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Is Gainey the problem?

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Old
02-10-2009, 02:08 AM
  #76
Stradale
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He is not the problem but he is not finding the solution.

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Old
02-10-2009, 02:20 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
He is not the problem but he is not finding the solution.
that precisely is the problem - he NEVER has been looking to solve any weak spot since getting kovalev years ago.

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Old
02-10-2009, 03:21 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by 3TB3 View Post
go back a year for the first gainey huet mistake.

all habs had to do was win their last game in toronto to make the playoffs. huet had got hurt a few weeks before and hadn't played at all in weeks. and gainey put him in for the last game. huet let in a couple of bad goals and habs missed the playoffs.

gainey has a list of mistakes here as long as your arm.
Honestly I think Timmins has earned a spot deeper within the organization and since Gainey gets all the credit for Timmins draft picks why not just give Timmins Gaineys job and get rid of the middle man? Timmins can make great draft picks and do nothing on the trade front too, Gainey does nothing special.

I cut Carbo slack for being a rookie but I think his time has come too, I wouldn't miss him and I dont think the team would either. I don't know who could fill his shoes but someone with a pair of balls could get these ballerinas dancing, so to speak.

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Old
02-10-2009, 03:37 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkiness View Post
Winning Spirit? The entire management, roster and Bell Center staff has had a 100% turnover (other than our enigmatic captain, Koivu)!

Don't apologize for Bob Gainey's questionable dealings.

He isn't as bad as people are making him out to be, at the beginning of the season we seemed unstoppable but there are several factors affecting us:

a. Slump. Bad play, poor motivation etc...
b. Injuries. Tanguay is easily the most talent forward on the team (even moreso than Kovalev given his age and ability), Lang was our leading scorer and Price is still injured. RELAX
c. Softness and lack of drive. Markov is the perfect example of a "Euro" player. It's sad to say. He's leading the team in scoring yet he rarely hits and rarely "turns it up". Plekanec is a decent 2way player yet he plays like he's made of fine china.
d. Luck. We've had everything go against us all year. Nothing more to say
e. Powerplay. Without our powerplay teams play rougher, and tire us out more which in turn deteriorates our overall play completely.

That being said, Gainey should trade Plekanec or Kovalev to wake the rest of the team up.

What the... Markov? Are you serious... your complaining about Markov not hitting? The guy plays with a bit of dog in him at times, but it's not his M.O. you don't ask Gretzky to blow over D-men like or Lidstrom to blow down forwards, the hell are u doing asking Markov to do this?

What the ...




The list keeps growing it's really insane

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Old
02-10-2009, 04:33 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by 3TB3 View Post
that precisely is the problem - he NEVER has been looking to solve any weak spot since getting kovalev years ago.
Is this your first year following the team? Since Kovalev, I will start the list with Hamrlik, Lang, Kostopoulos, and Tanguay. So, a #2 defenseman for the second pairing - check. A big RH centre - check. A bit of grit and energy for the 4th line - check. A talented 2-way playmaker - check. What weaknesses did he totally neglect again? Maybe he didn't get the best guys out there, but he addressed many "weak spots."

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Old
02-10-2009, 06:16 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cprice31 View Post
Bob Gainey has been GM since 2003. When he entered - in 2003 - these were the Habs main criticsm's:

-Small / Soft
-Lack of size at center
-Lack of true offensive potential

Although he's built quite a pipeline of solid prospects (yet nobody with any kind of high-end potential)....OUR ISSUES REMAIN THE SAME.

-We are still small and soft.
-We still dont have any size down the middle, and the only hope we have is in the name of Kyle Chipchura (Ben Maxwell aint a big kid).
-We still lack high-end offensive potential.



So what has changed since 2003? Why have other teams remained competitive, and even re-invented themselves in a shorter period of time (boston/anaheim/philly/nyj/detroit/san jose).

At some point, Bob needs to be held responsible..he's most likely the most over-rated GM in the league.
You are a bigger "Problem" to the Habs, then Bob Gainey is.


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Old
02-10-2009, 06:29 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
He is not the problem but he is not finding the solution.
but isn't "finding the solution" his #1 job?


I've had the same opinion of Gainey for awhile now, average GM, good in some areas disapointing in others, but clearly nowhere near as effective as his reputation.

what happens between now and august will go along way to making his true effectivness plain and clear to everyone.

This is the first year out of 6 where he actually assembled a team that was worthy of considerable playoff expectations (a damning point in itself, imo), if the team falls apart and stumbles o another early playoff exit, or worse, doesn't even make the big dance, he'll be deserving of a big fat F on his tenure thus far(no, 1 conference point leader finish does not = successful GM tenure, imo).... his only saving grace from there would be a summer spent revamping the roster and someone showing a much better ability at managing assets and signing UFA'S, so as to give the habs a roster, come august, that has at least the appearance of being able to improve on the mediocracy of the past decade

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Old
02-10-2009, 08:04 AM
  #83
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ok here it goes to please the kindergarten thread.

Fire Gainey !
Fire Carbo ( Muller Jarvis Melanson ) !
Trade our first 6 forwards !
Trade Price !
Trade soft Markov !
Trade Komi !

and lets just play Breezeby and Dandy with Hammer and Cube, call up 2 guys from Hamilton ! oh hell i am going to stop here, i have dug my hole deep enough !

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Old
02-10-2009, 08:20 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by TheCH View Post
Dumping Julien to give his buddy a job is definitely a problem.
i agree. everyone laughed at me when i used to say julien is the best coach in the nhl. its only 3-4 seasons ive been saying hes a great coach. And i got ridiculed for that. Ill say one thing, julien will out coach carbo every game with no sweat!

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Old
02-10-2009, 09:01 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by gc2005 View Post
Here's a fun exercise, let's name current GM's in the league who have won a Stanley Cup. Ready? Here we go...

Ken Holland, Detroit
Jim Rutherford, Carolina
Brian Burke, Toronto
Lou Lamoreillo, New Jersey
Bob Gainey, Montreal

That is all.
You know the funnier exercise about it? Is that winning 1 Cup doesn't necessarily mean you're a star GM as well? Who here hate Burke and thinks he's overrated? Himself said that he inherited the team from Bob Murray, you know the Bob Murray that everybody says sucks.....And then as great as Lamoriello is, most people are saying that all his years, the system had one name....Brodeur. And then it didn't stop him from being a stupid guy and fire Julien while thinking he would do better....And then, Jim Rutherford....I mean, anybody here cherish Rutheford 'cause he won that famous cup?

So you win a cup, it means you can't do no wrong.....great analysis....Only Holland has a free pass in my books 'cause not only he won Cup(s), but his team is always on top of the league year after year. And I can tell you that other GM's that haven't won are amongst the best as well.

Enough of those free passes, we need results. Yeah...Habs fans are soooooo demanding....what's 15 years without seeing a 3rd round. Winning before doesn't necessarily means winning after. Knowing what it takes to win in the old NHL is not the same as winning in the new one. Things change, you need to adapt. Some can, some don't. Problem is, and while I'm not Gainey and Carbo best friends, it's great to ask to see them fired....but do people have any idea who can take their place? At one point if you want people to be fired, please come with an idea of who can take their place.....if nobody comes in mind....why talking about it then?

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Old
02-10-2009, 09:32 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Honestly I think Timmins has earned a spot deeper within the organization and since Gainey gets all the credit for Timmins draft picks why not just give Timmins Gaineys job and get rid of the middle man? Timmins can make great draft picks and do nothing on the trade front too, Gainey does nothing special.

I cut Carbo slack for being a rookie but I think his time has come too, I wouldn't miss him and I dont think the team would either. I don't know who could fill his shoes but someone with a pair of balls could get these ballerinas dancing, so to speak.
Timmins does good drafts but if he becomes GM he won't have time to scout young players anymore so the draft might suffer from this. And changing coach won't change anything, it never does. Unless your coach is Barry Melrose.

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Old
02-10-2009, 09:40 AM
  #87
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Wow, I can't believe how much whiners there is in this thread. Most of you forgot quite fast. We won the conference last year! WE WON IT! I'll explain just to make sure you guys understand ; we were the team with the best record in regular season!!! If it wasn't of Biron, things might have been different. We'll never know.

I can't see how we can put the blame on Gainey. He did a good job. Maybe not a great one, but a good one for sure. Of course, we still have some issues, but just think about the line-up we had when he first got in. It's such a huge difference. Back then, we had nothing to build on. Right now, we have a core of young players that we'll be able to keep for years to come. Sure they are underperforming this year, but the whole team is. And last year, most of them played great.

If you guys follow the draft, you'll know that Timmins usually draft players with a good work ethic. He draft skills, speed and hard working. Higgins, Plekanec, Komisarek, Lapierre, the Kostitsyn's.....they all fit the bill. So why are they underperforming this year?

One thing is for sure, it's not Gainey's fault. He did try to get a big star forward, but it's not like it's easy to do. Atlanta has a star forward, an they can't make the playoffs because they don't have anything else. So should Gainey trade half the team to get one star forward? NO! We need to keep our depth. It's not Gainey's fault if UFAs don't want to come here even if we offer the best contract.

So is it Carbonneau's fault? Maybe...we don't know and can't know. We are not out there. But IMO, it's not his fault. I think he's a good coach. I also like Muller as an assistant. Carbo was nominated for the Jack Adams one year ago. It doesn't mean everything, but even if he's a young coach, I think he's a good one.

IMO, the problem is simply on the ice. We know that Kovy is slowing down other players on the team. He tries to do everything himself too often. He simple has to go.

And I really question Koivu's leadership. Like the Carbo situation, we can't know for sure. But every single year, we have the same problem. We are red hot for a while, and then, bang, it's all gone. Why can't we keep going for almost a whole season. Koivu is a good player, but maybe he's part of the problem too.

It's easy to shoot management, but the fact is that we have the best group since so many years. I think we simply need a leader to lead our young players.

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Old
02-10-2009, 09:46 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
i agree. everyone laughed at me when i used to say julien is the best coach in the nhl. its only 3-4 seasons ive been saying hes a great coach. And i got ridiculed for that. Ill say one thing, julien will out coach carbo every game with no sweat!
Julien had a lot to learn. He had a decent rookie year and the players listened to a fresh voice... but he was a pathetic coach in 2005-06, and that's putting it politely. The team was a joke the entire year, getting dominated early in the season but squeezing out miraculous wins (Cardiac Kids). Then the wheels completely fell off and January 2006 was like the last ten games of this year multiplied by a thousand. Juliens last game, we played in Colorado, and the first period of that game made last nights second period look like a hall of fame performance. He had to go.

The jury is still out on Carbo. Jack Adams nominations mean jack ****. If this team collapses and missed the playoffs for the 2nd time in 3 years, he's gotta go. And hopefully he is the last rookie head coach for a long, long time. This market isn't where you learn as you go.

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Old
02-10-2009, 09:48 AM
  #89
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No he is not the problem.

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02-10-2009, 09:49 AM
  #90
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Where were all you guys complaining about Gainey last year when we were first in the conference with pretty much the same team?

Gainey picked up Lang and Tanguay in the off season and gave up Streit and Ryder. It is not Gainey's fault if the team is not as good as last year, because we have a better team than we did back then.

It's not his fault if the Kostitsyns, Plekanec, Kovalev, Hamrlik, and Gorges have all decided to play like crap.

The Habs have a great team with a very promising future. This isn't NHL '09. You don't make a hundred trades looking for that perfect formula.

Look around. How many successful GM's make 4-5 trades in a year? Gainey tried to grab some UFA's. It's not his fault they didn't want to sign here.

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Old
02-10-2009, 09:51 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
No he is not the problem.
they just don't know what and who to bash anymore ! so lets blame BG ! actually this scares me because some people take this GAME way too seriously.

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02-10-2009, 01:35 PM
  #92
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I'd say that our lazy, lame-@ss players are the problem

but that's just me

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02-10-2009, 01:51 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by windycity View Post
I'd say that our lazy, lame-@ss players are the problem

but that's just me
Who chooses which players are part of the team? Give you head a shake...

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Old
02-10-2009, 01:51 PM
  #94
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Wow, just wow.

Some people here need to get their bolts tightened.



Real life isn't EA's NHL 09 on your PS3. Forget the whole slogan of "It's in the game". Its a sell pitch, and you are bitting hook, line and sinker.

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02-10-2009, 01:53 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
Who chooses which players are part of the team? Give you head a shake...
Same players who won the conference last year.

Give your own head a shake, and while your at it, GTFO of here.

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Old
02-10-2009, 01:56 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Same players who won the conference last year.

Give your own head a shake, and while your at it, GTFO of here.
word

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Old
02-10-2009, 02:09 PM
  #97
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Is Gainey the problem?
Simply put, NO!

The absurdity of even suggesting it shows the desperation of some who can't see beyond the immediate results in thinking that only a Stanley Cup winning GM year-in, year-out would be qualified. Might work on NHL09, but not in real life.

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Old
02-10-2009, 02:22 PM
  #98
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Same players who won the conference last year.
Same players who looked really bad in the playoffs too. Who won games by the PP alone during the season (with Streit at the point). While no one was injured. While the expectations were really low at the start of the season. With Huet in nets. With Kovalev pulling the team with a career year. Everything went absolutely perfect last year. but it gave us (and Gainey) a wrong idea about the value of the team.

Every team can have a good record during the season if everything goes well for them, but the regular season means nothing. When the games get more intense, the other team's defense get thighter, Habs are inneffective, even against bottom teams.

Bottom line is that we're not a contender this year. So let's think about the future instead of trading our youth for UFAs.

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Old
02-10-2009, 02:27 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Same players who looked really bad in the playoffs too. Who won games by the PP alone during the season (with Streit at the point). While no one was injured. While the expectations were really low at the start of the season. With Huet in nets. With Kovalev pulling the team with a career year. Everything went absolutely perfect last year. but it gave us (and Gainey) a wrong idea about the value of the team.

Every team can have a good record during the season if everything goes well for them, but the regular season means nothing. When the games get more intense, the other team's defense get thighter, Habs are inneffective, even against bottom teams.

Bottom line is that we're not a contender this year. So let's think about the future instead of trading our youth for UFAs.
I agree on that. We don't have to rebuild. We just have to clean a few things and things should be better. We have a good core so it's easy to build on that. And if we do make a move for a big player, lets hope he'll be signed for at least another year.

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Old
02-10-2009, 02:30 PM
  #100
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It's not Gainey's fault that some of the players are underperforming. And its not his fault that we have a lot of injuries.

I'm a glass-half-full type person. I think these slumps build character for teams. Once they get out of it, the team will be stronger because of it imo

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