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Melanson: the jury is out...

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Old
02-08-2009, 12:18 PM
  #101
Whitesnake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
I love how its Melansons fault since Price is having problems.

Did you guys ever figure out why we always had good goaltending in montreal even with average to below average goaltenders like hackett, huet and all?

Yeah, that's right.

Melanson
Thing is....if we ONLY go with stats, the average Hackett that you're talking about had those stats before joining the Habs:

1995-96 Chicago Blackhawks NHL 35 games: GAA: 2.40 / Save%: 0.916
1996-97 Chicago Blackhawks NHL 41 games GAA: 2.16 / Save%:0.927
1997-98 Chicago Blackhawks NHL 58 games: GAA: 2.20 Save % 0.917

With the Habs, he had seasons of :

1998-99 Montreal Canadiens NHL 53 games GAA 2.27 / Save % 0.914
1999-00 Montreal Canadiens NHL 56 games GAA 2.40 / Save% 0.914

Then the ordinary Hackett that Melanson turned out so great only played approx. 17 games per year for the following 3 years with Save % of .887, .904 + .926

I totally understand that he was our goalie during our darkest years....still if you look at Chicago's record for the last 2 seasons he was with them, it wasn't as great either. Seems to me that Hackett has started to turn it around before he joined the Habs. So Melanson might have helped him keeping it that way, but to say that Hackett is a product of Melanson is not true.

I could go even as far as to say that Huet also had turned it around before...

2003-2004: 42 games, GAA 2.43, Save % .907 for the Kings that were out of the playoffs and finished with 81 points, Luc Robitaille finishing 1st in scoring with 51 points in 80 games.....he did have superior numbers with the Habs but with a much superior team.....

I think everything needs to be put in perspective here. I love when people blame others that some put Theodore, Price and all our stars on a pedestal while the same peopel are doing the same for Melanson, Gainey and others....Melanson is part of the coaching staff and has every right to be judged the same way than the players and the rest of the coaching staff is. I'm personnally not saying to fire him.....but I'm not ready to state that he's the reason why all of our goalies suddenly deveoped into something great either....

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02-09-2009, 11:39 PM
  #102
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You might be right about Melanson after all. Tonight the guys on La Zone were talking about how he might be negatively influencing Price's style.

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02-10-2009, 10:45 AM
  #103
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Another flaw I'm noticing with our goalies time and time again, their inability to play the puck to a teammate. What is with that? It gets on my nerves so much seeing other teams whose goalies do play the puck to their own teammates effectively neutralizing any rush, but our goalies play it right onto the stick of the enemy and give up scoring opertunities(sp?) cause of it.

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02-10-2009, 11:14 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
Get François Allaire here and we'll see... everyone here will see.
Is Francois Allaire going to be the head coach, manage the lines, turn soft players into gritty team players, get the floaters to skate, correct the porous defense and manage the roster as is?

Yeah, it must be Melansuns!!1one!1

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02-10-2009, 11:20 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by airic000 View Post
You might be right about Melanson after all. Tonight the guys on La Zone were talking about how he might be negatively influencing Price's style.
I guess I'm just a bit ahead of them. It's now being discussed on RDS and around Montreal. Here's hoping that Habs' management does something before it's too late.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
Is Francois Allaire going to be the head coach, manage the lines, turn soft players into gritty team players, get the floaters to skate, correct the porous defense and manage the roster as is?

Yeah, it must be Melansuns!!1one!1
I've never once claimed that Melanson was the only problem. I was only referring to the goaltending issues. To each their own fault here. The lack of grit and dedication has been discussed in other threads.

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02-10-2009, 11:28 AM
  #106
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Price goes down early and doesn't challenge the shooter because his confidence is shot. It will come back eventually, he just needs to have a good game to build it back up. That's all. EVERY GOALIE WILL GO DOWN EARLY if their confidence is low.

As for Melanson, I think he's ok. He's not bad but he's not a god either. He's your average goalie coach. My only concern would be if he is trying to force his style on his goalie, rather than coach the goalie to make the most of their own style.

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02-10-2009, 11:44 AM
  #107
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I took this from another thread, but it really belongs here:

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Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
It's not all about Carey Price . Going back to my original comments, Melanson is a respected coach with a very good track record. Along comes Price, suddenly Melanson doesn't know what he's doing. Nonsense. Rollie is one of the best.
This is where I disagree. He's not one of the best. He hasn't done anything to get that recognition in my opinion. He's taken a Jose Theodore who won the Hart and Vezina and contributed to see him out of town (notice that I'm not putting the entire blame on him here). He took Hackett who basically stayed at the same level than he was in Chicago (someone posted the stats pre and post). Aebischer was doing fine in Colorado as his stats prove, and became a nut case in Montreal. So his track record was Huet who had decent stats but who also had confidence problems. And THEN came Price. Then Halak, who was doing great in the AHL, comes to the NHL and works daily with Melanson. What happens? He regressed! So where is that track record again?

All of them turned into the same style goaltenders. Butterfly only, going down on every shot regardless of if they were screened or not, anticipating instead of reacting to the shot, often being totally out of position on their knees instead of on their feet when it's easier to move laterally. All of them became vulnerable to high shots, all of them playing too deep in their net. And there is one common denominator and that's the goaltenders' coach!

I'm telling you, Price will be a wasted talent if they don't do something soon...

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02-10-2009, 11:59 AM
  #108
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Just a question.....do goalies and their coaches need to adapt to this new league? Is it normal that Carey still think that playing the "percentage" is enough in this league? To me, he has the same mentality that he had in Juniors and in the AHL. Obviously it worked, so he's probably asking himself, why the heck doesn't it still work? 'Cause not only the players are better but now they have more time to aim.....Playing the percentage might still work in some NHL games, especially when the opponent is started to know how you're playing. But it's a question of being able to adapt.....players seems to be able to do it, we'll see if Price can do it as well.

So will Melanson adapt his way of teaching to this new reality? Is Melanson going with his goalies's strenght and work with that or impose his way of seeing things.

Unfortunately, I don't think we can't answer some of those questions.....

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02-10-2009, 12:02 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
I wasn't trying to make a snide comment. Fact is, the Montreal media and the fans have overhyped and have an unreal expectation for this kid so far. This is why you have a thread like this, because people buy into hype and when they see reality, they view it as disappointment.
If you actually read between the lines of my comment, I am actually praising the kid, suggesting him/Halak and Melanson aren't the issue.
The forwards and Carbonneau/Muller/Jarvis are more of the problem.
Kind of like how all the Bruins' fans are drooling over an over-achieving, out-right trap hockey team?

I was at the game on Feb 1 in Montreal, and from the opening face-off to the end of the game the Bruins had 4 guys playing D.

Be prepared for the playoffs as you'll be sent back to reality.

Price has the composure, the positioning, the size and talent to be one of the best goalies in the league. The fact that he was thrown into the wolf's den right after an injury is what the problem is, and also the fact that NO ONE PROTECTS HIM.

He's not over-rated/over-achieving, if anyone is its Ryder LOL.

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02-10-2009, 12:03 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Just a question.....do goalies and their coaches need to adapt to this new league? Is it normal that Carey still think that playing the "percentage" is enough in this league? To me, he has the same mentality that he had in Juniors and in the AHL. Obviously it worked, so he's probably asking himself, why the heck doesn't it still work? 'Cause not only the players are better but now they have more time to aim.....Playing the percentage might still work in some NHL games, especially when the opponent is started to know how you're playing. But it's a question of being able to adapt.....players seems to be able to do it, we'll see if Price can do it as well.

So will Melanson adapt his way of teaching to this new reality? Is Melanson going with his goalies's strenght and work with that or impose his way of seeing things.

Unfortunately, I don't think we can't answer some of those questions.....
I can only go from what I've seen of him here in the WHL. Back then, he was staying on his feet more. His style resembled Martin Brodeur, more of a hybrid style as opposed to a strict butterfly. True that the shots come faster and the shooters are more accurate with their shots, but if your first question was about styles, his style has changed rather drastically and for the worse by the looks of things.

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02-10-2009, 12:04 PM
  #111
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I think that Theodore had a lot more problems than his goalie coach. First of all, I think that his downfall started when the league reduced the pad size. Theodore isn't that tall, which isn't good when you're a butterfly goaltender, so he used his pads to compensate the height when he got on his knees. I don't think we can blame Melanson for him being too short.

Furthermore, I don't think we can blame Melanson for Théo's personal problems. Blame Melanson for his family's betting and gambling ring? Blame Melanson for his legal dispute with his neighbor? Blame Melanson for his party lifestyle and his superstar persona that got to his head?


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 02-10-2009 at 01:12 PM. Reason: Removed hearsay comment.
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02-10-2009, 12:08 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermamoud View Post
I think that Theodore had a lot more problems than his goalie coach. First of all, I think that his downfall started when the league reduced the pad size. Theodore isn't that tall, which isn't good when you're a butterfly goaltender, so he used his pads to compensate the height when he got on his knees. I don't think we can blame Melanson for him being too short.

Furthermore, I don't think we can blame Melanson for Théo's personal problems. Blame Melanson for his family's betting and gambling ring? Blame Melanson for his legal dispute with his neighbor? Blame Melanson for his party lifestyle and his superstar persona that got to his head?
If you read my post (what was in brackets), you'd realize that I wasn't putting the entire blame on Melanson when it comes to Theodore. But saying that he wasn't part of it is putting your head in the sand.


Last edited by Habs10Habs: 02-10-2009 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Edited quoted post.
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02-10-2009, 12:09 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
Kind of like how all the Bruins' fans are drooling over an over-achieving, out-right trap hockey team?

I was at the game on Feb 1 in Montreal, and from the opening face-off to the end of the game the Bruins had 4 guys playing D.

Be prepared for the playoffs as you'll be sent back to reality.

Price has the composure, the positioning, the size and talent to be one of the best goalies in the league. The fact that he was thrown into the wolf's den right after an injury is what the problem is, and also the fact that NO ONE PROTECTS HIM.

He's not over-rated/over-achieving, if anyone is its Ryder LOL.
I know he's a Bruins fan but he doesn't have bad points. It's not because a Bruin say things that a Habs is saying that it suddenly doesn't make sense. Ranold26 thinks that Price was overhyped and he hates Carbo. I can show you A LOT of Habs fans who think that same way. Though I agree that his tone on the previous e-mail wasn't the greatest one...

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02-10-2009, 12:15 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I know he's a Bruins fan but he doesn't have bad points. It's not because a Bruin say things that a Habs is saying that it suddenly doesn't make sense. Ranold26 thinks that Price was overhyped and he hates Carbo. I can show you A LOT of Habs fans who think that same way. Though I agree that his tone on the previous e-mail wasn't the greatest one...

I can show you a lot of Hab fans that dislike Kovalev, Koivu, etc.
What's your point?

He doesn't have to like anyone on the Habs. He just need to keep his "comments" to himself.
I was so excited to go see the game (the 1st time I've seen Montreal play in Montreal), but at last, the Bruins with Julien = trap. I was falling asleep in the arena.

Its a boring style of hockey and pathetic way to win. Teams that trap don't have a deep pool of talent, hence why they sit 4 guys on D.

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02-10-2009, 12:24 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I know he's a Bruins fan but he doesn't have bad points. It's not because a Bruin say things that a Habs is saying that it suddenly doesn't make sense. Ranold26 thinks that Price was overhyped and he hates Carbo. I can show you A LOT of Habs fans who think that same way. Though I agree that his tone on the previous e-mail wasn't the greatest one...
Well said Whitesnake.
Carey Price is a damn good goalie, but the media and the hype made him into a superhuman and the fans bought into that. I've never have said he is a bad goalie etc, only that he was/is overhyped. Guys, he is still a kid.
As for Carbo, oh boy, don't even get me started. To me, he has mismanaged the roster. Just as an example, the PP was you club's bread and butter....yet Carbo has total destroyed any leverage/strength that your club had as an advantage. The line combos are horrendous and only recently started trying to use old line combos. Lastly, Saku Koivu could be a captain on many NHL clubs any day of the week..........the same can't be said for Alex. He is a scorer, when he wants to be...and is NOT a leader.

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02-10-2009, 12:28 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
Well said Whitesnake.
Carey Price is a damn good goalie, but the media and the hype made him into a superhuman and the fans bought into that. I've never have said he is a bad goalie etc, only that he was/is overhyped. Guys, he is still a kid.
As for Carbo, oh boy, don't even get me started. To me, he has mismanaged the roster. Just as an example, the PP was you club's bread and butter....yet Carbo has total destroyed any leverage/strength that your club had as an advantage. The line combos are horrendous and only recently started trying to use old line combos. Lastly, Saku Koivu could be a captain on many NHL clubs any day of the week..........the same can't be said for Alex. He is a scorer, when he wants to be...and is NOT a leader.
Last time I looked Carbo stripped him of his "A" as well.

The PP doesn't work because no one shoots, not because of the line combos.
You can't score if you don't shoot. Montreal is missing a pure goal scorer, someone that shoots the good shots, unlike Kovalev.

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02-10-2009, 12:30 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by ForzaHabs View Post
I can show you a lot of Hab fans that dislike Kovalev, Koivu, etc.
What's your point?.
Point is that in a freakin free country, everbody is entitled to their opinion and if there's one thing I hated at one point on the Bruins board was our inability to be able to have a conversation with those guys. So to be somewhat logic in all of this, if a Bruins want to comment on the situation and do it properly, why would he keep his comments to himself? Just thought that it's a Habs board, but that we were welcoming everybody's opinion.

As far as how they're winning and all your comments about the Bruins, well you're totally entitled to think whatever you want, it's our board and you can say whatever you want to say, don't worry, they are doing it on their board as well.......But I've seen some pretty interesting and exciting hockey from them this year.....And it's not like we don't trap either....

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02-10-2009, 12:31 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
Well said Whitesnake.
Carey Price is a damn good goalie, but the media and the hype made him into a superhuman and the fans bought into that. I've never have said he is a bad goalie etc, only that he was/is overhyped. Guys, he is still a kid.
As for Carbo, oh boy, don't even get me started. To me, he has mismanaged the roster. Just as an example, the PP was you club's bread and butter....yet Carbo has total destroyed any leverage/strength that your club had as an advantage. The line combos are horrendous and only recently started trying to use old line combos. Lastly, Saku Koivu could be a captain on many NHL clubs any day of the week..........the same can't be said for Alex. He is a scorer, when he wants to be...and is NOT a leader.
I appreciate you criticize our team but I'd appreciate if you didn't hijack this thread. It's about Melanson. There are plenty of threads out there about the state of the team.

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02-10-2009, 12:45 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
I appreciate you criticize our team but I'd appreciate if you didn't hijack this thread. It's about Melanson. There are plenty of threads out there about the state of the team.
OK, but the premise of this thread is basically "Melanson is ruining Price"............
That theory/premise/view is a fallacy. There are a number of factors ahead/in front of Carey/Halak that are impacting their play.....not the other way around.

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02-10-2009, 02:03 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranold26 View Post
OK, but the premise of this thread is basically "Melanson is ruining Price"............
That theory/premise/view is a fallacy. There are a number of factors ahead/in front of Carey/Halak that are impacting their play.....not the other way around.
If you read the explanations that I've provided in this thread, you'll see that there's a lot to backup that theory. Price has the talent to succeed and needs the mentorship, the proper coaching to go along his own style in order to develop properly.

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02-10-2009, 02:37 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Asterix View Post
If you read my post (what was in brackets), you'd realize that I wasn't putting the entire blame on Melanson when it comes to Theodore. But saying that he wasn't part of it is putting your head in the sand.
If Melanson scrwed up Theo why did he play even worst in Colorado losing his job to a below average NHL goalie. He had a brief resurgence late last year before becoming a UFA, for the most part in Colorado he was worse than late in his Habs career.

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02-10-2009, 02:54 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
If Melanson scrwed up Theo why did he play even worst in Colorado losing his job to a below average NHL goalie. He had a brief resurgence late last year before becoming a UFA, for the most part in Colorado he was worse than late in his Habs career.
The same could be asked about Aebischer and Huet. After the great coaching received from Melanson, shouldn't they be better players?

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02-11-2009, 11:58 PM
  #123
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The nightmare I had 2 years ago is coming true. I think he could have screwed up Price also. He's totally different goalie than one in Hamilton's Calder run or Team Canada's World Junior win

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02-12-2009, 12:04 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by GNick42 View Post
The nightmare I had 2 years ago is coming true. I think he could have screwed up Price also. He's totally different goalie than one in Hamilton's Calder run or Team Canada's World Junior win
No, no, no, Melanson has nothing to do with it...



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02-12-2009, 12:11 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
If Melanson scrwed up Theo why did he play even worst in Colorado losing his job to a below average NHL goalie. He had a brief resurgence late last year before becoming a UFA, for the most part in Colorado he was worse than late in his Habs career.
'Cause clearly Theo is not the greatest goalie mentally as well and it take him some time to correct on his own what was done to him? Then you did hear later in the season how the work that Hackett was doing with him was helping him....and to think that he's in any way responsible for the Avs loss in the playoffs didn't see him play. He's responsible for the way the Avs looked.

Then, he didn't look too great again this year, but then slowly but surely is going back to his zone again.

I'm personnaly not entirely blaming Melanson for everything that has happen, but I don't believe that he's the king of coaches either. Statistically, Hackett has already begun to turn it around before he came. Even the year before he was trade, Huet wasn't too bad himself despite playing for a lousy team.

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