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Is Gainey the problem?

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:30 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by cprice31 View Post
Bob Gainey has been GM since 2003. When he entered - in 2003 - these were the Habs main criticsm's:

-Small / Soft
-Lack of size at center
-Lack of true offensive potential

Although he's built quite a pipeline of solid prospects (yet nobody with any kind of high-end potential)....OUR ISSUES REMAIN THE SAME.

-We are still small and soft.
-We still dont have any size down the middle, and the only hope we have is in the name of Kyle Chipchura (Ben Maxwell aint a big kid).
-We still lack high-end offensive potential.



So what has changed since 2003? Why have other teams remained competitive, and even re-invented themselves in a shorter period of time (boston/anaheim/philly/nyj/detroit/san jose).

At some point, Bob needs to be held responsible..he's most likely the most over-rated GM in the league.
I don't think you can place the blame on the GM. Watching the last few games the defense has been very weak, people are losing one-on-one battles, no one want to take a hit to make a play...the list is endless.

I think the problem is Gainey's hands are tied. Who's he going to trade for? Most teams aren't going to trade away good assets for cheap and the real cost isn't going to be anyone on our current roster. Teams our looking at a prospect pool and looking to bleed us for them.

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02-09-2009, 10:30 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Everyone thought Gainey's moves were good. With hindsight we can see there are a lot of problems with that lineup. It's not too late to fix it, but clearly this team doesn't have what it takes to win intense games (like in the playoffs).

Not enough size and intensity up front and our defensemen suck (except Markov, and Hamrlik even he's not having a good season). And of course the lack of experience in goals.

You won't win a cup with a bunch of Kostitsyns for sure.

How are the coaches supposed make a winning team out of those guys?
To be honest Hamrlik's cap hit is scaring me. The guy's game has gone downhill this year I feel. And considering that he's locked in until 11/12 at 5.5...man.

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02-09-2009, 10:31 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Gainey cant make a trade to save his life, he lives by the saying...

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt"

Unfortunatly the other 29 gms actively try and improve their teams and consistantly outdo him. Gainey has had 5 years now and has accomplished next to nothing.
The 29 other GMs? You mean like Don Waddell, who went out and "improved" his team by trading Coburn and Zhitnik? Even if this team doesn't win this year, there's still next year. No need to panic, people. Gainey has made tons of good moves and a few bad ones. Jeez, if you people think this is bad management, go look at Waddell, Garth Snow, Bryan Murray, Francois Giguere, etc.

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02-09-2009, 10:31 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by LesCanadiens View Post
Gainey is awesome. The players are undermining his efforts, IMO.
Not saying that Gainey is bad, but he made a team of small, lazy players without grit. No wonder why the resultats are bad.

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02-09-2009, 10:33 PM
  #30
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he is part of the problem, I think ppl were evaluating BG the GM with the love they had for BG the player.

He does not take action or is very slow to make some. Nothing very flashy. as Marinero said this morning, Timmins is doing an excellent job. Look at BG moves and nothing flashy except the Rivet one. Instead of making a new team when he took over 5 years ago, he patched it.

Look at the coaching, it is a country club. Bunch of friends and no experience.

So far I give him a 5.5/10

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02-09-2009, 10:35 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Not saying that Gainey is bad, but he made a team of small, lazy players without grit. No wonder why the resultats are bad.
Don't agree. We increased our size from last year, and we were first in the conference. Besides, size isn't everything. The problem is that we don't play our game which is SPEED. Instead, we play some stupid trap system that hasn't worked since last year's playoffs, (or arguably never really worked well) and Carbo can't get the guys motivated.

If we were getting blown out every night while giving an honest effort, I'd say that yes our players just aren't good enough. But when was the last time we saw a true effort given for 60 mins? That my friends, is the coach's fault and no one else. He's lost the room.

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:37 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
No. Rookie coaches are the problem. Last time we won a Cup? When we had an experienced coach. Montreal seems to think that we can skimp out on coaching and train on the job. Works great doesn't it?
And the time before that? Rookie Jean Perron.

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02-09-2009, 10:37 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by MONACOBLUE View Post
The 29 other GMs? You mean like Don Waddell, who went out and "improved" his team by trading Coburn and Zhitnik? Even if this team doesn't win this year, there's still next year. No need to panic, people. Gainey has made tons of good moves and a few bad ones. Jeez, if you people think this is bad management, go look at Waddell, Garth Snow, Bryan Murray, Francois Giguere, etc.
Yeah because when Gainey makes move they always turn out great right? Like trading Huet right before the playoffs last year!

Those other GMs suck too, should Gainey get away with achieving the same results as them? Face it he is massivly over rated, just because he does nothing doesn't mean he is holding a royal flush upstairs.

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:38 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
Don't agree. We increased our size from last year, and we were first in the conference. Besides, size isn't everything. The problem is that we don't play our game which is SPEED. Instead, we play some stupid trap system that hasn't worked since last year's playoffs, (or arguably never really worked well) and Carbo can't get the guys motivated.

If we were getting blown out every night while giving an honest effort, I'd say that yes our players just aren't good enough. But when was the last time we saw a true effort given for 60 mins? That my friends, is the coach's fault and no one else. He's lost the room.
so the solution is to get another coach fired?

how many has it been with some of the players currently in Montréal?

I don't get this seriously, ever since Houle left, the Habs have won what? 3 1st rounds? At some point, it's not normal that teams like Philly, Boston and others can rebuild themselves in 3 years but it's been 5 here and we're still stuck....

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:38 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Not saying that Gainey is bad, but he made a team of small, lazy players without grit. No wonder why the resultats are bad.
These are the same small lazy players who won the conference last year. The major loss was grit-challenged Mark Streit.

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02-09-2009, 10:39 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by gc2005 View Post
And the time before that? Rookie Jean Perron.
Hey, it happens. But it is definitely not the norm... and if you want to stand there and argue that you'd rather have a rookie coach over an experienced one when you're trying to compete for the Cup... well, you're beyond talking to.

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:40 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by cprice31 View Post
and slowly Hab fans are realizing that we literally have the most incompetent management since 1993..............
You haven't watch much hockey between 1998 and 2002 have you?

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:40 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Not saying that Gainey is bad, but he made a team of small, lazy players without grit. No wonder why the resultats are bad.
Lazy? Maybe as a team, but consider these players and their careers instead of just this disaster of a losing streak

Tanguay is not lazy.
Koivu...not lazy
Lang...not lazy
TKo...not lazy
Begin...not lazy
Laraque...not lazy
Lapierre...not lazy
Higgins...not lazy
Plekanec...not lazy but this guy is a real softie.
Markov...not lazy
Komi...not lazy
Bouillon...not lazy (just bad)
Gorges...not lazy
Hamrlik...not lazy
D'Ags..not lazy
Maxpac...not lazy

Andrei/Sergei...lazy this year but not the last
Guillaume...lazy last year but not this year
Kovy...an enigma. Some call him lazy, but it just looks like he has no confidence and questionable hockey sense.

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:42 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Bob De Funes View Post
so the solution is to get another coach fired?

how many has it been with some of the players currently in Montréal?

I don't get this seriously, ever since Houle left, the Habs have won what? 3 1st rounds? At some point, it's not normal that teams like Philly, Boston and others can rebuild themselves in 3 years but it's been 5 here and we're still stuck....
It is so obvious that the players arent responding to the coach that I'm surprised people can't see it. We're not out-classed on the ice, we're out-worked, out-muscled, never first to the puck, and our "system" is full of holes. Plenty of coaches have done better with less.

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:42 PM
  #40
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anyone know when Brian Burke's contract ends in Anaheim?

He would be a great fit for us.

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02-09-2009, 10:43 PM
  #41
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Here's a fun exercise, let's name current GM's in the league who have won a Stanley Cup. Ready? Here we go...

Ken Holland, Detroit
Jim Rutherford, Carolina
Brian Burke, Toronto
Lou Lamoreillo, New Jersey
Bob Gainey, Montreal

That is all.

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:47 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
Hey, it happens. But it is definitely not the norm... and if you want to stand there and argue that you'd rather have a rookie coach over an experienced one when you're trying to compete for the Cup... well, you're beyond talking to.
Okay, fine. Last time we made it to the finals but lost, rookie Pat Burns was behind the bench.

Recent Cup-winning coaches John Tortorella and Peter Laviolette were both in their first NHL job. I don't understand how getting fired by some other NHL team has to be a pre-requisite for getting hired by Montreal.

If you're mad that Carbo doesn't have any coaching experience, that's also wrong, he was an assistant for a few years in Montreal and has held various gigs in Dallas after 20 years of playing in the league. He is also a Jack Adams Trophy finalist and lead a team to first place in the Eastern Conference last year, and has now coached over 200 games in the NHL.

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:49 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by cprice31 View Post
Bob Gainey has been GM since 2003. When he entered - in 2003 - these were the Habs main criticsm's:

..he's most likely the most over-rated GM in the league.
he's over-rated here!

he is not questioned for his many terrible and/or do nothing moves

i said it last year- that 1st place was an aberration because habs went 12-0 against boston and philly and had they gone .500 or 6-6 against those 2 teams they would have missed the playoffs again. in other words they had a bad record against the other 27 teams in the league. and was proved an aberration when the bruins outplayed the habs over the final 4 playoff games losing the 7 game series and the flyers wiped out the habs in 5 games with habs allowing 4 and a half goals a game. yet gainey did little to bolster that team, like he didnt 2 trade deadlines ago and last years trade deadline. even wasted ryder who he could have traded or streit or sourayfor that matter losing them all for nothing in free agency.

he has not been the same since his family problems arose in dallas then continued here. his only success there was he he went out a acquired hull and zubov . here his only big time move was kovalev 5 years ago and nothing since.

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:53 PM
  #44
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The credit stems from the Savard era should it not. The reason this team made the playoffs were guys like Komisarek, Markov, Akost, Pleks, Higgins developing into NHLers.

The minimal success Gainey has achieved while in Montreal has much more to do with those guys development and frankly he inherited them.

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:55 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by goldglove View Post
we made the playoff 4 seasons out of 5
Season GP W L T1 OTL GF GA Pts PIM Finish Playoffs
2003-04 82 41 30 7 4 208 192 93 1039 4th, Northeast Lost in Conference Semifinals, 0-4 (Lightning)
2004-05 Season cancelled due to 2004–05 NHL lockout
2005-061 82 42 31 — 9 243 247 93 1312 3rd, Northeast Lost in Conference Quarterfinals, 2-4 (Hurricanes)
2006-07 82 42 34 — 6 245 256 90 1119 4th, Northeast Did not qualify
2007–08 82 47 25 — 10 262 222 104 1072 1st, Northeast Lost in Conference Semifinals, 1-4 (Flyers)

have not been to an nhl east final since 1993

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Old
02-09-2009, 10:59 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by gc2005 View Post
Okay, fine. Last time we made it to the finals but lost, rookie Pat Burns was behind the bench.

Recent Cup-winning coaches John Tortorella and Peter Laviolette were both in their first NHL job. I don't understand how getting fired by some other NHL team has to be a pre-requisite for getting hired by Montreal.

If you're mad that Carbo doesn't have any coaching experience, that's also wrong, he was an assistant for a few years in Montreal and has held various gigs in Dallas after 20 years of playing in the league. He is also a Jack Adams Trophy finalist and lead a team to first place in the Eastern Conference last year, and has now coached over 200 games in the NHL.
You can say whatever you want to justify it... in the end, I don't think Carbs is the right man for the job. I don't agree with the decisions he makes, I don't agree with his lack of communication with the players, I don't agree with his after game comments to the press, and I don't agree with his system.

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Old
02-09-2009, 11:00 PM
  #47
Alfie Turcotte
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In Bob I trust.

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Old
02-09-2009, 11:05 PM
  #48
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These are the same small lazy players who won the conference last year. The major loss was grit-challenged Mark Streit.
Pittsburgh won the conference. Regular season means squat.

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Old
02-09-2009, 11:09 PM
  #49
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Gainey is not the bloody problem. If anything, its Houle, Molson and Corey's fault for putting us in this situation, for destroying the winning spirit of the team. We would've never had to rebuild and not traded our cornerstone players for trash.

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02-09-2009, 11:16 PM
  #50
Sir Jacques Demers
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Habs management continues to persist that we can win hockey games without a star offensive player. It's always the same story, every year.

Kovalev' 84 Points last year marked the first time in about 15 years that the Habs came within striking distance of one of the top scorers in the league.

Other than Theodore's big year, we haven't had a top-5 Goalie either since Roy.

Since the cup win, we've won maybe 5 playoff games in the 2nd round. (including 2 0-4 *****)

I'm not trying to degrade the team (though I'm doing a fine job), but ALL GMs in that period keep shying away from making any big moves, particularly playoff-rental type moves.

Yet somehow, when Gainey fails to make an big acquisition at the deadline, people here will still defend him

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