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Is Gainey the problem?

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Old
02-10-2009, 12:23 AM
  #51
LeMAD
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About last year, lets not forget we had no injuries, there were no expectations at the start of the season, we had Huet in nets, Kovalev had a career year, we had Streit on the PP, etc.

It was a perfect season considering the roster we had. This year we're having the season we are supposed to have, plus we're clearly not the kind of team that will get success during the playoffs.

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02-10-2009, 12:26 AM
  #52
WhiskeySeven
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Originally Posted by Go Habs Go View Post
Gainey is not the bloody problem. If anything, its Houle, Molson and Corey's fault for putting us in this situation, for destroying the winning spirit of the team. We would've never had to rebuild and not traded our cornerstone players for trash.
Winning Spirit? The entire management, roster and Bell Center staff has had a 100% turnover (other than our enigmatic captain, Koivu)!

Don't apologize for Bob Gainey's questionable dealings.

He isn't as bad as people are making him out to be, at the beginning of the season we seemed unstoppable but there are several factors affecting us:

a. Slump. Bad play, poor motivation etc...
b. Injuries. Tanguay is easily the most talent forward on the team (even moreso than Kovalev given his age and ability), Lang was our leading scorer and Price is still injured. RELAX
c. Softness and lack of drive. Markov is the perfect example of a "Euro" player. It's sad to say. He's leading the team in scoring yet he rarely hits and rarely "turns it up". Plekanec is a decent 2way player yet he plays like he's made of fine china.
d. Luck. We've had everything go against us all year. Nothing more to say
e. Powerplay. Without our powerplay teams play rougher, and tire us out more which in turn deteriorates our overall play completely.

That being said, Gainey should trade Plekanec or Kovalev to wake the rest of the team up.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 02-10-2009 at 01:44 AM.
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02-10-2009, 12:31 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
No. Rookie coaches are the problem. Last time we won a Cup? When we had an experienced coach. Montreal seems to think that we can skimp out on coaching and train on the job. Works great doesn't it?
bah , yeah , demers , perron ... great coaches ...


WE HAD HEART. then if you lose , it's all good with me.

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02-10-2009, 12:35 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Not saying that Gainey is bad, but he made a team of small, lazy players without grit. No wonder why the resultats are bad.
Actually, most of the "dwarves" are from A. Savard era, under Gainey we drafted bigger guys (Pacioretty is a fine example) and Bob signed guys like Kostopoulos (gritt), Lang (size), Hamrlik (size), BGL (size)... and while they werent gritty, guys like Bonk, Johnson and Smokes have a "decent frame"...

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02-10-2009, 12:40 AM
  #55
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Right now all i want is for Bob to trade Kovalev, not for any particular reason, i'm just not a fan and never have been. I don't think he's a cancer or this and that, i just don't think we need him anymore. He's a UFA at the end of the season and is getting up there in age. If Bob could trade him for a pick or a veteran with to a team that's borderline making the playoffs, then i say fire away. This would clear up some cap space + the Lang injury, we would have 9 mill to play around with. This might shake things up a bit and wake up the team but it might also have the opposite effect seeing as how Kovalev became such a big part of Montreal in such a short period of time. Other than that i'm happy with this team. We're injured and bad, Lang and Tanguay's injuries have hurt us. Dands was playing great hockey before his injury and Lats's presence is missed. Maybe they rushed Price back too fast after his injury, or maybe Price rushed himself back. Halak isn't a bad backup but when his team just gives up on him or the D just doesn't win their battles their isn't much he can do. On the trade front we don't have much to offer since we want to keep all our prospects and we should. Just gotta tough it out this year, wait for the injured players to come back, hopefully pick someone up sooner rather than later and we should be good for the playoffs, hopefully we will get hot during the playoffs and make a push for that elusive cup.

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02-10-2009, 12:43 AM
  #56
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Gainey did a great job taking this team out of the gutter. We've got blue chip prospects and emerging young talent including a potentially great goaltender.

He is not the problem.

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02-10-2009, 12:44 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by HabsHockey View Post
Right now all i want is for Bob to trade Kovalev,

not for any particular reason,


i'm just not a fan and never have been.
1,2,3.

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02-10-2009, 12:45 AM
  #58
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I hope Bob and Carbo don't get blamed for this. We have a team of decent talent, but no stars. We played above our heads for 1.5 years and are now coming back to Earth. I think with this offseason, we can acquire the right players to fit this team. Hopefully a bondafide star or two.

We just need to make the game easier for ourselves. We are like the anti-Pittsburgh. All effort and depth and no stars. They thrive on the play a few players and we need everyone to be playing well to win.

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02-10-2009, 12:45 AM
  #59
Kimota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
Gainey did a great job taking this team out of the gutter. We've got blue chip prospects and emerging young talent including a potentially great goaltender.

He is not the problem.
We should look at what our prospects gave us first.

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02-10-2009, 12:46 AM
  #60
WhiskeySeven
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Maybe it's Gainey's time to leave though? Just like Andre Savard laid the foundations, maybe Gainey should move on and let Timmins or Carbo become GM?

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02-10-2009, 12:48 AM
  #61
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How is Gainey at fault? This is the EXACT same team as last year, but replacing a ****** Ryder with Tanguay and a bum Smolinski with Lang. How was he to know it would turn out like this?

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02-10-2009, 12:48 AM
  #62
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Gainey is way too patient, that's his fault

Quote:
Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
How is Gainey at fault? This is the EXACT same team as last year, but replacing a ****** Ryder with Tanguay and a bum Smolinski with Lang. How was he to know it would turn out like this?
Lack of vision by Gainey...what he did was upgrade on Ryder and Smolinski.

He didn't address our evident weakness which was visible in the playoffs...grit,size,another Dman, character.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 02-10-2009 at 01:45 AM.
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02-10-2009, 12:53 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
We should look at what our prospects gave us first.
We still have em so we can't gauge the return. Still, I'd take our farm talent pool over most anyday.

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02-10-2009, 01:01 AM
  #64
Kimota
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I sort of think last year was our big window to go far. It was almost the perfect season and all Gainey did at the trade deadline was getting rid of Huet instead of getting us the elements to be a contender by solving our grit and getting a top player at that time. We almost had Hossa, Ruutu and Heidberg three things in my opinion that would solved a lot of our problems. You bring in also a Andre Roy for cheap, somebody that Tampa didn't want at that time(remember when Torto didn't want him). Contrary to BGL, Roy can skate, can play on a regular basis and bring that fire to start things and intimidate. You go against the Bruins and Flyers with these four players and we're easily more confident.

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02-10-2009, 01:01 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
We should look at what our prospects gave us first.
except the guys that got Montreal out of the gutter were from the A. Savard era. Gainey has added some pieces but reason this team made those playoffs were the development of the players that he already had.

edit - sorry wrong quote

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02-10-2009, 01:05 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
The scary thing is he thinks his best move was hiring Carbo.
Honestly how much input did he have on Timmins and Savards' beauty draft picks? Without the youth those 2 guys gave us this team could be horrifyingly bad right now.
Just saying the right thing and not adding extra pressure to players.

Also adding that coaching in Mtl is no picnic!
This team has been a coach killer for at least a decade.
carb is no perfect coach but one good thing is he don't shy away from pressure.
One of the most recognized coach had terrible years. Hitchcock,Ruff,Babcock just to name a few. It's the team attitude. Guys come to the habs and suck. The ones that do good get hurt.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 02-10-2009 at 01:46 AM.
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02-10-2009, 01:11 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
1,2,3.
Ok since i'm guessing your a Kovy fan, do you think hisservices are still needed in Montreal next season? Factor his age, salary, and overall play.

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02-10-2009, 01:16 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by cprice31 View Post
Bob Gainey has been GM since 2003.


Although he's built quite a pipeline of solid prospects (yet nobody with any kind of high-end potential)....OUR ISSUES REMAIN THE SAME.

So what has changed since 2003? Why have other teams remained competitive, and even re-invented themselves in a shorter period of time (boston/anaheim/philly/nyj/detroit/san jose).

At some point, Bob needs to be held responsible..he's most likely the most over-rated GM in the league.
I agree 100%.

Since '03 Gainey has improved the Habs team (and organization) - from the joke that they were (under Houle) to a certain level of respectability. Gainey has not turned the Habs into a true competitor. And, considering that thieir 3 best forwards are the oldest players on their roster (Kovalev, Koivu and Lang) I don't see the Habs competing for the Cup any time soon!

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02-10-2009, 01:21 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Yeah because when Gainey makes move they always turn out great right? Like trading Huet right before the playoffs last year!
go back a year for the first gainey huet mistake.

all habs had to do was win their last game in toronto to make the playoffs. huet had got hurt a few weeks before and hadn't played at all in weeks. and gainey put him in for the last game. huet let in a couple of bad goals and habs missed the playoffs.

gainey has a list of mistakes here as long as your arm.

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02-10-2009, 01:28 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Bob De Funes View Post
so the solution is to get another coach fired?

how many has it been with some of the players currently in Montréal?

I don't get this seriously, ever since Houle left, the Habs have won what? 3 1st rounds? At some point, it's not normal that teams like Philly, Boston and others can rebuild themselves in 3 years but it's been 5 here and we're still stuck....
Not saying I agree with the notion that Carbo is the issue and needs to be fired, but take Washington and the Blackhawks for example. George McPhee hired four different coaches during his time, and me a few mistakes with Cassidy and Hanlon. But now he looks like he's struck gold with Boudreau. The Blackhawks had similar problems with Yawney and Savard, and seemed to hit it right with Quennville. Sometimes it's just a matter of finding the right voice to get the message heard.

I really don't get the Philly and Boston references. They've won how many cups during this time? How many rounds has Boston won?

Fairweather fans. Gotta love em.

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02-10-2009, 01:31 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
I hope Bob and Carbo don't get blamed for this. We have a team of decent talent, but no stars. We played above our heads for 1.5 years and are now coming back to Earth. I think with this offseason, we can acquire the right players to fit this team. Hopefully a bondafide star or two.

We just need to make the game easier for ourselves. We are like the anti-Pittsburgh. All effort and depth and no stars. They thrive on the play a few players and we need everyone to be playing well to win.
no they dont. they just got walloped by the pathetic leafs and the flames who were having problems scoring on anyone.

habs have a pitiful defense , maybe the worst in the league and it was put together by gainey and they are coached by gaineys 1980s friends. but this is 30 years later its 2009.

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02-10-2009, 01:39 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Sir Jacques Demers View Post
Habs management continues to persist that we can win hockey games without a star offensive player. It's always the same story, every year.

Kovalev' 84 Points last year marked the first time in about 15 years that the Habs came within striking distance of one of the top scorers in the league.

Other than Theodore's big year, we haven't had a top-5 Goalie either since Roy.

Since the cup win, we've won maybe 5 playoff games in the 2nd round. (including 2 0-4 *****)

I'm not trying to degrade the team (though I'm doing a fine job), but ALL GMs in that period keep shying away from making any big moves, particularly playoff-rental type moves.

Yet somehow, when Gainey fails to make an big acquisition at the deadline, people here will still defend him
"Yet somehow, when Gainey fails to make an big acquisition at the deadline, people here will still defend him"

i think not. finally now you are seeing all kinds of people awakening to the fact that he has done a terrible and do-nothing job here all along since he came back. they attacked anyone who criticized their hero gainey with venom - now their paying for their stupidity.

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02-10-2009, 01:45 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by cprice31 View Post
and slowly Hab fans are realizing that we literally have the most incompetent management since 1993..............


LOL !! I said it since Carbo was Hired... Gainey is incompetent and should be replaced as soon as next year. I can't list all the bad things he did because it would be too long.

Now, people are starting to realize that this guy is overrated... he isn't focused on hockey anymore since the tragedy unfortunately... Gainey should just leave and offer the job to someonelse...

P.S: Fires Guy Carbonneau !!



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02-10-2009, 01:56 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by couz View Post
Lack of vision by Gainey...what he did was upgrade on Ryder and Smolinski.

He didn't address our evident weakness which was visible in the playoffs...grit,size,another Dman, character.
Lack of vision?...please man.

We lost in the POs due to Price collapsing. I don't even think it's fair to criticize Price actually because of how lucky the Flyers got.
Biron played like a magician, we touched about 20posts/game and Umberger scored any time, any where he touched the puck.

I don't think we lacked grit, size, another D, character.
I don't see how you can lack character when you lose 2 back-to-back games and pull out a win in Game7, versus possibly the most gritty team in the East.

I do agree we might have lacked a bit of size upfront. That's why Gainey went for a big center. He tried with Sundin, but landed Lang. He also added Laraque to bulker up.
So, I think it's fair to say he did add size, on top of another good 1st liner with 80pts potential.
We had grit last year, we never backed down and always came back..Need I remind you of the 5-0 comeback??..or the 3-0 one vs NJ and Brodeur??..We always came back last season. That shows grit and character.

The 4-1 loss in the POs versus the Flyers isn't the way to sum up the whole season. One serie doesn't reflect your team.
Size was a big issue, and he added some.

You can't say Gainey had a lack of vision because he couldn't foresee almost all of his players would get injured at some point only halfway through this season.
There's no way he could predict 6-8 of his most important players would fall into a slump at the same time.


No big or impactfull trades have occurred so far this season, we don't know what's going on behind closed doors. Not one GM has made a trade, and a lot of teams could use reinforcement.

We'll see by deadline what he tries, but blaming him or saying he lacks vision is just foolish.
Over his years, our team has become better, if you can't admit that then you're a lost case.

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02-10-2009, 02:06 AM
  #75
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Bob Gainey has been GM since 2003.

Although he's built quite a pipeline of solid prospects (yet nobody with any kind of high-end potential)....OUR ISSUES REMAIN THE SAME.

So what has changed since 2003? Why have other teams remained competitive, and even re-invented themselves in a shorter period of time (boston/anaheim/philly/nyj/detroit/san jose).

At some point, Bob needs to be held responsible..he's most likely the most over-rated GM in the league.
You know what the one thing that all those teams have in common that you mention? Players want to go there.

It is no secret that Bob has pushed hard for high end UFA talent every summer, and in the end, was used a a tool to drive up the price of the player. We all know who these players are.

And as for trades, please tell me of the big star player trades that have happened in the new cap era. A lot of these ideas are bred from fantasy and not reality. The reality that if we give 1/2 our team for a single player, and drive our cap hit per player up in a time when the cap is going to go down, will hinder this team for years to come.

But you are correct, our issues remain the same. Although players will always SAY they would like to play in Montreal, the reality is, most do not. They have chances during UFA, and turn down more money here to play elsewhere. And it is for the same reasons. The hockey culture, and 'aura' in the city it the best when things are great, but absolutely the worst when they hit any bump in the road. They would much rather play in a city where they can make just as much money (and probably more due to lower taxes), and not face the media they have to face here. Which leads to the psychological factor of can the player handle playing here? The factor of 'what's between the ears' is more important than ever these days. You're not going to trade, or sign a player that you know will crack under the pressure. Would you trade for a player if you knew he didn't want to be there, and couldn't handle it mentally, forfeiting young talent and prospect for a player that won't give it his all, and end up bolting the first chance he gets? There are factors beyond the realm of the EA NHL fantasy world when making a move now.

As long as this culture of negativity surrounds the team, this complete over saturation of media coverage of the players and the teams every waking second, players will not want to come here, and will not want to play here. And given these circumstances that Gainey faces, he is doing a fantastic job. He has done the first step in trying to attract players to coming here: building a competitive (not best team in the league that will win every night as some people dream). The problem is, he cannot control these other factors. Players will continue to opt to play in a place like SJ/DET/ETC where they can have a bad game, and after the game not face over a dozen reporters, have the loss blamed on them from every media source, and fans and media calling for their trade, and hearing about it everyday until to do something fantastic again. Why would you chose to work in an environment like that when you have 24 other markets where you don't have to deal with this on a daily basis? Would you want this in your work environment? So trading players we have control over (RFA) for a single player will leave the cupboard extremely bare, as we will not be able to attract UFA talent in the off-season once more to fill these roster spots.

So yes, you are correct, the issues remain the same. And with the teams current woes, this is coming out in spades these last few weeks. We will see the repercussions of this in the off season when players choose to bolt to work in a more friendly work environment. It will be a work of genius if bob can bring back any of the players that haven't been with us for a long time. But alas, that will be blamed on by the media and fans as him not being competent enough to sign them during the season. Problem is, they need to want to resign here.

And so goes the vicious cycle that has created in Montreal.

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