HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Top 10 in Scoring & Selke Voting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-05-2009, 01:38 PM
  #1
Hockey Outsider
Registered User
 
Hockey Outsider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,946
vCash: 500
Top 10 in Scoring & Selke Voting

Top ten in scoring & Selke voting (in the same season)
** Updated through 2016

Player Season Scoring Selke
Adam Oates 1993 3 10
Bobby Clarke 1978 8 4
Brent Sutter 1985 10 8
Bryan Trottier 1981 10 8
Bryan Trottier 1984 8 2
Daniel Alfredsson 2006 4 4
Daniel Alfredsson 2008 9 10
Doug Gilmour 1987 5 6
Doug Gilmour 1993 7 1
Doug Gilmour 1994 4 2
Henrik Zetterberg 2008 6 3
Jari Kurri 1983 9 2
Jari Kurri 1984 7 3
Jari Kurri 1985 2 4
Jari Kurri 1986 4 5
Jari Kurri 1987 2 10
Jari Kurri 1989 8 10
Jeremy Roenick 1992 7 9
Joe Pavelski 2014 8 8
Joe Thornton 2016 4 5
Joe Sakic 2000 8 10
Joe Sakic 2001 2 2
Joe Sakic 2002 5 9
Mark Messier 1992 5 9
Martin St. Louis 2004 1 4
Michel Goulet 1984 3 8
Mike Modano 2002 9 6
Mike Modano 2003 10 6
Nicklas Backstrom 2010 4 10
Patrik Elias 2001 3 8
Pavel Datsyuk 2008 4 1
Pavel Datsyuk 2009 4 1
Pavel Datsyuk2013103
Peter Forsberg 1998 2 6
Peter Forsberg 1999 4 8
Peter Forsberg 2003 1 4
Rick Middleton 1984 10 4
Ron Francis 1995 5 1
Ron Francis 1996 4 2
Ron Francis 1997 8 8
Ron Francis 1998 5 4
Ryan Getzlaf 2014 2 10
Sergei Fedorov 1994 2 1
Sergei Fedorov 1996 9 1
Sidney Crosby 2016 3 7
Steve Yzerman 2000 10 1
Zac Parise 2009 5 8

Disclaimers
- This list combines an objective statistic with subjective voting; it's up to you to decide if the results are meaningful.
- I'm fairly sure this list is complete but please let me know if I'm missing anybody.
- Selke voting started in 1978 so I'm obviously missing useful information for players who had most or all of their career prior to that season (Clarke, Mikita, Nighbor, H. Richard, Keon, etc).
- There have been obvious biases and patterns in Selke voting over the years; sometimes the voters seem to favour the best purely defensive forwards, and other years they vote for a complete star forward. It's tough to say if the results in different years are comparable.

Analysis
- Kurri leads the way with an incredible six seasons. Understandably, he was overshadowed by Gretzky. I think a lot of modern fans have forgotten that Kurri was a highly intelligent, disciplined positional defensive forward. Although I don't think Kurri could have scored 130 points without Gretzky, he still proved he was a consistent elite scorer without TGO (but that's a topic for another thread).
- Francis is next, with four seasons. Although I think he's overrated by casual fans (who incorrectly assume that he was a dominant scorer due to the fact that he played a long time in hockey's second-highest scoring era), maybe we're underrating him on this forum. His defensive play is, if anything, underrated.
- Datsyuk, Forsberg, Gilmour and Sakic each have three appearances on this list; Alfredsson, Fedorov, Modano and Trottier each have two.
- I was surprised to see Goulet earn a spot on this list. I know he's above-average defensively but I didn't realize there was at least one season when he was deemed Selke-worthy.
- Brent Sutter is likely the worst player on this list -- it's amazing what playing one year with Mike Bossy can do for your stats.
- No player has ever won the Art Ross & Selke in the same season. Fedorov came closest (winning the Selke in 1994 while finishing 2nd in scoring to Gretzky). Sakic was runner-up for both awards in 2001.
- One would expect that players who are great offensively & defensively would fare well in Hart trophy voting, but that's not always the case. There are only five Hart-winning seasons on this list (Messier in 1992, Fedorov in 1994, Sakic in 2001, Forsberg in 2003 and St. Louis in 2004), and only five more seasons where the player finished top three in Hart voting (Gilmour 2nd in 1993; Trottier 3rd in 1984; Datsyuk 3rd in 2009; Getzlaf 2nd in 2014; Crosby 2nd in 2016). Kurri and Francis, the players with the most spots on this list, never placed higher than 14th in Hart voting during their seasons listed above (largely because they were overshadowed by some all-time greats).


Last edited by Hockey Outsider: 06-22-2016 at 09:43 PM.
Hockey Outsider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2009, 02:32 PM
  #2
raleh
Registered User
 
raleh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 1,764
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider View Post
In progress, check back later...
I really, really, really hope this list ends up giving me some statistical back up to ranking Bobby Clarke ahead of Mikita, Trottier, Esposito, and Schmidt.

raleh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2009, 02:38 PM
  #3
nik jr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Congo-Kinshasa
Posts: 10,798
vCash: 500
clarke only had 1 season in the top 10 after the creation of the selke ('78). based on some games i've seen and his reputation, he probably would have won several if the award had existed for his entire career.


Last edited by nik jr: 02-05-2009 at 03:43 PM.
nik jr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2009, 03:32 PM
  #4
sparr0w
Registered User
 
sparr0w's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,385
vCash: 500
Fedorov 2nd in scoring and 1st in Selke voting in '94 has got to be tops on the list. Sakic finished 2nd and 2nd in '01, I believe.

sparr0w is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2009, 03:47 PM
  #5
nik jr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Congo-Kinshasa
Posts: 10,798
vCash: 500
HO, are you sure about clarke in '78? the award and all star thread says clarke was 4th in selke, behind gainey, ramsay and marcotte.

nik jr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2009, 03:49 PM
  #6
Hockey Outsider
Registered User
 
Hockey Outsider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
HO, are you sure about clarke in '78? the award and all star thread says clarke was 4th in selke, behind gainey, ramsay and marcotte.
Corrected, thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by raleh View Post
I really, really, really hope this list ends up giving me some statistical back up to ranking Bobby Clarke ahead of Mikita, Trottier, Esposito, and Schmidt.
I think one could argue that Clarke would have been at least a Selke finalist each year from 1974 to 1977... unfortunately the NHL didn't create the award until 1978. I think he was the best defensive player of the five you listed, and won the most Hart trophies, but he's arguably the weakest offensively. We'll see how this argument unfolds in the new Top 100 voting.


Last edited by Hockey Outsider: 02-05-2009 at 03:59 PM.
Hockey Outsider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2009, 03:55 PM
  #7
FissionFire
Registered User
 
FissionFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Country: United States
Posts: 11,424
vCash: 500
I have tons of respect for Sakic, but seeing him appear three times on this list is a bit baffling. He just wasn't a top 10 defensive player in the NHL for 3 different seasons IMO.

FissionFire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2009, 04:02 PM
  #8
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
I have tons of respect for Sakic, but seeing him appear three times on this list is a bit baffling. He just wasn't a top 10 defensive player in the NHL for 3 different seasons IMO.
His 2nd place finish in 2001 was based purely on statistics. That was the year he finished tied for first in +/-, in addition to finishing second in the league in scoring.

+/- had a huge effect on Selke voting in the late 90s/early 00s.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2009, 04:08 PM
  #9
Hockey Outsider
Registered User
 
Hockey Outsider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
His 2nd place finish in 2001 was based purely on statistics. That was the year he finished tied for first in +/-, in addition to finishing second in the league in scoring.

+/- had a huge effect on Selke voting in the late 90s/early 00s.
I don't think Forsberg deserved such a high finish in Selke voting (4th place) in 2003. Clearly he was a great defensive player but he wasn't really used in a defensive role that year (averaging about 12 seconds of PK ice time per game). I think a lot of people were influenced by his reputation and statistics (+52, first in the league) without considering that he simply wasn't used in a defensive role that year.

Hockey Outsider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2009, 04:10 PM
  #10
Padan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 534
vCash: 500
Wow, this really shows how overrated Forsberg was defensively. Below-average in the face-off circle, rarely played on the penalty-kill (due to injuries though), always matched up against the oppositions checking lines, but was still considered one of the leagues top defensive forwards.

Padan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2009, 04:19 PM
  #11
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider View Post
I don't think Forsberg deserved such a high finish in Selke voting (4th place) in 2003. Clearly he was a great defensive player but he wasn't really used in a defensive role that year (averaging about 12 seconds of PK ice time per game). I think a lot of people were influenced by his reputation and statistics (+52, first in the league) without considering that he simply wasn't used in a defensive role that year.
I give almost no credit to the Selke voting in the late 90s/early 00s. Voters really did just look at statistics, and shallow ones at that - unadjusted +/- first of all, and points secondly. Add some bonus points for "reputation."

By contrast, Datsyuk's 2008 win was based in large part on statistics - but voters looked more deeply by using stats like takeways, rather than just using +/- as a proxy for "defensive play."

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2009, 04:39 PM
  #12
nik jr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Congo-Kinshasa
Posts: 10,798
vCash: 500
i completely agree that selke voting was heavily influenced by +/-.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Outsider View Post
I think one could argue that Clarke would have been at least a Selke finalist each year from 1974 to 1977... unfortunately the NHL didn't create the award until 1978. I think he was the best defensive player of the five you listed, and won the most Hart trophies, but he's arguably the weakest offensively. We'll see how this argument unfolds in the new Top 100 voting.
here are a couple of things posted during the top 100 debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by reckoning View Post
A few years I found the results of a 1976 NHL coaches poll from the Toronto Star which I printed here http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=190951

The poll asked head coaches to rate the best players in various categories. Just to give an idea of how highly regarded Clarke was:
Quote:
Best Penalty Killer: Bobby Clarke
Best Checker: Bobby Clarke
Best on Faceoffs: Bobby Clarke
Hardest Worker: Bobby Clarke
Best Playmaker: Bobby Clarke
Most Valuable Player: Bobby Clarke
First Player You`d Choose Starting a Team From Scratch: Bobby Clarke

I can't think of any other forward I've ever seen who's complete game was that far reaching.
clarke's ESGA during his prime were incredible, even when parent was injured in '76. he was on the ice for only about 20 ESGA in a couple of seasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
A Case for Bobby Clarke

Iím a fan of the +/- stat. I think it can be very powerful if used correctly. If you take a look at the +/- numbers, I think Bobby Clarke looks very good.

Unlike goals scored or points scored, the +/- stat measures what is truly important in hockey Ė scoring more goals than your opponent. It can be used for forwards or defencemen, and it measures both a players ability to boost his teams offence or defence.

Itís certainly true that there are problems with the +/- stat. It can break down at the micro level sometimes, as +/- isnít the stat to look at in individual games. However, over many games, the random factors tend to even out. The best players will be plus players, and the weaker players will be minus players. These factors donít necessarily even out over a full season, which is why I like to look at multiple seasons of data. It is true that playing with stronger teammates will help a player here, but we can use our judgement to try and determine how much it helped. Playing against stronger opposition can be a factor, but I'm pretty confident that all of the players on this list consistently faced the oppositions best players, except for Messier in Edmonton.

Here are the numbers for the 5 players eligible who played since 1968, when these numbers were first tracked. I only have the raw data for +/-, which means that these arenít exact numbers for even strength goals, they include SH goals against and for. Also, the $Pts number is a number I calculated that adds the players ESGF and ESGA to a league-average team for the season and estimates how many regular season points it would add to the team.

YEAR PLAYER ESGFESGA $Pts
1968 ESPOSITO, PHIL 76 57 7
1969 ESPOSITO, PHIL114 58 19
1970 ESPOSITO, PHIL 77 49 11
1971 ESPOSITO, PHIL 136 65 21
1972 ESPOSITO, PHIL 115 60 18
1973 ESPOSITO, PHIL 107 91 5
1974 ESPOSITO, PHIL 136 85 14
1975 ESPOSITO, PHIL 95 77 5
1976 ESPOSITO, PHIL 61 101 -12
1977 ESPOSITO, PHIL 71 99 -9
1978 ESPOSITO, PHIL 61 83 -7
1979 ESPOSITO, PHIL 78 79 -0
1980 ESPOSITO, PHIL 76 89 -4
1981 ESPOSITO, PHIL 34 47 -4

YEAR PLAYER ESGF ESGA $Pts
1970 CLARKE, BOBBY 45 44 0
1971 CLARKE, BOBBY 58 49 3
1972 CLARKE, BOBBY 73 51 8
1973 CLARKE, BOBBY 91 59 10
1974 CLARKE, BOBBY 71 36 12
1975 CLARKE, BOBBY 98 19 25
1976 CLARKE, BOBBY 105 22 26
1977 CLARKE, BOBBY 85 46 13
1978 CLARKE, BOBBY 80 33 16
1979 CLARKE, BOBBY 65 53 4
1980 CLARKE, BOBBY 86 44 13
1981 CLARKE, BOBBY 62 45 5
1982 CLARKE, BOBBY 68 40 8
1983 CLARKE, BOBBY 83 46 11
1984 CLARKE, BOBBY 65 42 7

YEAR PLAYER ESGF ESGA $Pts
1974 POTVIN, DENIS 85 101 -5
1975 POTVIN, DENIS 105 77 8
1976 POTVIN, DENIS 83 71 4
1977 POTVIN, DENIS 117 75 12
1978 POTVIN, DENIS 134 77 16
1979 POTVIN, DENIS 128 57 20
1980 POTVIN, DENIS 46 33 5
1981 POTVIN, DENIS 105 67 10
1982 POTVIN, DENIS 92 54 11
1983 POTVIN, DENIS 85 53 9
1984 POTVIN, DENIS 128 73 14
1985 POTVIN, DENIS 116 80 9
1986 POTVIN, DENIS 94 60 9
1987 POTVIN, DENIS 49 55 -2
1988 POTVIN, DENIS 75 49 8

YEAR PLAYER ESGF ESGA $Pts
1978 BOSSY, MIKE 73 42 11
1979 BOSSY, MIKE 104 41 19
1980 BOSSY, MIKE 79 51 9
1981 BOSSY, MIKE 97 60 10
1982 BOSSY, MIKE 120 51 18
1983 BOSSY, MIKE 93 66 8
1984 BOSSY, MIKE 112 46 18
1985 BOSSY, MIKE 102 65 10
1986 BOSSY, MIKE 105 75 8
1987 BOSSY, MIKE 52 59 -2

YEAR PLAYER ESGF ESGA $Pts
1980 MESSIER, MARK 44 54 -3
1981 MESSIER, MARK 65 77 -3
1982 MESSIER, MARK 103 82 5
1983 MESSIER, MARK 103 84 5
1984 MESSIER, MARK 100 60 11
1985 MESSIER, MARK 54 46 2
1986 MESSIER, MARK 83 47 10
1987 MESSIER, MARK 91 70 6
1988 MESSIER, MARK 95 74 6
1989 MESSIER, MARK 71 76 -1
1990 MESSIER, MARK 99 80 5
1991 MESSIER, MARK 56 41 5
1992 MESSIER, MARK 102 71 9
1993 MESSIER, MARK 74 80 -2
1994 MESSIER, MARK 71 46 9
1995 MESSIER, MARK 41 33 3
1996 MESSIER, MARK 81 52 10
1997 MESSIER, MARK 75 63 4
1998 MESSIER, MARK 64 74 -4
1999 MESSIER, MARK 35 47 -5
2000 MESSIER, MARK 41 56 -6
2001 MESSIER, MARK 51 76 -9
2002 MESSIER, MARK 22 23 0
2003 MESSIER, MARK 41 43 -1
2004 MESSIER, MARK 48 45 1

First, while team strength is an issue in +/- stats, I donít think thatís a big issue here. All of these 5 players played on teams that were multiple Cup winners and consistent contenders. Orr may have inflated Espositoís stats a bit, Bossy obviously gets the Trottier effect. Clarke had Leach and Barber during his best years, but they arenít all-time greats and their +/- numbers were unimpressive when they didnít play with Clarke, while Clarkeís numbers were consistently good to great over his career. I donít think Potvin or Messier had any teammates inflating their numbers, beyond the general effect of playing on great teams.

By the $Pts metric, letís look at how the players rank over different time periods.

Best 3 Best 5 Best 7 Best 10 Career
Clarke Clarke Clarke Clarke Clarke
Esposito Esposito Esposito Potvin Potvin
Potvin Bossy Bossy Bossy Bossy
Bossy Potvin Potvin Esposito Esposito
Messier Messier Messier Messier Messier

Clarke is far and away the class of this group by +/- analysis, in peak, career, or any combination. Similarly, Messier is relatively unimpressive - although of course his case at this point depends almost entirely on his playoff record. Potvin and Bossy both look good, although I'd take Potvin ahead of Bossy as Bossy got to play with Trottier all the time. Esposito has the great peak, and his career can't be fairly evaluated by this as the numbers only go back to 1968.

Of course this is only a piece of the puzzle, and observation and analysis by knowledgeable observers can go a long way. This analysis also doesn't cover playoffs, although it can possibly help there also - I think it's reasonable to assume that Clarke was similarly defensively dominant in the 75 and 76 playoffs. However, I think that the +/- data we have on the post-1968 players is a valuable tool and should be given more weight, especially compared to simply looking at scoring numbers.

I'm voting for Clarke and will place him at the top of my list. His regular season numbers, playoff performance, and reputation all add up for me. Right now the rest of my list would go Kelly, Hall, Potvin, Esposito, with Roy and Lindsay still in the running.

nik jr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2009, 08:40 PM
  #13
Bodhi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 89
vCash: 500
There are a lot of players who have won the Selke trophy and haven't been the best defensive forward in the league, or even on the team.

But to back up Sakic, who received more 1st place votes in 2000-01, he was an elite defensive forward from the mid 90s to just before the lockout. He played a ton of minutes on the PP and on even strength, so he may not have played as much minutes shorthanded as one would expect from a good defensive player. Forsberg was never really that great defensively, though he was above average.

Bodhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-05-2009, 09:08 PM
  #14
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 45,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhi View Post
There are a lot of players who have won the Selke trophy and haven't been the best defensive forward in the league, or even on the team.

But to back up Sakic, who received more 1st place votes in 2000-01, he was an elite defensive forward from the mid 90s to just before the lockout. He played a ton of minutes on the PP and on even strength, so he may not have played as much minutes shorthanded as one would expect from a good defensive player. Forsberg was never really that great defensively, though he was above average.
I agree that Sakic was a very good two-way player. (just not Selke worthy). In fact, he usually was the guy who went against the top lines of other teams (I saw a post here a year or so back proving this). Forsberg's two-way play got overrated because a lot of people assumed that physical play and defense were the same things.

TheDevilMadeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2009, 09:56 PM
  #15
TheGoldenJet
Registered User
 
TheGoldenJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,990
vCash: 500
Sergei Fedorov's 1-2 is the most impressive, followed closely by Sakic's 2-2.

TheGoldenJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-06-2009, 10:21 PM
  #16
Dark Shadows
Registered User
 
Dark Shadows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Country: Japan
Posts: 7,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I agree that Sakic was a very good two-way player. (just not Selke worthy). In fact, he usually was the guy who went against the top lines of other teams (I saw a post here a year or so back proving this). Forsberg's two-way play got overrated because a lot of people assumed that physical play and defense were the same things.
Forsberg's two way play was actually, very good. Not only that, but it was exceptionally difficult to score while he was on the ice by virtue of his keeping the play in the offensive Zone. Just look at his goals for and goals against.

I of course agree that Sakic's two way game was very underrated as well. Sakic's first 3 years were not pretty, but after that, its great two way numbers.

Yzerman's goals for/goals against numbers take a gigantic swing for the better at 1994, obviously because of the arrival of Bowman's system and Yzerman's dedication to becoming a better two way player.

Dark Shadows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-07-2009, 10:56 AM
  #17
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 11,750
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by raleh View Post
I really, really, really hope this list ends up giving me some statistical back up to ranking Bobby Clarke ahead of Mikita, Trottier, Esposito, and Schmidt.
I have Clarke ahead of all those guys on my list, too. (Unless you mean PHIL Esposito)


From the top post:

"- Francis is next, with four seasons. Although I think he's overrated by casual fans (who incorrectly assume that he was a dominant scorer due to the fact that he played a long time in hockey's second-highest scoring era), maybe we're underrating him on this forum. His defensive play is, if anything, underrated."

Nice to see. I agree.

Dennis Bonvie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-07-2009, 11:17 AM
  #18
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: HŰlle
Posts: 31,778
vCash: 500
HO... If we take in consideration Retro Selkes, which guys would be added? I expect to see lots of Mikita, some Keon, a few Provost...
Retro-Selke data doesn't appear anymore with the search function (?) so I wonder if some guys would be added to the list. Obviously, Retro Selkes were not voted (so there were no Selke's 2nd place...) so we would only have "winners" with "Top-10 points"...

What I know
- Nighbor has six Top-10 in points : the first 4 NHL years + 23-24;25-26.
- I though Berlinquette had one, but he didn't.
- Lepine has no Top-10 in points
- Finnigan has two Top-10 (9,10) in 27-28;28-29
- Hooley Smith has six Top-10 (4,4,6,8,8,10) in 25-26;28-29;31-32;32-33;33-34;35-36.
- Charley McVeigh has no Top-10 in points.
- Neither does Murray Murdoch
- Neither does Bob Davidson
- Neither does Marty Pavelich
- Can't really look, but I'm sure Marcotte has none.

Those are the guys I can think with a R-Selke, aside from the usual suspects (Keon, Provost, Mikita...)

If somebody can retrieve the data for R-Selke, and complete it with Top-10 in points, it would make a nice addition.


Last edited by MXD: 02-07-2009 at 11:28 AM.
MXD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-07-2009, 01:45 PM
  #19
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,900
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
If somebody can retrieve the data for R-Selke, and complete it with Top-10 in points, it would make a nice addition.
Ullman? Or Delvecchio wouldnt be bad choices either

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-07-2009, 01:51 PM
  #20
MXD
Registered User
 
MXD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: HŰlle
Posts: 31,778
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Ullman? Or Delvecchio wouldnt be bad choices either
I named guys that I remembered "earning" R-Selkes. If Delvechio and Ullman earned such of them, they'll likely join the list. For whatever reason, the only winners that I remembered were the obvious suspects and the 1917-1936 guys.

MXD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-07-2009, 03:02 PM
  #21
tommygunn
Registered User
 
tommygunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 590
vCash: 500
Retro Selke Winners

http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=1...8&postcount=12

tommygunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2009, 07:07 PM
  #22
WingsFan95
Registered User
 
WingsFan95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,879
vCash: 500
Yeah, Fedorov was a beast.

WingsFan95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-14-2009, 02:23 AM
  #23
Hockey Outsider
Registered User
 
Hockey Outsider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,946
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MXD View Post
If somebody can retrieve the data for R-Selke, and complete it with Top-10 in points, it would make a nice addition.
Retro Selke & scoring rank
- Frank Nighbor (1920): 2nd
- Frank Nighbor (1921): 3rd
- Frank Nighbor (1926): 8th
- Frank Boucher (1929): 6th
- Neil Colville (1941): 7th
- Claude Provost (1965): 6th
- Stan Mikita (1968): 1st (**wins Art Ross and wins retro Selke)
- Bobby Clarke (1974): 5th
- Bobby Clarke (1975): 6th

Obviously there is no voting data available for the retro Selkes. Many players, both on and off this list, had several seasons that would qualify for my list in the first post.

Hockey Outsider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2009, 09:39 PM
  #24
Hockey Outsider
Registered User
 
Hockey Outsider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,946
vCash: 500
Two additions to this list (2009):

- Datsyuk, for the second consecutive season, finished 4th in scoring and won the Selke trophy
- Parise finished 5th in scoring and 8th in Selke voting


Last edited by Hockey Outsider: 07-01-2010 at 11:31 PM.
Hockey Outsider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-19-2009, 10:07 PM
  #25
NOTENOUGHBREWER
Registered User
 
NOTENOUGHBREWER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 9,495
vCash: 500
Am I the only one that doesnt like Datsyuk's Selke trophies? He's hardly a terrible defensive player but watching him play I think his winning is just as bad as Sakic finishing runner up.

NOTENOUGHBREWER is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:29 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2017 All Rights Reserved.