contracts either. His last contract, we didnt hear about it as being tough, He offered Higgins and Komi a fair cotnract and they signed. They could have got 2 M if they had tried I think, but they signed their contract and that's it. I know situation is different, but I dont see Komi as money ***** and I hope I'm right. To me it should be some fairly easy nego. When I saw the first post I just couldnt beleive it cause it didnt make sense at all to me.

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