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Old
02-08-2009, 04:12 PM
  #26
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by Talent Analyst View Post
Markov a 6 round pick.
Koivu a #21 pick
Plekanek a third round pick
Sergei a 7 round pick
Pacioretty a #22 pick
Halak a 9 round pick.
and markov is the only one you could argue is a Star in this league. none of those are even on par with the guys i have mentioned. i guess we are going in circles between two threads.

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02-08-2009, 04:13 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
Rebuild? Please guys we need a little of composure here, i know you are all frustrated but lets be serious:

• we are fourth in the east

• Our PP is doing better

• Markov has a shot at the Norris

• We miss one of our top player (Tanguay) when he will come back we shall have a real first line

• The team is playing with no emotion, it has little to do with the structure, let the team take its breath and we could be suprised.

• The 1993 team wasn't that good either, and appart from Roy they didn't have any top end player (at the time of the 1993 run), our team has better player and Price will get his Mojo back, if not Halak will take over.

• Captain Saku is on a mission
Completely agree. Why can't people be happy with the team we have? Would you rather be an Islanders fan? What did you people do when this team sucked? Because if you weren't around, then you shouldn't be allowed to complain. If you were around, then you should realize how fortunate we are. It's one thing to criticize the team - I have my complaints - but people need to take their hands off the panic button.

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02-08-2009, 04:14 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by MONACOBLUE View Post
Completely agree. Why can't people be happy with the team we have? Would you rather be an Islanders fan? What did you people do when this team sucked? Because if you weren't around, then you shouldn't be allowed to complain. If you were around, then you should realize how fortunate we are. It's one thing to criticize the team - I have my complaints - but people need to take their hands off the panic button.
This

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:14 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
Rebuild? Please guys we need a little of composure here, i know you are all frustrated but lets be serious:

• we are fourth in the east

• Our PP is doing better

• Markov has a shot at the Norris

• We miss one of our top player (Tanguay) when he will come back we shall have a real first line

• The team is playing with no emotion, it has little to do with the structure, let the team take its breath and we could be suprised.

• The 1993 team wasn't that good either, and appart from Roy they didn't have any top end player (at the time of the 1993 run), our team has better player and Price will get his Mojo back, if not Halak will take over.

• Captain Saku is on a mission
For how long?

Let's get serious, if we don't get out of this funk any time soon, we'll be on the outside looking in.

Once you get down there, it's tough to close the gap unless you get outside help.

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:16 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by hockeysense View Post
That fine. But there's usually a representative that speaks for a minority, no matter how small that minority is. Do you really believe the Canadiens have the pieces to go all the way?

I was at the game last night and I had the opportunity to talk to a few Habs fans about the team a little after Blake scored his second of the game - they felt that the Habs just don't have any toughness, whatsoever. May answered the bell and that actually gave the Leafs the momentum they needed to carry through the rest of the game.

I'm going to get absolute glee in saying this: You shouldn't have voted in most of your starters to the ASG. Now they are running ragged and exhausted.
You think that because May got tuned up by Laraque, it enabled the Leafs to win the game?

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:16 PM
  #31
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I'm not ready to give up on this team yet. Obviously they aren't playing well but they are certainly better than what they are showing. Hopefully Gainey can make move to get some life in them but the season is far from over or lost like some suggest.

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:19 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
You think that because May got tuned up by Laraque, it enabled the Leafs to win the game?
Middleweight vs. Heavyweight
The fact that May answered the bell to take on the biggest (and possibly best) fighter in the NHL showed the boys that he wasn't going to back down from anything. In effect, it gave the buds a truckload of courage to battle through the dirty play last night

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02-08-2009, 04:19 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
Rebuild? Please guys we need a little of composure here, i know you are all frustrated but lets be serious:

• we are fourth in the east

• Our PP is doing better

• Markov has a shot at the Norris

• We miss one of our top player (Tanguay) when he will come back we shall have a real first line

• The team is playing with no emotion, it has little to do with the structure, let the team take its breath and we could be suprised.

• The 1993 team wasn't that good either, and appart from Roy they didn't have any top end player (at the time of the 1993 run), our team has better player and Price will get his Mojo back, if not Halak will take over.

• Captain Saku is on a mission
Could you post this in every thread please?
I completely agree with everything. Glad to see there are still a few on here who aren't in full panic mode.

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:20 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Andrei Kostopolous View Post
and markov is the only one you could argue is a Star in this league. none of those are even on par with the guys i have mentioned. i guess we are going in circles between two threads.
Our guys are still young, and it takes time to build a winning culture. Guys like Zajac and Gionta developed within a winning NJ system that IS better than ours, but that doesn't mean the Habs will suck forever. Our prospects are great, and they haven't been ruined yet. You just have to be patient. It takes a long time to clean up a big mess like the one Houle (or Corey) caused.

Our prospects are developing well, but they're not going to spit out Zajac or Parise-type performances. They'll take longer than that. The next wave of prospects - after the current wave - will develop quicker. Look at San Jose. They've been good for a while, but they haven't sniffed the Cup yet, and it's taken them until this year to have their prospects such as Vlasic and Setoguchi blossom.

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:20 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
For how long?

Let's get serious, if we don't get out of this funk any time soon, we'll be on the outside looking in.

Once you get down there, it's tough to close the gap unless you get outside help.
Agreed. To add to your point, the 9th and 10th place team in the Eastern conference are 6 and 7 points away from the Habs.

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:22 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeysense View Post
Middleweight vs. Heavyweight
The fact that May answered the bell to take on the biggest (and possibly best) fighter in the NHL showed the boys that he wasn't going to back down from anything. In effect, it gave the buds a truckload of courage to battle through the dirty play last night
Whatever you say lol. That sounds like something Brian Burke would say. I think the Habs just played like **** and the Leafs capitalized, plain and simple.

lol "a truckload of courage".

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:28 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustafa View Post
Rebuild? Please guys we need a little of composure here, i know you are all frustrated but lets be serious:

• we are fourth in the east
6-7 points from the ninth place - Actually Philly won and we are 5th with the same amount of points than NYR

• Our PP is doing better
And our defence and goalies are worse...

• Markov has a shot at the Norris
Who cares ? Points is not everything needed from a star d-man - A bit more leadership would help too

• We miss one of our top player (Tanguay) when he will come back we shall have a real first line
Tanguay was in a big slump when he was injured

• The team is playing with no emotion, it has little to do with the structure, let the team take its breath and we could be suprised.

The coaching staff is very weak.


• The 1993 team wasn't that good either, and appart from Roy they didn't have any top end player (at the time of the 1993 run), our team has better player and Price will get his Mojo back, if not Halak will take over.

I would not call Damphousse, Bellows, Muller, Savard, Carbonneau, Lebeau, Desjardins, Schneider, bottom-lines player !!!

and How will he regain his MOJO ?

• Captain Saku is on a mission
Is he alone ? It seems like it

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:29 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MONACOBLUE View Post
Our guys are still young, and it takes time to build a winning culture. Guys like Zajac and Gionta developed within a winning NJ system that IS better than ours, but that doesn't mean the Habs will suck forever. Our prospects are great, and they haven't been ruined yet. You just have to be patient. It takes a long time to clean up a big mess like the one Houle (or Corey) caused.

Our prospects are developing well, but they're not going to spit out Zajac or Parise-type performances. They'll take longer than that. The next wave of prospects - after the current wave - will develop quicker. Look at San Jose. They've been good for a while, but they haven't sniffed the Cup yet, and it's taken them until this year to have their prospects such as Vlasic and Setoguchi blossom.
but this goes back to my original question. What do these teams do differently. We are talking 10 years now of very little star power that has manufactured by this organization. A winning atmosphere sure helps. Is it the fact some teams have their minor leagues use the same system so a player can come up and now their role and expectations? Are we putting guys in positions to succeed with proper supporting cast? Are guys being restricted in their development in order to improve other areas of their game.

Montreal seems to be getting guys to a level and not beyond. We all see flashes of Higgins and AKosts but why can't they hit that next level.

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:30 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by HFboarder View Post
Instead of winning the Stanley cup, Gainey must trade Kovalev, Koivu and Hamrlik.

Thanks.
Holy Over-Reaction

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:36 PM
  #40
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Bandwagonners these days...

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:37 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei Kostopolous View Post
but this goes back to my original question. What do these teams do differently. We are talking 10 years now of very little star power that has manufactured by this organization. A winning atmosphere sure helps. Is it the fact some teams have their minor leagues use the same system so a player can come up and now their role and expectations? Are we putting guys in positions to succeed with proper supporting cast? Are guys being restricted in their development in order to improve other areas of their game.

Montreal seems to be getting guys to a level and not beyond. We all see flashes of Higgins and AKosts but why can't they hit that next level.
Well, we just don't have the personnel of a NJ or Detroit. It's not because our coaches and training staff are bad, but it's because they haven't won anything. Same thing with the leaders on the team. Does that mean they'll never win anything? Of course not, but it's more of a struggle to start winning than it is to become consistent winners. It took NJ and Detroit a lot of suckage before they got to where they are now. Not all their personnel when they were hired were known as winners, either.

One issue with the Habs is that the media never let this team tank so they don't have the benefit of any top picks other than the lucky year we got Price. But don't hold that against Gainey or company. We will never have that quick shortcut, but it isn't his fault. Even NJ sucked once and got high picks. But we just don't have that luxury in Montreal.

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:41 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by MONACOBLUE View Post
Well, we just don't have the personnel of a NJ or Detroit. It's not because our coaches and training staff are bad, but it's because they haven't won anything. Same thing with the leaders on the team. Does that mean they'll never win anything? Of course not, but it's more of a struggle to start winning than it is to become consistent winners. It took NJ and Detroit a lot of suckage before they got to where they are now. Not all their personnel when they were hired were known as winners, either.

One issue with the Habs is that the media never let this team tank so they don't have the benefit of any top picks other than the lucky year we got Price. But don't hold that against Gainey or company. We will never have that quick shortcut, but it isn't his fault. Even NJ sucked once and got high picks. But we just don't have that luxury in Montreal.
I always thought this was a big problem, that we never took the time to actually re-build with top picks and adding assets that would complement them.

Imagine if we had tanked the 01-02 season, 02-03 and 03-04, not to mention trade Theodore for Kovalchuk.

Hindsight sucks, but this team would have been much better off. And it's all a big fantasy, so no need to or other types of condascending smilies.

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:45 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
I always thought this was a big problem, that we never took the time to actually re-build with top picks and adding assets that would complement them.

Imagine if we had tanked the 01-02 season, 02-03 and 03-04, not to mention trade Theodore for Kovalchuk.

Hindsight sucks, but this team would have been much better off. And it's all a big fantasy, so no need to or other types of condascending smilies.
the Andre Savard 5 year plan of mediocrity. Putting a team that could contend for playoffs maybe even make it up but not to the extent of tanking.

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:49 PM
  #44
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Trade Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay, Lang, Boullion, Dandenault and Hamrlik. No need for veterans on the team. Brisebois can be put on waivers.

Trade Higgins, Plekanec, Latendresse and D'Agostini. RFA's are the risk of being picked up in the off season or we'd have to overpay for them. Hell, if we can't take them, lets just hope for someone to pick them off RFA and take the picks.

Trade Laraque, O'Byrne, Kostopolous and Begin. Clearly this team has no use for third stringers and fourth liners and the last we need to do is overpay for a tough guy. We made that mistake with Georges. Cut them loose.

Lose the Kostitsyn brothers. Young or not they clearly are already inconsistent. Can't deal with another season of inconsistency.

Mike Komisarek will cost us far too much in free agency. Trade him.

Andrei Markov is our only real "superstar" and is our leading scorer. That means he'd be wonderful trade bait. Who wouldn't want to add Markov on his salary?

Maxim Lapierre and Josh Gorges are young and have good priced contracts. Very good value to toss with an injured Lang to make sure a deal gets done.

Max Pacioretty is one of our hardest workers. I bet we could net a first round pick plus for him.

Jaroslav Halak is not that good of a backup. Fernandez, Clemmenson and Anderson? Those are good back-ups. He can get going.

Carey Price is clearly Jim Carey. Flash in the pan. Certainly nowhere near as good as Mason in Columbus. What a joke. Maybe McGuire was right, he was the wrong move. Colorado always loves goalies from us. Third times a charm right?

What does that leave us with?

Oh right, a different team.

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:52 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeysense View Post
That fine. But there's usually a representative that speaks for a minority, no matter how small that minority is. Do you really believe the Canadiens have the pieces to go all the way?

I was at the game last night and I had the opportunity to talk to a few Habs fans about the team a little after Blake scored his second of the game - they felt that the Habs just don't have any toughness, whatsoever. May answered the bell and that actually gave the Leafs the momentum they needed to carry through the rest of the game.

I'm going to get absolute glee in saying this: You shouldn't have voted in most of your starters to the ASG. Now they are running ragged and exhausted.
Nah I know for a fact we don't have enough to make a cup run, but we aren't in bad enough shape to rebuild either. We won't make it to the semi-finals this year, but I do feel that soon once we get our prospects to fluorish like Boston and Philly's then we will be a contender. But until then we lack the extra D that helps solidify our D core, we lack depth, offense, and grit down the middle. And we need a firestarter or impact player on the front lines. So no I don't think we are in the cup run, but I do think we are passed the point of rebuilding, we are inconsistent, we are not Tampa Bay or Toronto (no offense).

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Old
02-08-2009, 04:54 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFboarder View Post
Instead of winning the Stanley cup, Gainey must trade Kovalev, Koivu and Hamrlik.

Thanks.
It's bad right now, but it's not that bad.

Things need to be addressed, but Koivu and Hammer are part of the solution, not the problem.

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Old
02-08-2009, 05:02 PM
  #47
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Guys that needs to go:

Christopher "Stone Hands" Higgins
Kyle "I can't skate and win face-offs to save my life, but I might have leadership skills" Chipchura
Alexei "The Artist" Kovalev
Tomas "Little Girl" Plekanec
Francis "Cube" Bouillon
Patrice "Bois Mort" Brisebois
George "I Don't know how to play hockey" Laraque
Mathieu "Useless" Dandenault
Steve "Talentless" Begin
Robert "Too Old" Lang
Tom "Stone Hands disciple" Kostopoulos
Alex "Softer than Butter" Tanguay

Trade them for picks, prospects or whatever I don't care... Just get rid of theses guys while they might have some values left...


Guys you need to build around:

Andrei Markov
Saku Koivu
Sergei Kostitsyn
Andrei Kostitsyn
Carey Price
Mike Komisarek
Max Pacioretty
Maxime Lapierre
Ben Maxwell
Josh Gorges
Roman Hamrlik
Guillaume Latendresse



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Old
02-08-2009, 05:06 PM
  #48
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We definitely dont need a rebuild, because we have to many pieces already to rebuild. I think we MIGHT need to patch up some spots though that we are lacking. I wouldn't trade Koivu or Hammer, but I wouldnt be opposed to moving guys like kovalev, higgins, bouillon, Plex, Halak. We'll see what happens after this road trip.

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Old
02-08-2009, 05:06 PM
  #49
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I don't think it's crazy to think rebuild if it's a limited one. But it's not going to happen.

On the one hand, if the team is even in 5th or 6th spot as the deadline approaches, he'll have to make a move and hope the team exceeds (what will by then be) modest expectations for the post-season.

If the team continues to slide, however, and is hovering between 7th and 9th, Gainey will have to make a move and hope the team gets to the post-season and then exceeds expectations.

Either way, Gainey is going to have to make a move. And it's probably not going to be one that says "rebuild".

Kovalev is done as a Hab unless he carries the team the rest of the way and through the playoffs. It's because rational people don't see that happening that they call for a rebuild. And it's not crazy.

As for Koivu, he's got to be a number 2 centre. Plekanec's play has been a real disappointment, and it has put the centre position back on the front burner.

Personally, I would not wait for the deadline. I'd move now to change the dynamic in the lockeroom. If I could get a decent return for Kovalev (almost anything) I'd do it, and send a clear message to the under-26 crowd in the lockeroom: we're going to do this with young legs and discipline, or we're not going to do it at all.

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02-08-2009, 06:29 PM
  #50
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I don't think it's crazy to think rebuild if it's a limited one. But it's not going to happen.

On the one hand, if the team is even in 5th or 6th spot as the deadline approaches, he'll have to make a move and hope the team exceeds (what will by then be) modest expectations for the post-season.

If the team continues to slide, however, and is hovering between 7th and 9th, Gainey will have to make a move and hope the team gets to the post-season and then exceeds expectations.

Either way, Gainey is going to have to make a move. And it's probably not going to be one that says "rebuild".

Kovalev is done as a Hab unless he carries the team the rest of the way and through the playoffs. It's because rational people don't see that happening that they call for a rebuild. And it's not crazy.

As for Koivu, he's got to be a number 2 centre. Plekanec's play has been a real disappointment, and it has put the centre position back on the front burner.

Personally, I would not wait for the deadline. I'd move now to change the dynamic in the lockeroom. If I could get a decent return for Kovalev (almost anything) I'd do it, and send a clear message to the under-26 crowd in the lockeroom: we're going to do this with young legs and discipline, or we're not going to do it at all.
Agreed. This team is going nowhere if Higgins/pleks/Kost bros. don't pick it up. They need to realize this is their team, not Koivu's or Kovy's, and be accountable for their play.

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