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Old
02-05-2009, 12:51 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by DevFan-RU- View Post
The Devils are eventually going to do that in the Prudential Center so they can honor other popular/great players who will not have their number retired... like Brylin, MaClean, and others from before my time... (We have some old timers who know more than I do.)
Why wouldn't they retire MacLean's number?

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02-05-2009, 01:29 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Why wouldn't they retire MacLean's number?
Why should they?

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02-05-2009, 01:34 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by DevFan-RU- View Post
Why should they?
Franchise career leader in scoring...

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02-05-2009, 01:35 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Adam Graves (94 Cup)
Brian Leetch (94 Cup)
Mark Messier (94 Cup)
Mike Richter (94 Cup)
Rod Gilbert
Eddie Giacomin
Andy Bathgate
Harry Howell
Ron Greschner
Brad Park
Jean Ratelle
Walt Tkaczuk
Vic Hadfield
Frank Boucher
Bill Cook (28 & 33 Cups)
Fred "Bun" Cook (28 & 33 Cups)
Ivan "Ching" Johnson (28 & 33 Cups)
Butch Keeling (33 Cup)
Murray Murdoch (33 Cup)
Lynn Patrick (40 Cup)
Ott Heller (33 & 40 Cups)
Babe Pratt (40 Cup)

Lester Patrick
Emile Francis

That is the full list of jerseys we should see hanging in the rafters when we go to Madison Square Garden.
That is why I agree with the idea of the "Hall of Heros" where you honor them without retiring numbers. After 9 & 3, I don't want to see a number retired for a loooooong time. It has to be something truly special, like 4 cups in a row special. Or 5 cups in 10 years. It has to be like Steve Yzerman level of special for me. If we go retiring numbers left and right after this, not only will we run out of jersey #s to wear, it will be a watered down honor.

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02-05-2009, 01:38 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
That is why I agree with the idea of the "Hall of Heros" where you honor them without retiring numbers. After 9 & 3, I don't want to see a number retired for a loooooong time. It has to be something truly special, like 4 cups in a row special. Or 5 cups in 10 years. It has to be like Steve Yzerman level of special for me. If we go retiring numbers left and right after this, not only will we run out of jersey #s to wear, it will be a watered down honor.
This. If one of our young guns steps up and captains the team to a cup or two in the next 15 years (Staal, Dubinsky) I'd retire it. But everyone else should just be honored, otherwise we're going to run out of numbers and are gonna start having to use triple digits.

Evgeny Grachev #119

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02-05-2009, 01:40 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by NYRangers3018 View Post
This. If one of our young guns steps up and captains the team to a cup or two in the next 15 years (Staal, Dubinsky) I'd retire it. But everyone else should just be honored, otherwise we're going to run out of numbers and are gonna start having to use triple digits.

Evgeny Grachev #119
Run out of numbers? The team will have 7 numbers retired? By my count that leaves 93 left.

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02-05-2009, 01:52 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Some of your posts come off as just mindless ranting and raving.

This one is one of those.

Who gives a **** if their main accomplishment is winning two Cups? Ott wasn't a hall of famer and wasn't an all time great player. And, as far as I know, most people don't remember him for all of the off ice deeds that he did (I could very well be wrong, if there is an Ott Heller historian on here please correct me).

I'm all for Bill and Bun Cook, Frank Boucher, Jean Ratalle being up there (and possibly guys like Tkaczuk, Ching Johnson, Grech and Park).

I'm also totally for honoring Lester Patrick (as he should be) and Emile Francis in some way.

But the rest of your list is a bit silly -- like you just pulled names out of a hat.
Those guys, a lot of them ARE Hall of Fame players, and they are the best players the Rangers have had in their organization's history.


Ron Greschner - One of the best defenseman in Club history. 4th in Rangers history in games played.

Brad Park - One of the best defenseman in NHL history.

Jean Ratelle - 3rd in Rangers history in points. 2nd in Rangers history in goals scored. 3rd in assists. Played more games, and had more points as a Ranger then Mark Messier. 6th NYR all time games played.

Walt Tkaczuk - 5th in Rangers history in games played. 6th in scoring. 5th in assists.

Vic Hadfield - 9th in points. 5th Rangers history in goals scored and assist. Only 8 goals behind Bathgate. Only 6 assist behind Bathgate. One of only 3 Rangers to score more then 50 in a season. Also 5th in PIM.

Frank Boucher
Bill Cook (28 & 33 Cups)
Fred "Bun" Cook (28 & 33 Cups)

We all know what the above 3 meant to the organization.

Ivan "Ching" Johnson (28 & 33 Cups) - One of the best defenseman in club history. HOF player. 5 time all-star.

Butch Keeling (33 Cup) - 11 seasons as a Ranger. Was a great winger in his time.

Murray Murdoch (33 Cup) - 11 seasons as a Ranger.

Lynn Patrick (40 Cup) - HOF player. 11 seasons as a Ranger. NHL leader in goals in 42. Team MVP twice.

Ott Heller (33 & 40 Cups) - 15 seasons as a Ranger. Team captain for several years. Team MVP.

Babe Pratt (40 Cup) - HOF player. 8 seasons as a Ranger.


They don't need to be a Hall of Famer to have their number retired by their organization... see: Graves.

Most of them are HOF players anyway.


And they don't need viewing parties, or celebrations. All the organization needs to do is put the banners up and retire the numbers.

The point is, these guys are huge in regards to the Rangers history. They should be honored, just as players from recent history have been.


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02-05-2009, 02:00 PM
  #33
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How many numbers do the Canadiens have retired?

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02-05-2009, 03:31 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Franchise career leader in scoring...
That's not enough because that's a record which can be broken.

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02-05-2009, 03:44 PM
  #35
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That's not enough because that's a record which can be broken.
Any record can be broken.

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02-05-2009, 06:38 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Run out of numbers? The team will have 7 numbers retired? By my count that leaves 93 left.
well actually it would leave 91 numbers left... #99 isn't available for any team and #100 was never an option...

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02-05-2009, 06:44 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Any record can be broken.
That's the point. So why retire MacLean?

The way I see it, the Devils have one more number that is a lock to go up: #30.

Following that, maybe #26. (And no #27... I hope)

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02-05-2009, 06:44 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Dante 71 View Post
well actually it would leave 91 numbers left... #99 isn't available for any team and #100 was never an option...
Wouldn't it be 91 numbers? Players can't where 0.

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02-05-2009, 07:46 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Why wouldn't they retire MacLean's number?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevFan-RU- View Post
Why should they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Franchise career leader in scoring...

He was there from the begining when The Devils were terrible & helped get them from a Mickey Mouse team to Winning a Cup.

There is no one in the History Of the Devils Orginization more deserving than John MacClean.

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02-05-2009, 09:05 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n8 View Post
That is why I agree with the idea of the "Hall of Heros" where you honor them without retiring numbers. After 9 & 3, I don't want to see a number retired for a loooooong time. It has to be something truly special, like 4 cups in a row special. Or 5 cups in 10 years. It has to be like Steve Yzerman level of special for me. If we go retiring numbers left and right after this, not only will we run out of jersey #s to wear, it will be a watered down honor.
Frank Boucher is a special player.

So are the Cooks.

And Ratelle.

All four NEED to have their numbers retired.

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02-05-2009, 09:07 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Those guys, a lot of them ARE Hall of Fame players, and they are the best players the Rangers have had in their organization's history.


Ron Greschner - One of the best defenseman in Club history. 4th in Rangers history in games played.

Brad Park - One of the best defenseman in NHL history.

Jean Ratelle - 3rd in Rangers history in points. 2nd in Rangers history in goals scored. 3rd in assists. Played more games, and had more points as a Ranger then Mark Messier. 6th NYR all time games played.

Walt Tkaczuk - 5th in Rangers history in games played. 6th in scoring. 5th in assists.

Vic Hadfield - 9th in points. 5th Rangers history in goals scored and assist. Only 8 goals behind Bathgate. Only 6 assist behind Bathgate. One of only 3 Rangers to score more then 50 in a season. Also 5th in PIM.

Frank Boucher
Bill Cook (28 & 33 Cups)
Fred "Bun" Cook (28 & 33 Cups)

We all know what the above 3 meant to the organization.

Ivan "Ching" Johnson (28 & 33 Cups) - One of the best defenseman in club history. HOF player. 5 time all-star.

Butch Keeling (33 Cup) - 11 seasons as a Ranger. Was a great winger in his time.

Murray Murdoch (33 Cup) - 11 seasons as a Ranger.

Lynn Patrick (40 Cup) - HOF player. 11 seasons as a Ranger. NHL leader in goals in 42. Team MVP twice.

Ott Heller (33 & 40 Cups) - 15 seasons as a Ranger. Team captain for several years. Team MVP.

Babe Pratt (40 Cup) - HOF player. 8 seasons as a Ranger.


They don't need to be a Hall of Famer to have their number retired by their organization... see: Graves.

Most of them are HOF players anyway.


And they don't need viewing parties, or celebrations. All the organization needs to do is put the banners up and retire the numbers.

The point is, these guys are huge in regards to the Rangers history. They should be honored, just as players from recent history have been.
Hey, I'm all in favor of retiring Boucher's, the Cook's, and Ratelle's numbers. I have been for a while. I think the rest are just a bit overkill, don't you?

I love Gresch as much as the next person, but I also don't think he should really have his number retired.

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02-05-2009, 09:08 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Any record can be broken.
Macleans will be broken by elias and his possibly by parise. unless they are a HOF player they probably wont have their number retired (with exception of daneyko)

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02-05-2009, 09:16 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Hey, I'm all in favor of retiring Boucher's, the Cook's, and Ratelle's numbers. I have been for a while. I think the rest are just a bit overkill, don't you?

I love Gresch as much as the next person, but I also don't think he should really have his number retired.
Certainly not for Hadfield and Tkaczuk, and a few others. Those two are at the top of every list. Goals, points, games played...

A few of them could be overkill, but like i said, those guys were foundations in the organization and should be recognized. Be it a team Hall of Fame or something like that when the Garden's renovations are done. That could be a good thing. Something people can go see and learn about the players who helped define the Rangers history.

Over 80 years of rich history and great players, and the organization is only recognizing players from the second half of it's existence. It just doesn't seem right to the other guys, even if they are deceased, they should be recognized in some shape or form, as well.

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02-05-2009, 09:20 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Those guys, a lot of them ARE Hall of Fame players, and they are the best players the Rangers have had in their organization's history.


Ron Greschner - One of the best defenseman in Club history. 4th in Rangers history in games played.

Brad Park - One of the best defenseman in NHL history.

Jean Ratelle - 3rd in Rangers history in points. 2nd in Rangers history in goals scored. 3rd in assists. Played more games, and had more points as a Ranger then Mark Messier. 6th NYR all time games played.

Walt Tkaczuk - 5th in Rangers history in games played. 6th in scoring. 5th in assists.

Vic Hadfield - 9th in points. 5th Rangers history in goals scored and assist. Only 8 goals behind Bathgate. Only 6 assist behind Bathgate. One of only 3 Rangers to score more then 50 in a season. Also 5th in PIM.

Frank Boucher
Bill Cook (28 & 33 Cups)
Fred "Bun" Cook (28 & 33 Cups)

We all know what the above 3 meant to the organization.

Ivan "Ching" Johnson (28 & 33 Cups) - One of the best defenseman in club history. HOF player. 5 time all-star.

Butch Keeling (33 Cup) - 11 seasons as a Ranger. Was a great winger in his time.

Murray Murdoch (33 Cup) - 11 seasons as a Ranger.

Lynn Patrick (40 Cup) - HOF player. 11 seasons as a Ranger. NHL leader in goals in 42. Team MVP twice.

Ott Heller (33 & 40 Cups) - 15 seasons as a Ranger. Team captain for several years. Team MVP.

Babe Pratt (40 Cup) - HOF player. 8 seasons as a Ranger.


They don't need to be a Hall of Famer to have their number retired by their organization... see: Graves.

Most of them are HOF players anyway.


And they don't need viewing parties, or celebrations. All the organization needs to do is put the banners up and retire the numbers.

The point is, these guys are huge in regards to the Rangers history. They should be honored, just as players from recent history have been.
Do you think Joe Bag-A-Doughnuts has heard of any of these guys in bold? I would say 90 percent of our fans have not heard of a single one of those. Great as they may have been, they'll never have their numbers retired. The only ones that might ever happen are Greschner and Ratelle, maybe Park. The others are all hurt by time. A Hall of Fame should and must be put in the reno plans.

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02-05-2009, 09:22 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Thomas J. View Post
He was there from the begining when The Devils were terrible & helped get them from a Mickey Mouse team to Winning a Cup.

There is no one in the History Of the Devils Orginization more deserving than John MacClean.
He deserves an honor and a place in the Devils Hall of Fame (when it is built)... but not a jersey retirement... That's a special thing for the fans.

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02-05-2009, 09:23 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Adam Graves (94 Cup)
Brian Leetch (94 Cup)
Mark Messier (94 Cup)
Mike Richter (94 Cup)
Rod Gilbert
Eddie Giacomin
Andy Bathgate
Harry Howell
Ron Greschner
Brad Park
Jean Ratelle
Walt Tkaczuk
Vic Hadfield
Frank Boucher
Bill Cook (28 & 33 Cups)
Fred "Bun" Cook (28 & 33 Cups)
Ivan "Ching" Johnson (28 & 33 Cups)
Butch Keeling (33 Cup)
Murray Murdoch (33 Cup)
Lynn Patrick (40 Cup)
Ott Heller (33 & 40 Cups)
Babe Pratt (40 Cup)

Lester Patrick
Emile Francis

That is the full list of jerseys we should see hanging in the rafters when we go to Madison Square Garden.
That would be stellar but you cannot retire every single person who has produced for the team, it begins to lose its meaning, the Canadiens who have 24 cups don't have that many banners raised. And you also run into the issue of running out of numbers

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02-06-2009, 12:19 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Franchise career leader in scoring...
Not to keep hijacking the thread by talking about the Devils, but MacLean won't be the franchise leader in scoring for very long. Elias is very close to passing him. Two more issues with retiring #15 - it's Langenbrunner's current number, and MacLean (gasp) played briefly for the Rangers before retiring. If (and it's a big if), Langenbrunner captains the Devils to another Cup, I can see #15 retired in both their names.

As for the Rangers - Bill Cook, Jean Ratelle, and Brad Park are legends - the types of guys whose numbers you retire. Maybe Giacomin. Maybe Frank Boucher. Certainly not everyone on that list, so long after they played.

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02-06-2009, 07:37 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Not to keep hijacking the thread by talking about the Devils, but MacLean won't be the franchise leader in scoring for very long. Elias is very close to passing him. Two more issues with retiring #15 - it's Langenbrunner's current number, and MacLean (gasp) played briefly for the Rangers before retiring. If (and it's a big if), Langenbrunner captains the Devils to another Cup, I can see #15 retired in both their names.

As for the Rangers - Bill Cook, Jean Ratelle, and Brad Park are legends - the types of guys whose numbers you retire. Maybe Giacomin. Maybe Frank Boucher. Certainly not everyone on that list, so long after they played.
LOL, retiring Langenbrunner's number?? That's a stretch.

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02-06-2009, 12:02 PM
  #49
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everyone keeps saying there not going to put the older guys numbers up b/c they arent enough fans that remember them or where alive when they played (myself included). the simple fact is when the 94 team raised the cup they should have had most of the names mentioned hangin above them already. what is the reason they waited so long. imo its kinda a slap in the face to raise a banner for 2 guys that havent played in a long time there not going to get the ovations or support from the fans that they would have gotten it there numbers were retired at the right time.

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02-06-2009, 01:14 PM
  #50
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My fondest memories of the Rangers were when they had Brad Park, Jean Ratelle, Walt Tkaczuk and Vic Hadfield. And it's debatable, but I still believe if the Rangers never traded Park, Ratelle and Middleton, they would have won a cup a lot sooner. But it's understandable why certain players from the 94 team get more recognition, they did win the cup. Unfortunately, I never saw Bathgate play and don't now much about him other than what Stan Fischler says.

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