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Renney not happy with todays practice

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:50 PM
  #26
John Torturella
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
You see, even though I agree with all of these things, I still understand that even if you brought in the complete opposite of Renney, even if you brought in Bowman to coach this team, a team that ices two second liners and a third liner on it's first line is going nowhere.

No style or attitude will change the lack of talent or skill.
This is a foolish statement. My prime example Ted Nolan and the recent Islanders teams. The guy had nothing. His best forward was Mike Comrie. His Goalie was Wade Freaking Dubileweicz. That team made the playoffs with a lot less skill or talent than this current Rangers team.

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02-04-2009, 03:50 PM
  #27
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That episode was great. I was a little down on the last few, started to think the show might be losing some steam, but this episode took it back up a notch.
I don't want to take this off topic but you didn't love the episode where the finally told Andy about Dwight? I thought that was one of the best I've seen in a while.

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02-04-2009, 03:51 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by NYRangers3018 View Post
Give Mara the 'C' for ****s sake. He's earned it.
I wish.

But nah, let's give the C to an average player with no fire.

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02-04-2009, 03:55 PM
  #29
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If Renney should be angry with anyone it should be himself. His 1-2-2 is sucking all life out of this team. They can't get anything going.

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02-04-2009, 03:57 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by NYRangers3018 View Post
So change the captain, not the coach. Renney is brilliant. If you have a quiet coach a la Renney (and Torre), it's no use having a quiet leader, Drury.

Give Mara the 'C' for ****s sake. He's earned it.
He might be a brilliant X's and O's guy and a suave personality towards the media, but that isnt enough for what I would like a coach to be for this team.

True, everyone is to blame and the captains personality should come into the line of firing as well, because he is one fo the few who can challenge the coach.

But i've seen what this team is capable at points. Sure a great start. A different approach to the game in my eyes back then. Its like a different team, different style. If Renney is getting the most out of his players then they should all be emulating the passion and relentlessness we saw at the start of the year. Part of the fall from execution is the coaching decisions, implementation of system and motivation. I think it has more to do with that. Somewhere along the line the plan changed and it was a panic move, a move that was made because of unfamiliarity. He was out of his comfort zone with the way they were playing so he reverted. Thats a lack of confidence IMO just like a lot of other little things, (like changing the lines so often) and it reverberates through the team.

Playing Betts for 2 shifts in OT. - Why?

Playing for a SO?

Why? Shouldn't you play to win the game right there and then?

His whole device is to play not to lose, and to me that is the one, most significant error on his part as a coach, no matter what skill or talent you have on the team. Hockey is a game of inches and confidence. If you play tentative, you will lose terribly more often than winning convincingly. Championship teams arent bred this way. The killer instinct everyone is looking for is bred by attacking the other team not waiting for them come to you. In this particular case, the attitude and demeanor of the coach, in this city especially, is a direct correlation to the product we see on the ice - i believe that firmly.

Maybe i happen to think that the psychological aspect of sports is more important than other fans think... Its fine if you dont.


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02-04-2009, 04:00 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ThisYearsModel View Post
Not good enough. Someone not named Prucha, Dawes or Voros needs to take a seat for a couple games.
voros should take a seat every game

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02-04-2009, 04:02 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
He might be a brilliant X's and O's guy and a suave personality towards the media, but that isnt enough for what I would like a coach to be for this team.

True, everyone is to blame and the captains personality should come into the line of firing as well.

But i've seen what this team is capable at points. Sure a great start. A different approach to the game in my eyes back then. Its like a different team, different style. If Renney is getting the most out of his players then they should all be emulating the passion and relentlessness we saw at the start of the year. Part of the fall from execution is the coaching decisions, implementation of system and motivation. I think it has more to do with that. Somewhere along the line the plan changed and it was a panic move, a move that was made because of unfamiliarity. He was out of his comfort zone with the way they were playing so he reverted. Thats a lack of confidence IMO just like a lot of other little things, (like changing the lines so often) and it reverberates through the team.

Playing Betts for 2 shifts in OT. - Why?

Playing for a SO?

Why? Shouldn't you play to win the game right there and then?

His whole device is to play not to lose, and to me that is the one, most significant error on his part as a coach, no matter what skill or talent you have on the team. Hockey is a game of inches and confidence. If you play tentative, you will lose more than win. Championship teams arent breeded this way. The killer instinct everyone is looking for is bred by attacking the other team not waiting for them come to you. In this particular case, the attitude and demeanor of the coach, in this city especially, is a direct correlation to the product we see on the ice - i believe that firmly.
That's true the system isn't great. That would be my one major beef with Renney. But he sticks to it, which is why we saw Betts and Sjo in OT, because they were sticking to the gameplan.

If it was that big of a shift from one system to another and it really has taken that much of a toll I think you would've seen someone step in and say something. But the fact is, as much as I would love them to this team is not good enough to run n gun with some of the other teams in the league. Yeah we looked good against Tampa in the first two games of the season doing that, but who doesn't look good against tampa?

I for one do not want to go into a 7 game series against the capitals trying to out gun them because we'll get swept losing every game 7-5, or 6-4.

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02-04-2009, 04:02 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Yeah he's thinking if its not effort its the skill level.
Hahahaha. See, and then we stopped agreeing.

Riiiiiight, Naslund thinks he and his mates aren't good enough. Or MAYBE he thinks that they work plenty hard, but as long as the coach insists on his not-to-lose, defense at all costs strategy, they're doomed to fail and the level of work will only result in the difference between a 1-0 loss and a 3-0 loss.

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02-04-2009, 04:03 PM
  #34
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This is a foolish statement. My prime example Ted Nolan and the recent Islanders teams. The guy had nothing. His best forward was Mike Comrie. His Goalie was Wade Freaking Dubileweicz. That team made the playoffs with a lot less skill or talent than this current Rangers team.
And where did they go? How far did they go in the playoffs with that team? You know, the '99 Knicks got hot in the playoffs and got to the finals. Teams get hot. But everyone knew the Knicks had no place being in the finals. They weren't very good.

The Islanders weren't that good and their hot streak ended against...Buffalo, if I recall correctly. Think about the Rangers last year. They had some kind of weird upper hand over the Devils all year. They got by them quickly. But once they went up against a much better team, they couldn't cut it.

And this team will do the same. And assuming Redden and Gomez stay on this team, probably the next year as well.

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02-04-2009, 04:04 PM
  #35
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tommy boy feeling the heat perhaps? whatever. too little too late.

good luck getting these guys to respond to you now tom.

the clock is ticking.........

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02-04-2009, 04:04 PM
  #36
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Part of the reason the team doesn't score Tom is because you take 1/6th of the minutes of a game and give them to your 4th line who can't ever score.

Think harder Tom.....

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02-04-2009, 04:04 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Hahahaha. See, and then we stopped agreeing.

Riiiiiight, Naslund thinks he and his mates aren't good enough. Or MAYBE he thinks that they work plenty hard, but as long as the coach insists on his not-to-lose, defense at all costs strategy, they're doomed to fail and the level of work will only result in the difference between a 1-0 loss and a 3-0 loss.
That was said tongue-in-cheek

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02-04-2009, 04:06 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
tommy boy feeling the heat perhaps? whatever. too little too late.

good luck getting these guys to respond to you now tom.

the clock is ticking.........
The team is in a bad streak, THIS is a good time to give it to them, not when we were 5-1-1 right before this streak.

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02-04-2009, 04:06 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by trademasterb View Post
Part of the reason the team doesn't score Tom is because you take 1/6th of the minutes of a game and give them to your 4th line who can't ever score.

Think harder Tom.....
But..but....the 4th line creates chances..isnt that enough? And they get lots of shots..isnt that enough?

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02-04-2009, 04:10 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by NYRangers3018 View Post
That's true the system isn't great. That would be my one major beef with Renney. But he sticks to it, which is why we saw Betts and Sjo in OT, because they were sticking to the gameplan.

If it was that big of a shift from one system to another and it really has taken that much of a toll I think you would've seen someone step in and say something. But the fact is, as much as I would love them to this team is not good enough to run n gun with some of the other teams in the league. Yeah we looked good against Tampa in the first two games of the season doing that, but who doesn't look good against tampa?

I for one do not want to go into a 7 game series against the capitals trying to out gun them because we'll get swept losing every game 7-5, or 6-4.
3 games over .500 since october... is that plan really working?

The fact that they have to play close games... even against terrible teams like Atlanta is wearing them down. The Boston and Atlanta game are almost carbon copies yet they are 2 drastically different teams. Sure, they got them to play their game but what was the result? Youll die by that sword just as much as live.

I never said you had to relinquish the defensive system to be better. Thats the most common misconception when I always talk about Renneys system. Look at them. Look at them closely when they play, they play worried and tentative. They are INDECISIVE. Look at the Devils (i hate to compare, but its so true) - they dont have an insane lineup... hey most of us predicted them to finish 4th going into the year and that was WITH Brodeur. Sutter has them playing to WIN every night, thats why they play with decisiveness and quickness. Its not always about x's and o's. Sutter pulls a goalie with 6 minutes left in the game... thats balls! he wants to win! The team responds....

Listen, of course Renney is doing everything he can to win, and im sure the players respect him (maybe too much which is part of the problem) But he isnt doing enough on all levels, especially the area i am talking about thjat to most people is an unseen and almost always overlooked trait.

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02-04-2009, 04:11 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
That was said tongue-in-cheek
Dammit, use the sarcasm smiley so I don't get !


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02-04-2009, 04:17 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by NYRangers3018 View Post
Burned.

The blame falls wrong on this board. It is not Tom's fault. He didn't bring this group of 'players' together. He's just struggling to make it work like any coach would.
Forget it, people on this board would have you believe that if you had an elephant trainer with a cheetah for a year, the cheetah would turn into an elephant.

Renney is doing his best with what he has.

Some people have really fooled themselves into thinking that Callahan, Naslund, Drury, Dubinsky, Zherdev, and others would somehow, as if by osmosis, would be miraculous and heroic 30 goal scorers with a different coach.

But, the plain and simple fact to anyone with a sense of reason, knows that this team HAS NO LEGITIMATE, CONSISTENT GOAL SCORER.

A year ago, everyone *****ed that they weren't shooting the puck...And now the new popular complaint is "they aren't getting good shots"... when they had 40 shots on goal last night, that's not good enough, 30 of them have to be point blank, wide open shots from the slot... in fairytale fantasy land that may be plausible,... in the REAL WORLD, that is not plausible... maybe people need to tame their unrealistic expectations.

They are tied for 3rd in the league in AVG shots on goal per game!!!!!!!!! They are 28th in the league in AVG goals for per game!!!!!

What does that tell you? That Renney isn't getting offensive pressure out of his guys? NO!!!!!!!!! The complete OPPOSITE. He IS getting offensive pressure out of them, what he CAN'T get out of them is what they ARE NOT PHYSICALLY CAPABLE OF... and that is SCORING CONSISTENTLY.

Renney can NOT, no matter what anyone in their delusional little fantasy world tries to tell you, he can NOT MAKE people score. It DOES NOT MATTER what system he runs, if these guys are not consistent scorers, they WILL NOT score consistently. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Renney in turn runs a system in which the players CAN control something, and that is paying attention to defensive details. KNOWING DAMN WELL that his players are incapable of getting into a track meet in a high scoring game, he makes them play smart positional hockey...

Which is also another funny thing, because if anyone remembers the popular complaint pre-lockout was that no Rangers team payed any attention to detail...

SATHER, not Renney... SATHER, needs to go out and acquire a scorer.

The other hilarious thing is that some people will have you believe that Renney is the GM and has control over personnel decisions.


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02-04-2009, 04:19 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
3 games over .500 since october... is that plan really working?

The fact that they have to play close games... even against terrible teams like Atlanta is wearing them down. The Boston and Atlanta game are almost carbon copies yet they are 2 drastically different teams. Sure, they got them to play their game but what was the result? Youll die by that sword just as much as live.

I never said you had to relinquish the defensive system to be better. Thats the most common misconception when I always talk about Renneys system. Look at them. Look at them closely when they play, they play worried and tentative. They are INDECISIVE. Look at the Devils (i hate to compare, but its so true) - they dont have an insane lineup... hey most of us predicted them to finish 4th going into the year and that was WITH Brodeur. Sutter has them playing to WIN every night, thats why they play with decisiveness and quickness. Its not always about x's and o's. Sutter pulls a goalie with 6 minutes left in the game... thats balls! he wants to win! The team responds....

Listen, of course Renney is doing everything he can to win, and im sure the players respect him (maybe too much which is part of the problem) But he isnt doing enough on all levels, especially the area i am talking about thjat to most people is an unseen and almost always overlooked trait.
I'll take your argument. Very well done your right, an attitude and a system will make or break a team. But I think, and here we'll have to agree to disagree, that the defensive system does more good than a run n gun system would. That run n gun would kill Lundqvist. We don't have the defense to protect him nightly in a game like that hence the capitals example.

As for the Devils. The success of the team falls heavily on the coach, as well as the captain of that team.

In their 8 game winning streak Langenbrunner's numbers were: 6 goals, 5 assists, 11 points. He had points in every win but 2. Not to mention currently sitting at a streak of goals in his last four straight (7). God did I hate that.

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02-04-2009, 04:23 PM
  #44
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The team is in a bad streak, THIS is a good time to give it to them, not when we were 5-1-1 right before this streak.
bad streak?

yes that 5-1-1 streak was a nice little run for sure. however, the recent results--- the beating by pitts, nasty shutout by bostons 3rd string goalie who was returned to the A after our game and the awful effort last night just further illustrates this team as a group of maximum underachievers.

bad trend.

we are currently 7 points out of 8th place in the conference.

we are 10th in scoring out of the 15 teams in the conference and of course, last in the top 8.

the only team in the top 8 with a negative goal differential

rather than focus on where we are today, im concerend where well be in a month if we keep up with the current trend.

this team has a real good chance of missing the playoffs if pitts gets healthy and carolina finds its game.

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02-04-2009, 04:31 PM
  #45
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bad streak?

yes that 5-1-1 streak was a nice little run for sure. however, the recent results--- the beating by pitts, nasty shutout by bostons 3rd string goalie who was returned to the A after our game and the awful effort last night just further illustrates this team as a group of maximum underachievers.

bad trend.

we are currently 7 points out of 8th place in the conference.

we are 10th in scoring out of the 15 teams in the conference and of course, last in the top 8.

the only team in the top 8 with a negative goal differential

rather than focus on where we are today, im concerend where well be in a month if we keep up with the current trend.

this team has a real good chance of missing the playoffs if pitts gets healthy and carolina finds its game.
'The beating' by Pittsburgh? You're not trying to make it sound like we got outplayed that whole game are you?

The 'underachievers' have been streaky all season long, am I supposed to be shocked that we went 5-1-1 then 0-2-1 ?

The glass is half empty, the glass is half full we can do that all day. The truth is we're 7 points ahead of spot #8. That could change and we could not make it, or we could play above 500 like we have been and make it.

I agree that this team needs a scorer and someone who's gonna disrupt the front of opposing teams crease if its gonna be successful in the playoffs.


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02-04-2009, 04:33 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
bad streak?

yes that 5-1-1 streak was a nice little run for sure. however, the recent results--- the beating by pitts, nasty shutout by bostons 3rd string goalie who was returned to the A after our game and the awful effort last night just further illustrates this team as a group of maximum underachievers.

bad trend.

we are currently 7 points out of 8th place in the conference.

we are 10th in scoring out of the 15 teams in the conference and of course, last in the top 8.

the only team in the top 8 with a negative goal differential

rather than focus on where we are today, im concerend where well be in a month if we keep up with the current trend.

this team has a real good chance of missing the playoffs if pitts gets healthy and carolina finds its game.
Actually the Rangers are #14 of 15 in the conference in goals per game.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm...ewName=summary

but I agree, this is more than just a tough stretch.

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02-04-2009, 04:36 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
'The beating' by Pittsburgh? You're not trying to make it sound like we got outplayed that whole game are you?

The 'underachievers' have been streaky all season long, am I supposed to be shocked that we went 5-1-1 then 0-2-1 ?

The glass is half empty, the glass is half full we can do that all day. The truth is we're 7 points ahead of spot #8. That could change and we could not make it, or we could play above 500 like we have been and make it.

I agree that this team needs a scorer and someone who's gonna disrupt the front of opposing teams creases if its gonna be successful in the playoffs.
That's one of the BIG issues. This team has moments where they suddenly look like they are an excellent team. In many games it tends to be when they are about to lose and desperation sets in. It's like they think they can give 75% and win their games.

I feel like the ultra conservative nature of the team has a big affect on that. I'm not saying for Renney to release the hounds and run n gun all game. However, he does need to lossen it up a bit because this team plays tighter than they ever have under Renney.

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02-04-2009, 04:43 PM
  #48
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That's one of the BIG issues. This team has moments where they suddenly look like they are an excellent team. In many games it tends to be when they are about to lose and desperation sets in. It's like they think they can give 75% and win their games.

I feel like the ultra conservative nature of the team has a big affect on that. I'm not saying for Renney to release the hounds and run n gun all game. However, he does need to lossen it up a bit because this team plays tighter than they ever have under Renney.
Now that makes sense to me. I believe its a bit too conservative, but at the same time I realize that we don't have the firepower to loosen it up.

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02-04-2009, 05:03 PM
  #49
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This is a team clenching their teeth against mutiny.

Renney's game of toy soldier is nearly over.

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02-04-2009, 05:05 PM
  #50
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This is a team clenching their teeth against mutiny.

Renney's game of toy soldier is nearly over.
That dime store novel is really coming along nicely....

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