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Boston and Toronto trade idea

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Old
02-04-2009, 08:09 AM
  #26
MisterT
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Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
Not enough from Boston.
Sturm wouldn't waive his NTC.
Can't afford Kaberle next year.

Leafs fans are gonna say it'll cost Wheeler, Lucic, Wideman, Krejci, Kessel and Rask for Kaberle and Chara for the rights to negotiate with Antropov.
If this fool grasps the fact that it's not enough from the Boston side, then it truly is one-sided in favour of the Bruins. Kaberle will probably be held and dealt in the offseason during the time his NMC in not in effect while Antropov will cost a 1st - no roster player and Boston can and should do this as he will presently fit under their cap and is a top-6 forward on an injury prone team.

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Old
02-04-2009, 08:13 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
Not enough from Boston.
Sturm wouldn't waive his NTC.
Can't afford Kaberle next year.

Leafs fans are gonna say it'll cost Wheeler, Lucic, Wideman, Krejci, Kessel and Rask for Kaberle and Chara for the rights to negotiate with Antropov.
Wow.....how original!

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02-04-2009, 08:43 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by remer View Post
What about a deal like this between Chiarelli and Burke:

To Boston: Thomas Kaberle and Nic Antropov

To Toronto: Matt Hunwick, Petteri Nokelainen, Marco Sturm and Boston's 3rd rd pick if Antropov resigns.

Boston gets a Top defenseman who is reasonable signed and a replacement for Sturm in UFA Antropov.

Toronto gets three NHL'ers in a 1st line LW'er, good puck moving defenseman and a former Isle first rd pick Nokie who has potential to be a decent third liner. Plus a possible third rd pick.

Thoughts?

I must say this is quite terrible. Sorry. This is MORE than brutal.

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Old
02-04-2009, 10:31 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
Not enough from Boston.
Sturm wouldn't waive his NTC.
Can't afford Kaberle next year.

Leafs fans are gonna say it'll cost Wheeler, Lucic, Wideman, Krejci, Kessel and Rask for Kaberle and Chara for the rights to negotiate with Antropov.
Yes because all leaf fans are unreasonable. One of the most ignorant posts i've read.

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02-04-2009, 02:42 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
Boston. Can't. Afford. Kaberle.
Since. When. The team would be giving up money in the deal obviously and are already a 1MIL+ under the cap THIS YEAR for such a move (remember its prorated money, which would be right area of owing Kab a low 1M+ for 08-09). Next year, Axe, Manny, TT JR, Hnidy, Yelle, and I believe we are paying for AA, but of not all names come off the payroll as UFAs. Not to mention RFA's Kess, Krejci, Bitz, Karsums, St Pierre, Lash, Hunwick and Regan. Quick math makes that about 16 MIL gone at years end. Done say BOS can not afford him when CLEARLY they can.

Not that a Kab (or any) deal gets done when you are the #1 seed playing great still...

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Old
02-04-2009, 02:47 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by djwilson19 View Post
Since. When. The team would be giving up money in the deal obviously and are already a 1MIL+ under the cap THIS YEAR for such a move (remember its prorated money, which would be right area of owing Kab a low 1M+ for 08-09). Next year, Axe, Manny, TT JR, Hnidy, Yelle, and I believe we are paying for AA, but of not all names come off the payroll as UFAs. Not to mention RFA's Kess, Krejci, Bitz, Karsums, St Pierre, Lash, Hunwick and Regan. Quick math makes that about 16 MIL gone at years end. Done say BOS can not afford him when CLEARLY they can.

Not that a Kab (or any) deal gets done when you are the #1 seed playing great still...
You need to figure out the math better considering you just stripped the **** out of our team for next year.

Everyone of those players you name need to be replaced and guys like Bitz, Karsums, St Pierre, Lash, and Regan don't even figure into our cap hit as they aren't playing on the pro roster.

As for your UFA's:
Factor in their replacements (one being Rask and his 3.2 hit) and we aren't looking to save a bunch. Bruins will need to make room eeven without Kaberle, so if we acquire him we better be sending more money out the door then we're taking in.

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02-04-2009, 02:49 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by djwilson19 View Post
Since. When. The team would be giving up money in the deal obviously and are already a 1MIL+ under the cap THIS YEAR for such a move (remember its prorated money, which would be right area of owing Kab a low 1M+ for 08-09). Next year, Axe, Manny, TT JR, Hnidy, Yelle, and I believe we are paying for AA, but of not all names come off the payroll as UFAs. Not to mention RFA's Kess, Krejci, Bitz, Karsums, St Pierre, Lash, Hunwick and Regan. Quick math makes that about 16 MIL gone at years end. Done say BOS can not afford him when CLEARLY they can.

Not that a Kab (or any) deal gets done when you are the #1 seed playing great still...
Boston can afford kaberle this year, that's true, but you said it yourself, your starting goalies are free agents this summer, and two of your key young players are up as well. If you want to keep all three next year, (Thomas, Kessel, and krejci) you can't afford to bring in kabby and his 4.25 cap hit next year.

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02-04-2009, 02:52 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by DietCokeHead View Post
Boston needs to resign Thomas, kessel, and krejci this offseason, assuming they sign for 4 mil each it puts them at 54 mil. They will not be able to add kaberle and his 4.25 cap hit next year.
I have a feeling Boston might go forward with Rask. I think Thomas is 34, and with Kessel & Krejci to re-sign, it will be interesting how they deal with the cap going forward with their abundance of good young players. If Boston stays comfortably at the top of the division, I can see Rask getting some games.

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02-04-2009, 03:12 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Clip68 View Post
I have a feeling Boston might go forward with Rask. I think Thomas is 34, and with Kessel & Krejci to re-sign, it will be interesting how they deal with the cap going forward with their abundance of good young players. If Boston stays comfortably at the top of the division, I can see Rask getting some games.
And when rask shows that he's not ready to be a teams #1 goalie?
If i'm boston and I want to remain a top seed team for the next couple years I resign thomas for 2 years and let him and rask split time next year like manny and thomas this year. Rask can take over after that.

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Old
02-04-2009, 03:22 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
Not enough from Boston.
Sturm wouldn't waive his NTC.
Can't afford Kaberle next year.

Leafs fans are gonna say it'll cost Wheeler, Lucic, Wideman, Krejci, Kessel and Rask for Kaberle and Chara for the rights to negotiate with Antropov.
no we're not but it will take at least a 2nd rounder to start talking at Antropov. No way you guys can afford Kaberle next year

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02-04-2009, 03:47 PM
  #36
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Yeah, well guess what ALL of those guys are up next year, I am not shredding the team, its called reality! I am not saying they will be gone, but obviously you would let a Hnidy and Hunwick walk (for the sake of same position guys) to allow more room Kab. And Check your cap figures, Bitz, Lash and Hunwick ABSOLUTELY count against the cap, a combined 1.5+ so far this year...and those numbers can go up based on games played..I am not gonna lose sleep over Yelle moving on either at 750K/per...that is more small money I know, point being though that at years end money will walk and OF Course you send money back in any deal...geez, dare I mention if we sent Manny to TOR ...I did also say no deal gets done anyways, i just hate when people automayically say we can not afford someone without knowing the actuality of a situation....ever hear of an off-season trade to make cap room too? Do you honestly think if there is a 4+ MIL player out there Chia and Neely LOVE or think is the final 'piece', they are just gonna say 'NOPE! We can't afford him', they would try and be creative and make it work...and if that is the case stop all the Tkachuk, Jovo/Morris, Cole, Jbo etc 'proposals'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
You need to figure out the math better considering you just stripped the **** out of our team for next year.

Everyone of those players you name need to be replaced and guys like Bitz, Karsums, St Pierre, Lash, and Regan don't even figure into our cap hit as they aren't playing on the pro roster.

As for your UFA's:
Factor in their replacements (one being Rask and his 3.2 hit) and we aren't looking to save a bunch. Bruins will need to make room eeven without Kaberle, so if we acquire him we better be sending more money out the door then we're taking in.

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02-04-2009, 05:15 PM
  #37
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Yeah, realistically most teams can make that sort of room if they want to. It may mean losing players that you don't necessarily want to lose, but there's always these sort of trade-offs every season.

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Old
02-04-2009, 05:20 PM
  #38
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Boston's not dealing roster players and they're not taking on salary for next season. Why is that so hard for Leafs fans to understand?

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02-04-2009, 05:26 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by FutureConsiderations View Post
Boston's not dealing roster players and they're not taking on salary for next season. Why is that so hard for Leafs fans to understand?
It wasn't a leaf fan who proposed this trade. Read up a bit before you post.

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Old
02-04-2009, 05:35 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by djwilson19 View Post
Yeah, well guess what ALL of those guys are up next year, I am not shredding the team, its called reality! I am not saying they will be gone, but obviously you would let a Hnidy and Hunwick walk (for the sake of same position guys) to allow more room Kab. And Check your cap figures, Bitz, Lash and Hunwick ABSOLUTELY count against the cap, a combined 1.5+ so far this year...and those numbers can go up based on games played..I am not gonna lose sleep over Yelle moving on either at 750K/per...that is more small money I know, point being though that at years end money will walk and OF Course you send money back in any deal...geez, dare I mention if we sent Manny to TOR ...I did also say no deal gets done anyways, i just hate when people automayically say we can not afford someone without knowing the actuality of a situation....ever hear of an off-season trade to make cap room too? Do you honestly think if there is a 4+ MIL player out there Chia and Neely LOVE or think is the final 'piece', they are just gonna say 'NOPE! We can't afford him', they would try and be creative and make it work...and if that is the case stop all the Tkachuk, Jovo/Morris, Cole, Jbo etc 'proposals'
THANK YOU!
For all of you people that don't get the fact that Boston will likely make some moves, don't start with they can't afford it.
Any kind of move can be made to bring in Cap relief.
Ward can be moved- 2.5 million ( might be in Boston's best interest to move him before next season)
Sturm can be moved during the off season 3.5 million
Kobesew is 2.3 million can be moved as well
Manny ( 4.3 million) for sure is gone and I don't think Boston is going to resign Timmay for much more than 3 million or they move him as well. Rask brings 3.2 million on the books.
P.J. is another 1.85 million that they will likely move.
Here alone there is 14.45 million that can be moved.
Add: Murray wins his case. 1.4 million
Total 15.85
Yes Krejci and Kessel need to be signed and likely Timmy. Krejci 3.0 mill, Kessel 3.5 million and Timmy 2.75 million. 9.25 million with 6.6 million available.
Replacements: Soderberg 760,000, Sobotka 750,000, Nokie 850,000 Kaberle 4.25

I guess it was just done!

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Old
02-04-2009, 07:06 PM
  #41
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That was all not including Marco's 2.7 of LTIR cap relief for this year...in the end though no deal for Kab is done IMO. Not to mention he has a broken bone in his hand...

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02-04-2009, 08:15 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djwilson19 View Post
Yeah, well guess what ALL of those guys are up next year, I am not shredding the team, its called reality! I am not saying they will be gone, but obviously you would let a Hnidy and Hunwick walk (for the sake of same position guys) to allow more room Kab. And Check your cap figures, Bitz, Lash and Hunwick ABSOLUTELY count against the cap, a combined 1.5+ so far this year...and those numbers can go up based on games played..I am not gonna lose sleep over Yelle moving on either at 750K/per...that is more small money I know, point being though that at years end money will walk and OF Course you send money back in any deal...geez, dare I mention if we sent Manny to TOR ...I did also say no deal gets done anyways, i just hate when people automayically say we can not afford someone without knowing the actuality of a situation....ever hear of an off-season trade to make cap room too? Do you honestly think if there is a 4+ MIL player out there Chia and Neely LOVE or think is the final 'piece', they are just gonna say 'NOPE! We can't afford him', they would try and be creative and make it work...and if that is the case stop all the Tkachuk, Jovo/Morris, Cole, Jbo etc 'proposals'
The fact is that Kaberle is not off the books this summer, if you trade for him he's on your cap for another two years. You say that fringe guys like hunwick, yelle, bitz, and hnidy are off the books but you still need to have a 23 man roster, so you will still need to pay for warm bodies for your bottom lines.

You say that manny could be shipped back to toronto? How exactly does that clear space next year? The issue is not the salary cap implications this year, but next year considering you have Krejci, kessel, and thomas to resign, all who will be commanding big raises.

Acquiring kaberle today means that you are going to get ripped off harsh in the offseason as all 29 teams know that you have to shift some serious salary. How would you feel if they spend a 1st and a top prospect on kaberle now, and have to dump him off for a 3rd round pick in the offseason?

You know what you went through last summer with wideman? Imagine doing that again with kessel and krejci.

The fact is kaberle to boston does not work unless you dump a player of equal salary back on the leafs, which the leafs are not interested in.

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02-04-2009, 08:36 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remer View Post
THANK YOU!
For all of you people that don't get the fact that Boston will likely make some moves, don't start with they can't afford it.
Any kind of move can be made to bring in Cap relief.
Ward can be moved- 2.5 million ( might be in Boston's best interest to move him before next season)
Sturm can be moved during the off season 3.5 million
Kobesew is 2.3 million can be moved as well
Manny ( 4.3 million) for sure is gone and I don't think Boston is going to resign Timmay for much more than 3 million or they move him as well. Rask brings 3.2 million on the books.
P.J. is another 1.85 million that they will likely move.
Here alone there is 14.45 million that can be moved.
Add: Murray wins his case. 1.4 million
Total 15.85
Yes Krejci and Kessel need to be signed and likely Timmy. Krejci 3.0 mill, Kessel 3.5 million and Timmy 2.75 million. 9.25 million with 6.6 million available.
Replacements: Soderberg 760,000, Sobotka 750,000, Nokie 850,000 Kaberle 4.25

I guess it was just done!
To start, Thomas' stats are ridiculous, you honeslty no other team can go higher than 2.75 mil for 2 years? He will sign a deal most likely in the range of 5 mil per.
Kessel is due for a big raise, probably in the region of 4 mil, same with krejci.

Also, you do realize that if you dump off ward, sturm, kobasew, manny, and Axelsson your line up will be:

Kessel-Savard-Ryder
Bergeron-Krejci-wheeler
lucic-noke-Sobotka
thornton-soderberg-yelle

Chara-Kaberle
Wideman-stuart
ference-hnidy

Thomas
Rask

18 player cap hit: 55.6 mil, leaving you with .4 mil to fill out the 23 man roster requirement.

Also, what happens when bergeron is run through the boards and suffers a season ending concussion? What if Krejci and Kessel go through slumps after their amazing years, (it happens). What if wheeler goes through a sophomore slump, like many rookies?

If you trade guys like sturm, kobasew, ward, and Axelsson you will be left with a team frighteningly void of depth in the bottom 6, and with a young unexperienced team with little leadership. Yes you may be stronger this year, but you will be in big trouble next year, and bigger trouble the following summer when guys like savard, wheeler, lucic, stuart, and rask are free agents and will be expected to be compensated for their good play.

Let me reiterate to you Boston fans,
YOU CANNOT AFFORD KABERLE AND KEEP A COMPETITIVE TEAM NEXT YEAR

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02-04-2009, 08:45 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by DietCokeHead View Post

Let me reiterate to you Boston fans,
YOU CANNOT AFFORD KABERLE AND KEEP A COMPETITIVE TEAM NEXT YEAR
Me and most Bruins fans have been saying this, but Leafs fans never seem to care and propose away. Seems like a reversal this time. If we get Kaberle, say good by to Kessel or Krejci, and frankly, Kaberle isn't good enough to rip this team apart.

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02-04-2009, 08:53 PM
  #45
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Quick and dirty...

Quote:
Originally Posted by djwilson19 View Post
Yeah, well guess what ALL of those guys are up next year, I am not shredding the team, its called reality! I am not saying they will be gone, but obviously you would let a Hnidy and Hunwick walk (for the sake of same position guys) to allow more room Kab. And Check your cap figures, Bitz, Lash and Hunwick ABSOLUTELY count against the cap, a combined 1.5+ so far this year...and those numbers can go up based on games played..I am not gonna lose sleep over Yelle moving on either at 750K/per...that is more small money I know, point being though that at years end money will walk and OF Course you send money back in any deal...geez, dare I mention if we sent Manny to TOR ...I did also say no deal gets done anyways, i just hate when people automayically say we can not afford someone without knowing the actuality of a situation....ever hear of an off-season trade to make cap room too? Do you honestly think if there is a 4+ MIL player out there Chia and Neely LOVE or think is the final 'piece', they are just gonna say 'NOPE! We can't afford him', they would try and be creative and make it work...and if that is the case stop all the Tkachuk, Jovo/Morris, Cole, Jbo etc 'proposals'
No, you're not getting it.

Next year we're already committed to 43 mill. Assume the cap stagnates and we're at 56.7 again.

Manny is gone, Thomas resigns for an incredible 3.5 per (very very optomistic). Add Rask and that's 6.7 gone for goalies. You're 13.7 mill comes down to 7.7 million. You resign Kessel and Krejci for 4 mill each, you're now over by 0.3 mill and we haven't added Kaberle yet. Having fun yet?

The 43 million we're committed too is for 9 forwards, 5 defensemen, and no goalies. Now the numbers I put forth are for 2 goalies, and 2 forwards which brings the count to 18 players. You need 21 to fill out a roster (gives you 12 forwards, 7 dmen, 2 goalies) I believe so we also need to bring up 3 replacements (figure a couple of 800,000 players) and now we're suddenly 2 and a half mill over the cap.

That's a quick and dirty breakdown, but you can see why it doesn't make sense for Boston to add salary. What you say about Tkachuk, and Morris (haven't seen too many Jbo or Jovo proposals personally) doesn't really apply because they're all expiring contracts. What's that, you want to let Hunwick, our best young and upcoming dman, walk?


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02-04-2009, 10:57 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
Me and most Bruins fans have been saying this, but Leafs fans never seem to care and propose away. Seems like a reversal this time. If we get Kaberle, say good by to Kessel or Krejci, and frankly, Kaberle isn't good enough to rip this team apart.
My bad on the over generalization man, it's just frustrating when i've posted the same thing three times for the benefit of boston, and am still being argued with by bos fans.

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02-05-2009, 12:37 AM
  #47
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The only reason I can see Boston not doing this is because they are doing so well with the team they have...you don't fix what aint broken.

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02-05-2009, 02:29 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
Not enough from Boston.
Sturm wouldn't waive his NTC.
Can't afford Kaberle next year.

Leafs fans are gonna say it'll cost Wheeler, Lucic, Wideman, Krejci, Kessel and Rask for Kaberle and Chara for the rights to negotiate with Antropov.
For the love of god, could you please change your picture of Nikita Filatov? I have nightmares about it every night. It is the creepiest looking picture I have seen in my life.

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02-05-2009, 09:48 AM
  #49
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Did I say let Hunwick walk? Or was I pointing out that he counts against the cap this year (as you tried to say he and the likes of Bitz and other young soon to be RFA's don't count against the cap either) and that his money would potentially be gone? Respond to what was written, not what you confuse as to what I am trying to say please. I ALSO said a KAB deal does NOT get done. But for the sake of this thread we can discuss it. Does 13.7 minus 6.7 = 7.7? Hmph. And here we go again with numbers. Next years cap hit, not including ANY upcoming UFAs/RFAs is 45.95M. So yes you will have work to do at that point, with given the 56.7 cap number you use, just 10.75 left to play with. The (rough) 16 I mention is what would potentially be leaving...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
No, you're not getting it.

Next year we're already committed to 43 mill. Assume the cap stagnates and we're at 56.7 again.

Manny is gone, Thomas resigns for an incredible 3.5 per (very very optomistic). Add Rask and that's 6.7 gone for goalies. You're 13.7 mill comes down to 7.7 million. You resign Kessel and Krejci for 4 mill each, you're now over by 0.3 mill and we haven't added Kaberle yet. Having fun yet?

The 43 million we're committed too is for 9 forwards, 5 defensemen, and no goalies. Now the numbers I put forth are for 2 goalies, and 2 forwards which brings the count to 18 players. You need 21 to fill out a roster (gives you 12 forwards, 7 dmen, 2 goalies) I believe so we also need to bring up 3 replacements (figure a couple of 800,000 players) and now we're suddenly 2 and a half mill over the cap.

That's a quick and dirty breakdown, but you can see why it doesn't make sense for Boston to add salary. What you say about Tkachuk, and Morris (haven't seen too many Jbo or Jovo proposals personally) doesn't really apply because they're all expiring contracts. What's that, you want to let Hunwick, our best young and upcoming dman, walk?

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02-05-2009, 09:54 AM
  #50
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ANYONE who thinks PC would acquire Kab for a prospect and a 1st one year, and then trade him for a 3rd the next is giving him a HUGE backhanded slap? You can not be serious!!!!????!!!! A higher end puck moving Dman is as valued as any position, so teams would be calling, no matter how strapped we would be. In fact you could even argue its a good position to be in, having sought after assets is better than looking for them....most deals in the 'new NHL' cap era, are equal money changing hands deals...not that this would ever happen, but essentially you are saying a KAB for say Wideman and Wheeler (about equal monies changing hands here) wouldn't work since TOR would not want the Wideman contract in return...


Last edited by djwilson19: 02-05-2009 at 10:00 AM.
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