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Let's Check the Barometer

View Poll Results: Best Direction for the Habs
Stay the Course, Get a Top 4 D-man Things will be fine 108 62.43%
Get Rid of Kovalev or Carbo and/or Gainey 21 12.14%
Get a Star Forward (Lecavalier, Gaborik etc...) 27 15.61%
Partial Rebuild: Move Koivu/Kovalev/ and other vets Draft and Develop for 2-3 Years 17 9.83%
Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-09-2009, 11:41 AM
  #26
Jiggernaut
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Originally Posted by FenixTX View Post
i think the problem is carbo. I don't like how he juggles his lines and why is he putting 3 or 4th liner on the ice with 2 minutes to go when they are behing by 1 goal.
It has to do with the effort, or lack thereof, that the top two lines were producing.

They were the best line a generating chances all game, so they are out with 2 min left to try and build on that, and let the best offensive line of the night (if we have one lately) rest for the last push.

Would you really want to put out your 'top' line at that point of the game when they've shown/done nothing all game? Most coaches wouldn't.

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Old
02-09-2009, 11:43 AM
  #27
RE-HABS
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Need D bad, but I wouldn't disagree that we need Star power at forward as well in mold of a big centre with power forward skills as well.

I agree with Darz as well, if Kovalev isn't motivated to play put him on the 3rd or 4th line with hard working players like Kostopolous, Lapierre, Begin, Laroque and others make him work as well.

If he doesn't respond the next step is to scratch him from the line up. I believe Plekanec would benefit the same treatment and AK as well, but we can't make them the 4th line since they don't work well as 1st.

Adjustments need to be made to make this work.

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Old
02-09-2009, 11:45 AM
  #28
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I think the purpose of this thread is to make people realize that the vast majority (70%+) of fans here (and probably at the Bell Centre and elsewhere) are still positive about the team. The negative posters, although very vocal (they even have the majority of posts on this thread, like they have the majority of posts on the board) are still a really small minority.

Brings back faith in the human kind

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Old
02-09-2009, 01:22 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Jiggernaut View Post
It has to do with the effort, or lack thereof, that the top two lines were producing.

They were the best line a generating chances all game, so they are out with 2 min left to try and build on that, and let the best offensive line of the night (if we have one lately) rest for the last push.

Would you really want to put out your 'top' line at that point of the game when they've shown/done nothing all game? Most coaches wouldn't.
i would rather have kovalev on the ice even if he's having a really bad game than having begin on the ice when you are trying to tie the game

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Old
02-09-2009, 01:25 PM
  #30
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i would rather have kovalev on the ice even if he's having a really bad game than having begin on the ice when you are trying to tie the game
I'd rather have Koivu, the Kostitsyn's, Tanguay, Plekanec, Higgins... You know, guys who actually try and give an effort?

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Old
02-09-2009, 01:26 PM
  #31
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Stay the course and trade for a top 4 dman.

I also say play dandy. What could happen ? We lose ?

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Old
02-09-2009, 01:30 PM
  #32
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I think it is time to dump some of the 30+ year olds, just look at the stats or the top teams they are led by younger players. The habs roster will look alot differnt next season.

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Old
02-09-2009, 01:46 PM
  #33
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It's time like this when the team is down and can't appear to do anything right when you find out who really understands the game. The Majority of people who post on here are passionate fans there is no doubt about that, but seem to let their emotions cloud their judgement. I.E. Price's current play and so many people giving up on him. Sports are all about how you handle slumps, failure and getting kicked in the ass. Anyone who has played at a high level knows this. You are going to eventually slump no matter how good you are, its all about how you handle it and bounce back. It's great that so many people care about the Habs and are so into the team thats what makes Habs fans the best. Sometimes though you just have to take a step back and think for a second.
Everyone is entitled to their opinon obviously and can say what they want but if you are a true fan of this team and the Habs organization stick with the team in good times and bad. Its easy to be a fan when all is good but sticking with the team through the inevitable stuggles makes the good times that much sweeter. We definitely have issues but who doesnt? I know I for one will be riding shotgun for the organizations Up's and downs as long as im alive and im sure there are many more like me around here.

Go Habs Go!

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Old
02-09-2009, 01:49 PM
  #34
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I voted Kovalev. 2 years ago, we had this same problem. Good before Christmas, then slump that lasted almost til the end of the year. We rely too much on this guy to actually give a crap. Pittsburgh is looking for a winger for Cindy, get what you can. Whitney looks to be available. Add something if you have to. What the heck, they may still miss the playoffs, and we wouldn't have to face him. I think the guy brings the moral down too much when he's pouting. In 2 weeks, Tanguay will be back and he can essentially replace him on forward.

I don't think we need a franchise forward, although it would be ice, it's just not essential.

Whitney could play the point on the pp and fill in as the #3/4 D along side Hamrlik. He has serious shortcomings on D but a change of scenery might do him good. Sort of like O'Byrne going to Hamilton to get his game back. He is much better now.

BTW, when I read the thread title, I thought it would be about Alain "Le Moron" Chantelois. So I wasn't too keen on reading this thread.

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Old
02-09-2009, 01:50 PM
  #35
Phil Parent
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Stay the course, let things go boom by themselves if need be at the end of the year.

The greatest thing about this is that there's a TV crew following the team around all year long doing a documentary for the centennial season. I hope they got crunchy materials.

But we'd never see it.

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Old
02-09-2009, 02:00 PM
  #36
BigBen07
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As for the poll, I went with acquiring help on the back end as i think that is our biggest weakness. After that id like to see us bring someone in to supplement our forward group if possible. Preferably a veteran presence ALA Weight, Guerin ( not saying thats who I want just the caliber of player i think that could be useful).

Speaking about the future, we definitely need to address the Centre ice position as im sure everyone knows. Koivu isnt getting younger, Pleks has shown this year he cant be relyed on and Lappy, who has been a bright spot, looks to have found a role as a perfect 3rd line centre with some goal scoring ability for years to come. Hopefully we can find a UFA who wants to be here or acquire one through a trade b/c itll be tough draft one with the caliber of team we currently have, leaving us drafting towards the end of each round ( hopefully last hah) but you never know, could get lucky and find a gem too. Either way it needs to be addressed in the near future.

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Old
02-09-2009, 02:01 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by BigBen07 View Post
It's time like this when the team is down and can't appear to do anything right when you find out who really understands the game. The Majority of people who post on here are passionate fans there is no doubt about that, but seem to let their emotions cloud their judgement. I.E. Price's current play and so many people giving up on him. Sports are all about how you handle slumps, failure and getting kicked in the ass. Anyone who has played at a high level knows this. You are going to eventually slump no matter how good you are, its all about how you handle it and bounce back. It's great that so many people care about the Habs and are so into the team thats what makes Habs fans the best. Sometimes though you just have to take a step back and think for a second.
Everyone is entitled to their opinon obviously and can say what they want but if you are a true fan of this team and the Habs organization stick with the team in good times and bad. Its easy to be a fan when all is good but sticking with the team through the inevitable stuggles makes the good times that much sweeter. We definitely have issues but who doesnt? I know I for one will be riding shotgun for the organizations Up's and downs as long as im alive and im sure there are many more like me around here.

Go Habs Go!
I guess you are the only one that understands the game, probably for every teams' fanbase also.

You come on here and belittle everyone because they have the nerve to form an opinion. And we are not "true fans" because we have those opnions.

It is because we are "true fans" that we have opinions. Some opinions may not be as good as others, some may be moronic, but as caring fans, we are entitled to them, and a place like this affords us a forum to express them.

I don't see anyone quitting the Habs because they are in a slump so we are all here to support our team even if they lose. But with ticket prices, price for merchandise and son on, we are entitled to be just as satisfied as we can be dissatisfied with our team.

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Old
02-09-2009, 02:03 PM
  #38
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I'd like to see us replace Carbonneau, but I have a hard time blaming him for our players refusing to play hard on a regular basis. Won't happen anyways so there's not much point in debating it.

I haven't really written off this season, but I'm definitely not optimistic about it anymore. No one trade (or two, or three) is going to magically get everyone to put in effort every night. Since we're not going to win the Stanley Cup with guys who don't care, I wouldn't mind seeing some of the older guys or hopeless floaters traded away. I don't think it's necessary to completely blow up the team and start yet another 5-year rebuilding process, but it's pretty clear that the group we have now isn't interested in doing what it takes to win.

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Old
02-09-2009, 02:15 PM
  #39
BigBen07
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Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
I guess you are the only one that understands the game, probably for every teams' fanbase also.

You come on here and belittle everyone because they have the nerve to form an opinion. And we are not "true fans" because we have those opnions.

It is because we are "true fans" that we have opinions. Some opinions may not be as good as others, some may be moronic, but as caring fans, we are entitled to them, and a place like this affords us a forum to express them.

I don't see anyone quitting the Habs because they are in a slump so we are all here to support our team even if they lose. But with ticket prices, price for merchandise and son on, we are entitled to be just as satisfied as we can be dissatisfied with our team.
Haha im not belittling anyone. Wasnt my attention. Sorry if i came across that way. I'm pretty sure i said in the post that everyone was a passionate fan, cared and was entitled to their opinions and i respect them ( read again please). My point was about not overreacting to losing streaks and thinking that the world is going to end b/c the habs struggle. I could argue your point that a lot of poeple seem to have given up on the habs though from all the posts ive seen ranging from "Price is done" to "Rebuild" etc. But thats fine if thats what those people think we should do and like you said its a forum to express what you think. I just personally think some people seem to overreact and dont think about some of their posts. One thing i failed to say in my original post is that, i believe this to be the miniority and that the majority of people on here post great stuff. But thats just my opinion if you dont agree thats all you can do, I can respect that

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Old
02-09-2009, 05:16 PM
  #40
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Haha im not belittling anyone. Wasnt my attention. Sorry if i came across that way. I'm pretty sure i said in the post that everyone was a passionate fan, cared and was entitled to their opinions and i respect them ( read again please). My point was about not overreacting to losing streaks and thinking that the world is going to end b/c the habs struggle. I could argue your point that a lot of poeple seem to have given up on the habs though from all the posts ive seen ranging from "Price is done" to "Rebuild" etc. But thats fine if thats what those people think we should do and like you said its a forum to express what you think. I just personally think some people seem to overreact and dont think about some of their posts. One thing i failed to say in my original post is that, i believe this to be the miniority and that the majority of people on here post great stuff. But thats just my opinion if you dont agree thats all you can do, I can respect that
Sorry too, then, I just got that impression of belittling from your previous post. I don't know maybe it was just me.

As far as people overreacting is concerned, I usually try to stay away until at least the following day after a loss, especially a bad one like Saturday, just because too many people come on here and other forums and just act the way you say they do. Not everyone obviously but enough that coming on here doesn't put me in any better of a mood.

If this road trip goes well 8 points out of 12, most of those people will change their tunes about rebuilds and so on. Better than that, 9 points or more and they'll plan the parade. You know the one. The only banner that counts parade.

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Old
02-09-2009, 05:22 PM
  #41
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Get an offensive defenseman and replace Lang....things will be fine. Tkacauk? To replace Lang?

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02-09-2009, 05:25 PM
  #42
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Let's separate the men from the bandwagonning toddlers
can't help to think of the last time I heard ; ''stay the course ''



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Old
02-09-2009, 05:32 PM
  #43
BigBen07
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Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
Sorry too, then, I just got that impression of belittling from your previous post. I don't know maybe it was just me.

As far as people overreacting is concerned, I usually try to stay away until at least the following day after a loss, especially a bad one like Saturday, just because too many people come on here and other forums and just act the way you say they do. Not everyone obviously but enough that coming on here doesn't put me in any better of a mood.

If this road trip goes well 8 points out of 12, most of those people will change their tunes about rebuilds and so on. Better than that, 9 points or more and they'll plan the parade. You know the one. The only banner that counts parade.
Yeah probably a good call on staying away immediately following tough losses. I'm still kinda new to the whole posting thing, so i guess with time i'll be better able to recognize the posts I should just ignore.
Haha I totally hear you on the bandwagon filling back up if we have a successful trip. If not, ill try and be more selective in which posts I give merit to. Sorry again if i came across the wrong way...

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Old
02-09-2009, 11:46 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Habber View Post
Sorry too, then, I just got that impression of belittling from your previous post. I don't know maybe it was just me.

As far as people overreacting is concerned, I usually try to stay away until at least the following day after a loss, especially a bad one like Saturday, just because too many people come on here and other forums and just act the way you say they do. Not everyone obviously but enough that coming on here doesn't put me in any better of a mood.

If this road trip goes well 8 points out of 12, most of those people will change their tunes about rebuilds and so on. Better than that, 9 points or more and they'll plan the parade. You know the one. The only banner that counts parade.

I try to do that to, but that's mostly because the board is depressing after a loss and all I can contribute to it is hatred of Kovalev's playing this year and Carbonneau's ineptness (still not over firing Julien... who looks smart now?)

To be honest I still haven't picked a choice because there could be so many things

- Kovalev's floating and lack or punishment has alienated his teammates
- Carbonneau is not a head coach, he can't come up with an effective system for the type of players he has
- Koivu vs. Kovalev may in fact be for real which would mean that one of them need to be moved
- We need another top 4 D-man
- Some of our youngsters are too young and green and need more time to get used to the NHL (then again look at what Julien did with the Bruins this year)
- Gainey may not be the right man for the job based on mistakes (firing Julien, losing Streit etc)

All this translates to the team executing poorly on the ice, leaving our goalies out to dry which kills their confidence

What just happened to Halak happened to Price on Fri and Sat.


Personally I would move Kovalev for a D-man. Kill two birds with one stone. I'm not going to make him the scapegoat, it's not really his fault. He is a moody player, he is an inconsistent and very skilled player. However the problem is between the ears. He's got the ability but can't do it in a consistent way and Management made a mistake in making him our Hossa/Gaborik/Kovalchuk etc... It was needed and worked last year, but Management may have been to naïve in thinking that this could be a long term thing. Kovalev has played bad this year and to avoid problems of 2 years ago Carbo avoided calling out Kovalev directly again and again, while not missing the opportunity to punish the others who weren't.

Basically team spirit is low. Another way I think we can fix this is to give Markov the A. He does deserve it more then Kovalev and is the closest thing we have to Koivu on this team imo. Yes Markov makes mistakes but he hustles, makes smart plays, tries hard out there and I've seen him lay out other forwards who get too close to our goalies.

I don't think we need to blow up the team tho. We need a Top 4 D-man and to fix Kovalev either by trading him or by talking to him.

We lack a Top 4 D-man and Team spirit. We get one of these and we are winning again we get two of these and we are catching those Damn Bruins who I will not have finish higher then the Habs! Not this year!

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Old
02-09-2009, 11:49 PM
  #45
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carbos team missing some carbs.

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Old
02-10-2009, 10:55 AM
  #46
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I've been cheering for the Habs since I was about 6-7 years old. I had to suffer through some of the worst Habs teams in history. This is nothing.

Sure, the team has stunk it up for the last few weeks but when you put in in perspective it's not all that bad. We're playing Calgary tomorrow and they're on a 4 game losing streak themselves.

Other than the top 4 teams everyone else is pretty much in the same boat.

Look at Ottawa's fall from grace. How about Pittsburgh? They have arguably the best 2 centers in the league and they are sitting in 10th spot! Canucks fans thought they were on their way to a cup when they landed Sundin but instead they went through a brutal losing streak.

I'd still love to see a guy like Lecavalier suit up for us. I still think the core of the Canadiens hockey team should be built around Canadian hockey players.

Also... If the opportunity to give the "A" to another player comes up my vote goes to Tom Kostopolous. This guys is a warrior. If everyone put in an effort like he does every night we'd be unbeaten.
Oh boy, this pretty much sums it up for me. When I started watching the Habs, they were great for many years, and then they went down under for many years, and now, for about 4-5 years, I've seen a steady progression of this team year after year. So a ten game drought doesn't really bring me down. I know a ten game period doesn't define a team. I know teams go through momentum shifts. **** happens, but good stuff also happens. The Habs will get out of this one, they've done it before, and they'll do it again. People won't be talking about the same team once playoff time comes. And if I am mistaken, so what, each new year is a chance to start anew, and rethink the formula. Another chance for success. And we have the youth to develop towards that, and the best is yet to come.

Maybe some of the people who complain so much, have either spent too many years watching the Habs dominate in the 50s-60s and 70s, and now just can't stand to see the Habs flirt with the abysmal results of the late 90s-early 00s, or they are fans who have grown up with the Habs for the last 10 to 12 years, and have never known the succesful Habs, and like most youth, are waaaay too anxious to see them dominate.

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02-10-2009, 11:24 AM
  #47
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As downtrodden as I about the team, clearly the first option is the one that makes sense. I would HATE to see Koivu or Kovy leave. A hot duo of them is more than enough to keep me happy. I think the poll should be (seems we have more polls than the stupid RDS ones):
when do you think this team will start to play like last year's? The ingredients are pretty much the same (we didn't have lang) and in fact we will have Tanguay back in two weeks. Also Gorges is better and Markov is still awesome (save a few gaffs, hence the regaining of form). What's missing:
- Plekanec- Akost - Kovy sixth sense and quick thinking
- Higgins being able to more than breakaway and go top shelf (when he tries five hole, he fails mind you)
- Hammer being in the right place (partially has to do with his idiot of a partner)
- Puck possession
- entering the O zone
- Goaltending being A++
- No Obryne...sorry, but he still belongs in Pee Wee (it hurts to watch him skate with the puck and see Hammer)

Then consider this:
- Dago has 10 goals now and is developping each game into a faster and more physical player
- Max Pac is EXACTLY the player we've needed for so long (and just think about who we've got coming up right behind him...mmmm rephrase?McDo, Subban and co.)
- Maxim magazine has gone from 4th line pest to probably the best player on the team right now. Obviously he's not Kovy or Koivu, but he's like a matured Patches. His acceleration and intelligence is insane sometimes. Even his shots. And thank god he's not afraid to shoot.


All of this can be fixed or exploited. As i said (and I guess Komi too)...it's in the head (between the ears). It actually is Xs and Os at this point. Fix that and the team will look SO different. Learn to adjust to what the other team is doing ffs. It's not JUST travail fort. It's travail avec la tete. With guys like Komi and Koivu, and the pride of Price and Kovy, there is more than enough time to turn this saga around and make for an interesting (with somber music "When we come back, a look at the dark stretch that almost cost them the season...) DVD of this year's Stanley Cup.

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02-10-2009, 11:32 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Maybe some of the people who complain so much, have either spent too many years watching the Habs dominate in the 50s-60s and 70s, and now just can't stand to see the Habs flirt with the abysmal results of the late 90s-early 00s, or they are fans who have grown up with the Habs for the last 10 to 12 years, and have never known the succesful Habs, and like most youth, are waaaay too anxious to see them dominate.
I think you're right about the last case. I'm 25 and so when I started being a Habs fan, we were winning Cups and every kid had a Patrick Roy street hockey mask, loved Kirk Muller and would wear those (sorry, but we are also a fashionable city...somewhat horrid-looking) Canadiens windbreakers that are (LOL) coming back into style. That's how much we thought yey, our team is good. Again that's childhood. Then in the teenage years, where you have mature emotions (well...ok... raging emotions), our team went down the sinkhole and we were the embarrassment of the league. We've had to live with watching (as mature adults and finally into young adults) HORRRRRID teams. It's only when Jose had that amazing season that we all started having something to be proud of and since then we've been waiting to be able to be like Det or NJ or Dal, to be able to say that every year our team will be really good and will compete (since our long tradition of winning has been told to us, not really felt). In the last few years, well actually mainly last year, our hopes seem to have materialized and that's when you get a slingshot of expectations that are so high that it's hard to retract from because you don't want to go back into those dark dark days and in Traverse, sorry Reverse. Anyway, I think we've arrived and while maybe Carbo ain't the best coach, for us, he's the last captain of a winning team and Muller was the star. Somehow for us...it just has to work out. It would be poetry. And in sports, that's often what it turn out to be, specially for this club.

edit:

Listen to Kovy's comments after last night: "Everyone just has to do his job". He's floating cuz there is no one to frigging pass to or create interference, etc. Kovy isn't floating. He's waiting for his linemates to do their job...give him space or get the F open.

As for sticking with the team, in the midst of this horror, I bought a new Habs hat at the mall yesterday (and I already have a couple). It was the last one available. All the other teams were full (of that kind...pinstripe black). Oh...and i currently live in Kitchener-Waterloo. So...stick with the team I will and apparently, I'm not the only one (and some are probably not even from MTL).


Last edited by habtastic: 02-10-2009 at 11:41 AM.
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Old
02-10-2009, 11:41 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by habtastic View Post
Listen to Kovy's comments after last night: "Everyone just has to do his job". He's floating cuz there is no one to frigging pass to or create interference, etc. Kovy isn't floating. He's waiting for his linemates to do their job...give him space or get the F open.
Bullcrap! Kovalev need to do his job!

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02-10-2009, 11:41 AM
  #50
loadie
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Option A for me.

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