HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Boston and Toronto

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-09-2009, 12:56 PM
  #101
leaky37
Registered User
 
leaky37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Are you perpetually excited... man that's a lot of exclamation marks .

As for Bergeron being constantly hurt, aside from the concussion the guy has little injury issue. Kubina's career however has been riddled by injury.

Right now, Bergeron's value to the team far exceeds his value to another team, because as you mentioned he is coming off serious injury. That doesn't mean Boston is going to trade him for pennies on the dollar, just the opposite in fact, it means they'd be silly not to keep him, especially considering the value of his versatility come playoffs. He plays the point on the PP, plays the PK, and once he gets his game back in order is a very dangerous EV strength player.

The ridiculous part of all this is seeing the numerous trade proposals for the kid where people think he can be had for something that is far less then his actual overall value, simply because he has had a concussion. If Bergeron hadn't of had those concussions, we don't see any of these proposals.

Imagine if in every proposal, Bruins fans said Kaberle was worth at most, Aaron Ward and a 2nd because of Kaberle's past concussion issues. Oh, and hey, we'd want a conditional pick as well, you know, in case Kaberle's got injured again. It'd be maddening wouldn't it.
You must be thinking about some other Kubina. In the last 9 years which is 738 GP he has only missed 83GP in those 9 seasons and the majority of those games he missed were due to suspensions. Bergeron in the last 3 years missed 78Games out of 246 possible games! If you had Kubina you wouldn't need to put a forward back on the point during the PP. Kubina has a great shot from the point and it shows that with his 8 goals so far this year. Like I said before it would be a huge risk just for the leafs to do this trade! It could pan out for them or it could bite them in the A$$. Hense the Conditional pick, but I don't think you know what a conditional pick means because the trade that was proposed was Kubina for Bergeron Strait up, but to compensate the leafs if Bergeron were to never stay healthy and be on the LTI the leafs would get a pick, but if he met certain conditions then there would be no pick involved. Also like I said, I would much rather get a prospect and a Late first for Kubina!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

leaky37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 12:58 PM
  #102
embracedbias
Registered User
 
embracedbias's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Waterloo
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Yes, a highly rated prospect coming off injury in his first full pro season, is worth more then an injury prone underachieving UFA.
Who?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oip123123 View Post
Bruins cant afford Kubina.
Antropov- Underachieving, Expensive
Ponikerovsky- Bruins may be interisted since he is cheap and has a good shot.

embracedbias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:00 PM
  #103
grabo84
Registered User
 
grabo84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bb_fan View Post
not to nit pick here, but Bergeron has had a full recovery as well.
Hard to say that yet. He had that concussion scare earlier this season. That sort of thing is notorious for popping up. If he plays out the season symptom free I'll agree with you.

grabo84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:06 PM
  #104
Kaoz
Ima Krejciist.
 
Kaoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaky37 View Post
You must be thinking about some other Kubina. In the last 9 years which is 738 GP he has only missed 83GP in those 9 seasons and the majority of those games he missed were due to suspensions. Bergeron in the last 3 years missed 78Games out of 246 possible games! If you had Kubina you wouldn't need to put a forward back on the point during the PP. Kubina has a great shot from the point and it shows that with his 8 goals so far this year. Like I said before it would be a huge risk just for the leafs to do this trade! It could pan out for them or it could bite them in the A$$. Hense the Conditional pick, but I don't think you know what a conditional pick means because the trade that was proposed was Kubina for Bergeron Strait up, but to compensate the leafs if Bergeron were to never stay healthy and be on the LTI the leafs would get a pick, but if he met certain conditions then there would be no pick involved. Also like I said, I would much rather get a prospect and a Late first for Kubina!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!
We are talking about minor injuries right?

Quote:
06-Dec-07 Missed 10 games (right knee injury).
11-Nov-07 Right knee injury, sidelined indefinitely.
06-Mar-07 Missed 5 games (broken finger).
24-Feb-07 Broken finger, early March.
16-Nov-06 Missed 15 games (knee injury).
11-Nov-06 Knee injury, day-to-day.
10-Oct-06 Knee injury, late November.
02-Oct-06 Suspended by the NHL for 1 game.
01-Jul-06 Signed as an unrestricted free agent by the Toronto Maple Leafs to a four-year contract.
06-Apr-06 Missed 3 games (lower body injury).
29-Mar-06 Lower body injury, day-to-day.
27-Mar-06 Lower body injury, left Monday's game.
26-Dec-05 Missed 2 games (strained groin).
22-Dec-05 Strained groin, day-to-day.
17-Sep-04 NHL lockout: Signed with the HC Vitkovice of the Czech Extraleague.
03-Aug-04 Re-signed by the Tampa Bay Lightning to a two-year contract.
16-Jul-04 Filed for salary arbitration.
03-Jun-04 Missed Game 4 of the Stanley Cup Finals against the Calgary Flames (unknow).
31-May-04 Unknown, day-to-day.
25-Feb-03 Missed 3 games (sore neck).

18-Feb-03 Sore neck, day-to-day.
17-Feb-03 Sore neck, left Monday's game.
14-Dec-02 Missed 1 game (bruised foot).
12-Dec-02 Bruised foot, day-to-day.
22-Jul-02 Re-signed by the Tampa Bay Lightning to a multi-year contract.
15-Mar-01 Missed 8 games (knee injury).
25-Feb-01 Knee injury, day-to-day.
11-Nov-00 Missed 2 games (concussion).
05-Nov-00 Concussion, day-to-day.
Bergerons time missed is attributable to one major injury. Kubina on the other hand has missed a full season in his career due to the multitude of minor injuries he's had. I'm not saying he's injury prone, I'm saying your statement about Bergeron being constantly injured is false. He, like many NHL players has had a concussion. Others, including your own Tomas Kaberle have made full recoveries from Grade 3 concussions so unless you want to compare Kaberle to Lindros, the point should be clear.

As for you wanting Bergeron.. well I'd like to see Kaberle for Ward and a pick, I mean really, Ward has never had a major injury like a grade 3 concussion, and Kaberle has. He's got cup experience, something Kaberle doesn't. Sure he's a little older, a little less talented and his contract is up sooner, but at least you guys don't have to worry about Kaberle getting a potentially career ending concussion.

Yes Ward is older, less talented

Kaoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:08 PM
  #105
leaky37
Registered User
 
leaky37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bb_fan View Post
not to nit pick here, but Bergeron has had a full recovery as well.
Yeah full recovery twice! He is just commenting on leaf fans valuing Kaberle to high for having a concussion and he has a point. Kaberle recovered from his concussion in 8 games and never had a problem since, however, Bergeron missed 72 games last year and all the playoffs except game 7 i believe? and he missed more games this year because of another not so serious concussion! So all in all he is just saying that Kaberle's value didn't drop as much as Bergerons did due to concussions like someone pointed out earlier! I like his statement as well about it being a bad trade for both teams.

leaky37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:08 PM
  #106
Kaoz
Ima Krejciist.
 
Kaoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by embracedbias View Post
Who?



The guy who's never seen a full NHL season in the decade he's played in it (seeing the 70 game mark just twice in that span), and has scored more then 20 goals once.

Sorry, forgot that he's a verifiable supastar!

Kaoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:09 PM
  #107
grabo84
Registered User
 
grabo84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
As for you wanting Bergeron.. well I'd like to see Kaberle for Ward and a pick, I mean really, Ward has never had a major injury like a grade 3 concussion, and Kaberle has. He's got cup experience, something Kaberle doesn't. Sure he's a little older, a little less talented and his contract is up sooner, but at least you guys don't have to worry about Kaberle getting a potentially career ending concussion.
Just get off that argument, please.

As far as Kubina goes, there's a difference between recurring injuries and minor injuries that you get from playing a physical game. Kubina blocks a lot of shots, he's bound to miss some games.

grabo84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:12 PM
  #108
Kaoz
Ima Krejciist.
 
Kaoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Just get off that argument, please.

As far as Kubina goes, there's a difference between recurring injuries and minor injuries that you get from playing a physical game. Kubina blocks a lot of shots, he's bound to miss some games.
And there's a difference between being injury prone, and recovering from one serious concussion.

And I have no problem getting off the argument, as soon as Leafs fans stop talking about Bergeron like he's a throw in for an expiring contract or 1 year rental simply because he's recovered from a concussion. It's ridiculous and you see a thread suggesting it once a week.

Kaoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:17 PM
  #109
grabo84
Registered User
 
grabo84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
And there's a difference between being injury prone, and recovering from one serious concussion.

And I have no problem getting off the argument, as soon as Leafs fans stop talking about Bergeron like he's a throw in for an expiring contract or 1 year rental simply because he's recovered from a concussion. It's ridiculous and you see a thread suggesting it once a week.
I hope he is fully recovered, and things work out. Like I said, from now on there should just be a moratorium on Bergeron proposals. No response to them whatsoever. Come up with some standard response to it or something.

grabo84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:17 PM
  #110
leaky37
Registered User
 
leaky37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
We are talking about minor injuries right?



Bergerons time missed is attributable to one major injury. Kubina on the other hand has missed a full season in his career due to the multitude of minor injuries he's had. I'm not saying he's injury prone, I'm saying your statement about Bergeron being constantly injured is false. He, like many NHL players has had a concussion. Others, including your own Tomas Kaberle have made full recoveries from Grade 3 concussions so unless you want to compare Kaberle to Lindros, the point should be clear.

As for you wanting Bergeron.. well I'd like to see Kaberle for Ward and a pick, I mean really, Ward has never had a major injury like a grade 3 concussion, and Kaberle has. He's got cup experience, something Kaberle doesn't. Sure he's a little older, a little less talented and his contract is up sooner, but at least you guys don't have to worry about Kaberle getting a potentially career ending concussion.

Yes Ward is older, less talented

okay for one! I've stated at least 3 times now that I don't want Bergeron... I only said that this trade seemed fair to me. Second of all all those injuriest that you posted could happen to anyone that plays defense and blocks a lot of shots and are getting beat around in the corners! I think thats a pretty good stat that in 9 years he missed a total of 1 year in injuries. Therefore is a good defenseman to have considering he is averaging 20+ mins a game. Bergeron on the other hand has missed almost one season out of 3 which isn't a very good stat. Kaberle took 8 games to recover from that concussion and he hasn't had one since while Bergeron took 78 games to recover and missed another 15 games this year due to another concussion. So thats 93 games missed due to concussion over Kaberle's 8, but Kaberle is the one to worry about a career ending concussion! Good one

leaky37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:19 PM
  #111
Nikita Filatov*
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,301
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Nikita Filatov*
Quote:
Originally Posted by alesmarv View Post

Kubina(5mill 1 year) FOR Bergeron(4.75mill 2 years) + cond pick 2011

Kubina + Antropov FOR Bergeron + 1st + conditional pick 2011(like before)
PLEASE, just stop. You're not getting Bergeron. Just stop. He's better than Kubina offensively and defensively. If you want him you're giving up Schenn or your 1st this season.

You can give me all this **** about his concussion and blah blah blah, that doesn't lower his value to the Bruins one ounce.

Nikita Filatov* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:22 PM
  #112
Nikita Filatov*
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,301
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Nikita Filatov*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
As for you wanting Bergeron.. well I'd like to see Kaberle for Ward and a pick, I mean really, Ward has never had a major injury like a grade 3 concussion, and Kaberle has. He's got cup experience, something Kaberle doesn't. Sure he's a little older, a little less talented and his contract is up sooner, but at least you guys don't have to worry about Kaberle getting a potentially career ending concussion.

Yes Ward is older, less talented

Don't forget he has a cheaper cap hit.

Cap hit is much more important than winning.

Nikita Filatov* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:23 PM
  #113
Kaoz
Ima Krejciist.
 
Kaoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaky37 View Post
okay for one! I've stated at least 3 times now that I don't want Bergeron... I only said that this trade seemed fair to me. Second of all all those injuriest that you posted could happen to anyone that plays defense and blocks a lot of shots and are getting beat around in the corners! I think thats a pretty good stat that in 9 years he missed a total of 1 year in injuries. Therefore is a good defenseman to have considering he is averaging 20+ mins a game. Bergeron on the other hand has missed almost one season out of 3 which isn't a very good stat. Kaberle took 8 games to recover from that concussion and he hasn't had one since while Bergeron took 78 games to recover and missed another 15 games this year due to another concussion. So thats 93 games missed due to concussion over Kaberle's 8, but Kaberle is the one to worry about a career ending concussion! Good one
Ah I see, so it's not the severity of the concussion, it's the time it takes to recover from it that explains a players value when it comes to trade?

Please.

Kaberle had a grade 3 concussion and is now susceptible for another, just as much as Bergeron is. He gets clocked, he's just as likely (if not more likely due to age) to have his career ended as Bergeron is. That's all there is to it.

Bergeron is not a throw in for a trade because he had a concussion.

Kaoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:31 PM
  #114
grabo84
Registered User
 
grabo84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,448
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Ah I see, so it's not the severity of the concussion, it's the time it takes to recover from it that explains a players value when it comes to trade?

Please.

Kaberle had a grade 3 concussion and is now more succeptable just as much as Bergeron is. He gets clocked, he's just as likely (if not more likely due to age) to have his career ended as Bergeron is. That's all there is to it.

Bergeron is not a throw in for a trade because he had a concussion.
This is unbelievable. Of course time spent recovering is important, because it reflects on the severity of the concussion. Concussions don't fit into handy little grade systems, thats just a rough estimate at time of diagnosis. A healthy player who has had two trouble free seasons following a concussion is not at risk in the same way a player who just recently had a second concussion is.

A better example for this is Gagne, his situation is a lot closer to Bergeron's. I agree that Bergeron is not a throw in for a trade, that is obvious.

I understand that you're trying to rebut Leaky, but I'm telling you, that is a ridiculous argument.

grabo84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:35 PM
  #115
leaky37
Registered User
 
leaky37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikita Filatov View Post
PLEASE, just stop. You're not getting Bergeron. Just stop. He's better than Kubina offensively and defensively. If you want him you're giving up Schenn or your 1st this season.

You can give me all this **** about his concussion and blah blah blah, that doesn't lower his value to the Bruins one ounce.
Schenn is worth way more then Bergeron! I mean schenn almost got a full season under his belt at 19 and is close to passing Bergeron in total GP

I'm sick of stating that we don't want Bergeron, we would rather get a draft pick and a prospect for Kubina because teams would gladly give that up for him. We never once said that Bergeron is a bad player, but due to his recent history of concussions his value has dropped whether Bruins fans like it or not. Really who wants to trade for a guy that missed 93 games in the last 2 years with a concussion? Sure he is a great deal of talent but seriously right now there isn't much value for him to be traded by the bruins, he is more valuable right now for them to keep him. Stop right there, don't bring up Kaberles concussion because its not the same situation. As for the Kaberle for Ward and a pick proposal you made, Toronto is in rebuild mode so I seriously doubt that they would trade for Veterans unless its a salary dump and they are UFA's

leaky37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:39 PM
  #116
zeke
#TeamReimer
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,041
vCash: 500
Bergeron is very tough value to assess.

What we know about him is that at this point, he's healthy enough to be a quality 3rd line centre.

He's locked in at almost $5 mil for two more years.

And he's still a massive injury risk, and can in no way be counted on to be healthy for the remainder of his contract.

That being said, this kid was an elite player at ages 20-21, and there's always a chance that he can get back there - but the odds on that get longer with each passing game.

We also know that with Savard and Krejci up the middle, and Kessel, Ryder, Wheeler, Lucic, Sturm, and Kobasew on the wings, the Bruins don't exactly NEED to wait on Bergeron to see if he can get back to what he used to be.

If the Bruins are going for a cup run right now, and they can move Bergeron and his contract and get a quality top-pair defenseman and a decent 3rd line centre replacement, without giving up any extra assets other than a 29th overall pick, they might be well served to do it.

zeke is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:40 PM
  #117
Kaoz
Ima Krejciist.
 
Kaoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,599
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
This is unbelievable. Of course time spent recovering is important, because it reflects on the severity of the concussion. Concussions don't fit into handy little grade systems, thats just a rough estimate at time of diagnosis. A healthy player who has had two trouble free seasons following a concussion is not at risk in the same way a player who just recently had a second concussion is.

A better example for this is Gagne, his situation is a lot closer to Bergeron's. I agree that Bergeron is not a throw in for a trade, that is obvious.

I understand that you're trying to rebut Leaky, but I'm telling you, that is a ridiculous argument.
Is it? There's a reason grade three concussions are the highest level. There is no grade 4.

When you're hit that hard that it renders you unconscious the chemicals in your brain become severly imbalanced whether you return 8 days, or a full season later.

Kaberle is lucky he didn't get hit that hard again soon after returning, else we very well may not be talking about his trade value today. The recovery time for a grade 3 concussion is something along the lines of at least 6 weeks, coming back before hand is incredibly dangerous.

Make no mistake, one Grade 3 concussion is serious business, and if Kaberle were to suffer another he could very well be done. Same as Bergeron. Same as Gagne. People like to bring up Bergerons because it was recent and they think it decreases his value enough that they can obtain him via trade for a dream... all the while not realizing he is a very integral part to the current Bruins lineup (tell me they play just as well without him, and I'll tell you you don't watch enough B's games).

Dismissing Bergerons value due to his major and mild concussion is as asinine as me diminishing Kaberles because he had a grade 3 concussion 2 years ago.

The only valid argument on this to diminish Bergeron's value is that he hasn't put up the same numbers since returning from the major concussion, and for some reason this doesn't come up in these threads. Doesn't matter however as it can be easily explained by missing an entire season of hockey, and a changed role on the current Bruins squad.

Kaoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:47 PM
  #118
Nikita Filatov*
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,301
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Nikita Filatov*
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaky37 View Post
Schenn is worth way more then Bergeron! I mean schenn almost got a full season under his belt at 19 and is close to passing Bergeron in total GP
And Bergeron is 10X as talented as Schenn.

Joke=Not funny.

Quote:
I'm sick of stating that we don't want Bergeron,
Good thing you're not a GM. If Burke was offered a 2 time 70 point shutdown center at just 23 years old, he'd hop on that deal.

Quote:
we would rather get a draft pick and a prospect for Kubina because teams would gladly give that up for him.
Pick+Prospect>>>>>>>Proven, young, 70 point shutdown centers.
Quote:
We never once said that Bergeron is a bad player, but due to his recent history of concussions his value has dropped whether Bruins fans like it or not.
Maybe to other teams. Not to the Bruins. Is that hard to understand? His recent history of concussions, is just about as long as Kaberle's.

Quote:
Really who wants to trade for a guy that missed 93 games in the last 2 years with a concussion?
Who would want to trade for:

20-30 goal scorer
40+ assist
70+ point
Shutdown
Great leader
23 years old
?

Every team in the NHL would want him if he were put on the block. Luckily, the Bruins aren't run by idiots.
Quote:
Sure he is a great deal of talent but seriously right now there isn't much value for him to be traded by the bruins, he is more valuable right now for them to keep him.
Yea.... And?
Quote:
Stop right there, don't bring up Kaberles concussion because its not the same situation.
But it is.
Quote:
As for the Kaberle for Ward and a pick proposal you made, Toronto is in rebuild mode so I seriously doubt that they would trade for Veterans unless its a salary dump and they are UFA's
But Ward is cheaper than Kaberle. According to Leafs fans Cap space is much better than talent.

Nikita Filatov* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:47 PM
  #119
leaky37
Registered User
 
leaky37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 983
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
Is it? There's a reason grade three concussions are the highest level. There is no grade 4.

When you're hit that hard that it renders you unconscious the chemicals in your brain become severly imbalanced whether you return 8 days, or a full season later.

Kaberle is lucky he didn't get hit that hard again soon after returning, else we very well may not be talking about his trade value today. The recovery time for a grade 3 concussion is something along the lines of at least 6 weeks, coming back before hand is incredibly dangerous.

Make no mistake, one Grade 3 concussion is serious business, and if Kaberle were to suffer another he could very well be done. Same as Bergeron. Same as Gagne. People like to bring up Bergerons because it was recent and they think it decreases his value enough that they can obtain him via trade for a dream... all the while not realizing he is a very integral part to the current Bruins lineup (tell me they play just as well without him, and I'll tell you you don't watch enough B's games).

Dismissing Bergerons value due to his major and mild concussion is as asinine as me diminishing Kaberles because he had a grade 3 concussion 2 years ago.

The only valid argument on this to diminish Bergeron's value is that he hasn't put up the same numbers since returning from the major concussion, and for some reason this doesn't come up in these threads. Doesn't matter however as it can be easily explained by missing an entire season of hockey, and a changed role on the current Bruins squad.

I'm done arguing about this! No one said that Bergeron was worth crap, Kubina isn't worth crap! Like it or lump it Kubina is a very good defenseman. All we said is that teams would be cautious about making a trade for Bergeron due to his situation right now(trade value down). STILL a very good player, but as we stated earlier, Boston is doing fine without him in the line-up the last two years. So calm your nerves because we don't want him we just stated that it was of fair value right now! Everyone is allowed their own opinion and I watch hockey,play hockey and ref hockey(pretty much live for hockey) so I know good hockey players. Grabo seems to know an aweful lot about hockey as well, but when it comes to talking the truth about other teams players we are in the wrong But every player on the Leafs suck and are worth nothing

leaky37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:48 PM
  #120
zeke
#TeamReimer
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,041
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoz View Post
The only valid argument on this to diminish Bergeron's value is that he hasn't put up the same numbers since returning from the major concussion, and for some reason this doesn't come up in these threads. Doesn't matter however as it can be easily explained by missing an entire season of hockey, and a changed role on the current Bruins squad.
But isn't that the ENTIRE argument?

If Bergeron was playing now like he did before the injury, there wouldn't be nearly the question mark on his value.

But the fact of the matter is that him being permanently diminished as a player (like many post-concussion players have been before) is a very real possibility.

Considering the Bruins would obviously much rather spend caphit on much less risky propositions like Kessel and Krejci, and that any team taking Bergeron on has to face the real fact that they might be paying $5 mil the next couple of years for a 3rd line centre, his value is obviously very questionable.

Moreover, considering that the Bruins are trying to make a cup run THIS YEAR, and that they have plenty of youth outside of Bergeron to take care of their future, then moving Bergeron for what is still a quality return - in this case a proven cup-wining two-way top-pair defenseman locked in for next year - has to be a real considertaion.

And given that whoever is taking Bergeron is taking on much more risk than the Bruins would be by taking on a proven top-pair defenseman locked in for next year, you have to think the Bruins would have to add something decent to make the deal work.

zeke is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:50 PM
  #121
zeke
#TeamReimer
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,041
vCash: 500
And the Kaberle comparison is silly - Kaberle continues to produce as an elite defensemen since his "concussion".

Bergeron has not.

That is all the difference in the world.

zeke is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:50 PM
  #122
Nikita Filatov*
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,301
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Nikita Filatov*
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post

That being said, this kid was an elite player at ages 20-21, and there's always a chance that he can get back there - but the odds on that get longer with each passing game.
He's also been getting better each game... So....????

Quote:
We also know that with Savard and Krejci up the middle, and Kessel, Ryder, Wheeler, Lucic, Sturm, and Kobasew on the wings, the Bruins don't exactly NEED to wait on Bergeron to see if he can get back to what he used to be.
If Bergeron wasn't better than all of them, I might agree.
Quote:
If the Bruins are going for a cup run right now, and they can move Bergeron and his contract and get a quality top-pair defenseman and a decent 3rd line centre replacement, without giving up any extra assets other than a 29th overall pick, they might be well served to do it.
Or they could keep him? I mean, that would be the smart thing to do.

Nikita Filatov* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:51 PM
  #123
8BostonRocker24
Registered User
 
8BostonRocker24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Gatos via Boston
Country: China
Posts: 9,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
But isn't that the ENTIRE argument?

If Bergeron was playing now like he did before the injury, there wouldn't be nearly the question mark on his value.

But the fact of the matter is that him being permanently diminished as a player (like many post-concussion players have been before) is a very real possibility.

Considering the Bruins would obviously much rather spend caphit on much less risky propositions like Kessel and Krejci, and that any team taking Bergeron on has to face the real fact that they might be paying $5 mil the next couple of years for a 3rd line centre, his value is obviously very questionable.

Moreover, considering that the Bruins are trying to make a cup run THIS YEAR, and that they have plenty of youth outside of Bergeron to take care of their future, then moving Bergeron for what is still a quality return - in this case a proven cup-wining two-way top-pair defenseman locked in for next year - has to be a real considertaion.

And given that whoever is taking Bergeron is taking on much more risk than the Bruins would be by taking on a proven top-pair defenseman locked in for next year, you have to think the Bruins would have to add something decent to make the deal work.
Leafs fans are pushing this deal way too hard, while Boston fans have zero interest in it. What does that tell you?

8BostonRocker24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:52 PM
  #124
Nikita Filatov*
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,301
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Nikita Filatov*
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeke View Post
And the Kaberle comparison is silly - Kaberle continues to produce as an elite defensemen since his "concussion".

Bergeron has not.

That is all the difference in the world.
And...... WRONG. He's been our best defensive forward and is scoring at a nice pace considering what he's been through.

And I'll continue with my thought that Bergeron is better, not only offensively than Kaberle, but defensively as well.

Nikita Filatov* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2009, 01:53 PM
  #125
zeke
#TeamReimer
 
zeke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,041
vCash: 500
If they could move him and get a proven cup-winning top-pair defender (and fill the only hole on the entire team in the process) and a quality replacement 3rd line centre, they would probably be better off in terms of making a cup run both this year and next eyar.

zeke is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:55 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.