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Average goaltending WILL NOT win a championship!

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Old
02-05-2009, 01:21 PM
  #26
Haute Couturier
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The problem is that it is tough to find a stud goalie. The next best thing is to improve the defense which would make it easier to win with average goaltending.

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02-05-2009, 01:22 PM
  #27
IrishSniper87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Death of a Martian View Post
A team that lets their goalie face 30+ shots every night will not win in the long run.
But that's the Steven's way of doing it!

Do you know a better way? Cuz Steven's doesn't.

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Old
02-05-2009, 02:11 PM
  #28
CanadianFlyer88
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Starting goalies that have led their team to a Stanley Cup Championship currently playing in the NHL:

Chris Osgood, 0.906 career sv%, 2.46 career GAA
J.S. Giguere, 0.915, 2.47
Cam Ward, 0.900, 2.88
Nikolai Khabibulin, 0.908, 2.67
Martin Brodeur, 0.914, 2.20

Philadelphia goaltenders:
Marty Biron, 0.910, 2.59
Antero Niittymaki, 0.901, 3.00

Above Average starting goaltenders without a Stanley Cup ring (I'm just guessing who you would consider being an 'above average' goalie):

Henrik Lundqvist, Marc-Andre Fleury, Tim Thomas, Carey Price, Ryan Miller, Tomas Vokoun, Cristobal Huet, Roberto Luongo, Miikka Kiprusoff, Nick Backstrom, Marty Turco, Evgeni Nabokov, Ilya Bryzgalov

You're right, average goaltending will probably not win a team a championship. An 'average' goaltender, however, can get hot at any time. If Marty plays 'average', the Flyers don't beat the Caps or the Habs last season.

This team has bigger issues than its goaltending.

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02-05-2009, 02:16 PM
  #29
mikedifr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Starting goalies that have led their team to a Stanley Cup Championship currently playing in the NHL:

Chris Osgood, 0.906 career sv%, 2.46 career GAA
J.S. Giguere, 0.915, 2.47
Cam Ward, 0.900, 2.88
Nikolai Khabibulin, 0.908, 2.67
Martin Brodeur, 0.914, 2.20

Philadelphia goaltenders:
Marty Biron, 0.910, 2.59
Antero Niittymaki, 0.901, 3.00

Above Average starting goaltenders without a Stanley Cup ring (I'm just guessing who you would consider being an 'above average' goalie):

Henrik Lundqvist, Marc-Andre Fleury, Tim Thomas, Carey Price, Ryan Miller, Tomas Vokoun, Cristobal Huet, Roberto Luongo, Miikka Kiprusoff, Nick Backstrom, Marty Turco, Evgeni Nabokov, Ilya Bryzgalov

You're right, average goaltending will probably not win a team a championship. An 'average' goaltender, however, can get hot at any time. If Marty plays 'average', the Flyers don't beat the Caps or the Habs last season.

This team has bigger issues than its goaltending.

Nice post.

I was at the game last night against the Bruins sitting right behind Marty during a couple of those goals. He had absolutely no chance on 2 of them, and the 1st was questionable. I did pay a lot of attention to the defense though and this team still has no clue how to get out of its own zone, especially against the better teams like the Bruins that really know how to pin you in your zone.

Carle looked brutal last night.

I was very impressed with Parent though. I really wish this team would move Jones and keep him up permanently. I would say move Alberts but he is the only one that brings any size with him back there, not that he uses it as much as he should but it is a good option to have.

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Old
02-05-2009, 02:17 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Starting goalies that have led their team to a Stanley Cup Championship currently playing in the NHL:

Chris Osgood, 0.906 career sv%, 2.46 career GAA
J.S. Giguere, 0.915, 2.47
Cam Ward, 0.900, 2.88
Nikolai Khabibulin, 0.908, 2.67
Martin Brodeur, 0.914, 2.20

Philadelphia goaltenders:
Marty Biron, 0.910, 2.59
Antero Niittymaki, 0.901, 3.00

Above Average starting goaltenders without a Stanley Cup ring (I'm just guessing who you would consider being an 'above average' goalie):

Henrik Lundqvist, Marc-Andre Fleury, Tim Thomas, Carey Price, Ryan Miller, Tomas Vokoun, Cristobal Huet, Roberto Luongo, Miikka Kiprusoff, Nick Backstrom, Marty Turco, Evgeni Nabokov, Ilya Bryzgalov

You're right, average goaltending will probably not win a team a championship. An 'average' goaltender, however, can get hot at any time. If Marty plays 'average', the Flyers don't beat the Caps or the Habs last season.

This team has bigger issues than its goaltending.
I agree, goaltending is bad, but it's not the biggest issue. I believe the biggest issue is playing consistently from game to game.

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Old
02-05-2009, 03:00 PM
  #31
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what we need is a system that works. Everyone buys in and voila, success.

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Old
02-05-2009, 03:03 PM
  #32
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Briere, Biron, Jones and a 2nd rounder for... who exactly?

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Old
02-05-2009, 04:18 PM
  #33
JLHockeyKnight
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Canes did it with an average goaltender and the Ducks did it with a fat-ass in fat pads. So, OP, you are wrong.

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Old
02-05-2009, 04:20 PM
  #34
IrishSniper87
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Canes did it with an average goaltender and the Ducks did it with a fat-ass in fat pads. So, OP, you are wrong.
Very nice JL, I agree.

Cam Ward is hardly a stud goalie, and he is a champ.

Biron CAN do it, but will he?? That's another story.

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Old
02-05-2009, 04:23 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Very nice JL, I agree.

Cam Ward is hardly a stud goalie, and he is a champ.

Biron CAN do it, but will he?? That's another story.
I think Biron and Ward have the same chances of flopping, and the Flyers now are at fairly the same level as the Canes then.

The only reason Biron flopped in the ECF last year was because the whole team flopped. As much as I hate to say this, the Penguins were the better team last year, and Fleury played some great hockey. The Flyers also had a difficult run against the Caps, and Canadians, 2 good teams, and THEN had to go up against the best team in the East. If they had gotten an easier run I think they would have made the finals.

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Old
02-05-2009, 04:33 PM
  #36
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Timonen was such a huge blow to the team in the Pens series. He literally carried the team past the Caps and Ovie...Biron made some spectacular saves, but without Timonen we aren't beating the Caps.

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Old
02-05-2009, 05:02 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilaFlyers View Post
I agree, goaltending is bad, but it's not the biggest issue. I believe the biggest issue is playing consistently from game to game.
IE, a coach!!!!!

And a cure for the Flu haha.


Goaltending is good to go. Marty was the sole reason we got to the conference finals. Last night two shots went in off of Carter and another shot went in off a Bruin deflection. If you have a system like the Devils and Bruins do you can win games just off that. Now realize we have a better Defense and Offense than either of those teams and you have you new Conference leader.

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Old
02-06-2009, 12:07 AM
  #38
Joey Mac
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they've been trying to win a cup with average goaltending since hextall... they don't draft good enough prospects to become #1 goalies, it's always the biggest question mark come playoff time... there's a reason why biron and nittymaki wouldn't start for other clubs... biron had a great playoff run last season which gave hope for this season, but he hasn't played up to those standards on a daily basis...

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02-06-2009, 12:32 AM
  #39
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average goaltending? no it can't win a championship. but average goalTENDERS can.

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Old
02-06-2009, 08:05 AM
  #40
Terence Peterman
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Originally Posted by Joey Mac View Post
they've been trying to win a cup with average goaltending since hextall... they don't draft good enough prospects to become #1 goalies, it's always the biggest question mark come playoff time... there's a reason why biron and nittymaki wouldn't start for other clubs... biron had a great playoff run last season which gave hope for this season, but he hasn't played up to those standards on a daily basis...
You've gotta be kidding dude. Name one playoff goalie from last year (hell, I'll even let you go back to the start of the decade) who has played like they did in the regular season as they did in the playoffs (and I mean played out-of-their-mind good), let alone the NEXT regular season following those playoffs.

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02-06-2009, 08:14 AM
  #41
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The goaltending debate usually brings out the best in people, and it usually separates the whiners/complainers from the people who really think through the dynamic of the position.

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02-06-2009, 08:31 AM
  #42
mikedifr
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
The goaltending debate usually brings out the best in people, and it usually separates the whiners/complainers from the people who really think through the dynamic of the position.
Very philosphical of you

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Old
02-06-2009, 08:50 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
You've gotta be kidding dude. Name one playoff goalie from last year (hell, I'll even let you go back to the start of the decade) who has played like they did in the regular season as they did in the playoffs (and I mean played out-of-their-mind good), let alone the NEXT regular season following those playoffs.
I think the point he was making is that when we do have deep playoff runs its simply an average goalie getting hot. We always have had high expectations but the one question mark for a loooong time has been goalies. We either win in the playoffs because an average goalie has the run of a lifetime(biron and boucher) or an average goalie cant hack it and we lose.

I personally like the odds of a good goalie getting hot over an average goalie getting hot. The way I see it, we've only had about 3 good runs in the plast 15 years while we have been towards the top of the east the whole time, if we had good goaltending that whole time we would have most likely had 5-6 good runs and a cup by now.

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Old
02-06-2009, 08:52 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Sonny View Post
You've gotta be kidding dude. Name one playoff goalie from last year (hell, I'll even let you go back to the start of the decade) who has played like they did in the regular season as they did in the playoffs (and I mean played out-of-their-mind good), let alone the NEXT regular season following those playoffs.
brodeur, kipprusof, patrick roy, hasek, giguere, miller, nabokov...

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Old
02-06-2009, 11:05 AM
  #45
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Great goaltending can make up for team,s shortcomings and win cup. You not winning anything with this teams shortcomings and average at best goaltending.

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02-06-2009, 11:06 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by flyersjamminontheone View Post
brodeur, kipprusof, patrick roy, hasek, giguere, miller, nabokov...
Touche...Dude

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Old
02-06-2009, 11:09 AM
  #47
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Cam Ward won a cup and even a Conn Smyth. He is not anything above average.

Osgood has made a grea career of being just an average goaltender.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthliner View Post
Briere, Biron, Jones and a 2nd rounder for... who exactly?
Briere and Biron both have NTC.

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02-06-2009, 11:13 AM
  #48
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Manny Legace is on waivers, but too injury prone.

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Old
02-06-2009, 11:22 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Wow, what an insightful post.

Does anyone here know a lot about Islam? I need help with a paper I'm writing.
sure, i took a comparative religion studies class last semester. let me know if you need any help.

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Old
02-06-2009, 11:51 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
Cam Ward won a cup and even a Conn Smyth. He is not anything above average.

Osgood has made a grea career of being just an average goaltender.



Briere and Biron both have NTC.
But you see (I tried to stay away from this thread), everyone said that riding an average goaltender, we can still win the cup. Well we have been riding average goaltenders for a long time now... and we have no cup with these average goaltenders... so why not try getting a elite goaltender (our best chances is hope to get a good one in the draft) and maybe something will change...

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